GA - 8 dead after shootings at three spas, Atlanta, 16 Mar 2021 *arrest*

[MimosaMornings]

I am assuming the accommodations were more like a cot in a back room.

jmo

Yes, that is what I think.
The hours of operation were 24/7.

Hyun Jung Grant of Duluth had two sons, when she first started working they did not see her for a YEAR. I think the oldest son was in third grade when they moved from Washington to Georgia.

An entire year when your mother only works 30 minutes down the street!

The oldest states they have no other family in the US. (Is the father in Korea perhaps?)

So who watches, feeds, takes their children to school, sports, doctor, etc?

They went WEEKS without seeing their mother while the boys stayed in an apartment alone.

The sons couldn’t take their mother to and from work (since they have a vehicle)?

Is this forced labor?

JMO

 

[slowpoke]

Yes, that is what I think.
The hours of operation were 24/7.

Hyun Jung Grant of Duluth had two sons, when she first started working they did not see her for a YEAR. I think the oldest son was in third grade when they moved from Washington to Georgia.

An entire year when your mother only works 30 minutes down the street!

The oldest states they have no other family in the US. (Is the father in Korea perhaps?)

So who watches, feeds, takes their children to school, sports, doctor, etc?

They went WEEKS without seeing their mother while the boys stayed in an apartment alone.

The sons couldn’t take their mother to and from work (since they have a vehicle)?

Is this forced labor?

JMO

Not exactly the same, but this reminds me of “parachute kids.” This is when the parents, generally wealthy from from overseas (I’ve mostly heard China or Taiwan) who send their kids alone under the care of a relative, family friend, or even a caregiver paid to provide for such kids.

Hyun Jung Grant was a single mom. To me it sounds like she had the mindset of “I’m going to do everything and sacrifice for you, even if it means we must be separated.”(quote not mine, but from an article I read on parachute kids)

I don’t personally agree with this type of way of bringing up your child. But, one of her sons said this:
“Asked what he would say to his mom today, Park said, “You did a good job. You’ve done enough and finally get some sleep and rest.””

MOO

Atlanta shooting victim's son recalls the last moment they spent together

 

[slowpoke]

This WSJ article is behind a paywall, but they allow us to read the beginning of it. This was very sad:

“Seven days after Daoyou Feng was shot and killed at the spa where she worked, her body lay unclaimed in a morgue in the Atlanta area. The 44-year-old, originally from China, died alone in a foreign country that knew little about her. Officials here couldn’t find a family member to claim her body, even though her name made international headlines.”

For Atlanta Shooting Victims, American Life Was Often a Lonely Struggle

 

[Cryptic]

There is nothing said about being forced or coerced. Where are you getting your information?

I never said they were forced or coerced. Rather, I said that the arrangement was a "red flag" for trafficking.

Some of the businesses apparently had a sexual orientation. Yes, "employees" living at such a business is a sign (but not absolute proof of trafficking):
Spot the signs of human trafficking | Hope for Justice

In the end, trafficking in certain industries is a very big problem:Sex trafficking is behind the lucrative illicit massage business. Why police can't stop it.

Color me "cynical cinnamon", but the totality of indicators (employees living and eating on site, distinct possibility of sex oriented business) is not good news for the "employees"- at all.

 

[Betty P]

Yes, that is what I think.
The hours of operation were 24/7.

Hyun Jung Grant of Duluth had two sons, when she first started working they did not see her for a YEAR. I think the oldest son was in third grade when they moved from Washington to Georgia.

An entire year when your mother only works 30 minutes down the street!

The oldest states they have no other family in the US. (Is the father in Korea perhaps?)

So who watches, feeds, takes their children to school, sports, doctor, etc?

They went WEEKS without seeing their mother while the boys stayed in an apartment alone.

The sons couldn’t take their mother to and from work (since they have a vehicle)?

Is this forced labor?

JMO

We would have to see how much she was being paid and whether she was being charged by the spa owners for her job. That often happens. Workers are required to give a large chunk of their pay back to the employer for the privilege of being able to work. Otherwise, they're threatened with return to their home country.

Another recent report about the Nail Salons and Asian Spas

Modern slavery: Nail salons 'using trafficked individuals'

Regardless of whether a worker thinks these practices are ok, they're against the law in the US.

 

[Cryptic]

Hyun Jung Grant was a single mom. To me it sounds like she had the mindset of “I’m going to do everything and sacrifice for you, even if it means we must be separated.”

It is clearly possible that some people voluntarily live at massage parlors and also voluntarily go a year with out seeing their children for a year- though they live 30 minutes away.

It is also distinctly that there is one "and" too many. For example:

Sure, employee "E" lives at the 24/7 massage parlor (lots of people with back pains- wink, nod). But she actually chooses to live there. Rent is so cheap- and gets deducted from their pay automatically (cough, cough).

If you dont believe me, just ask "E" if she is exploited. (Se knows better to complain after what happened to "C").

Ok, "E" has not seen her child for a year, but that is also voluntary (Heck, do you think we actually exploit people?). "E" is just so dedicated to customer uhmm..... "satisfaction" and wants to "learn" all she can. She sure puts in the over time!

In the end, despite the possibility that everything is fine at the 24/7 massage joint, they wont be getting any employee referrals from me.

 

[slowpoke]

We would have to see how much she was being paid and whether she was being charged by the spa owners for her job. That often happens. Workers are required to give a large chunk of their pay back to the employer for the privilege of being able to work. Otherwise, they're threatened with return to their home country.

Another recent report about the Nail Salons and Asian Spas

Modern slavery: Nail salons 'using trafficked individuals'

Regardless of whether a worker thinks these practices are ok, they're against the law in the US.

Thanks for the article. I didn’t see where they talked about the Asian spas, though I’m sure the same signs can apply (as nail salons).

Regarding being “threatened to return to their home country”, it’s interesting to note that the WSJ article states:

“Of the six women born in Asia, four were U.S. citizens, one held a green card and one was a Chinese national.”

So, only one was a Chinese national.
For Atlanta Shooting Victims, American Life Was Often a Lonely Struggle

 

[nao]

Live in work spaces are usually communial, bunk beds shared living space, kitchen and bathrooms. It is like living with family and safe, since they are considered (it seems) outsiders. Rent is negligible since the space is already there. People of different cultures have different expectations and values. If these places were trafficking the Le are quite intelligent and would of noticed and the media would of jumped on it. Moo

 

[Betty P]

Live in work spaces are usually communial, bunk beds shared living space, kitchen and bathrooms. It is like living with family and safe, since they are considered (it seems) outsiders. Rent is negligible since the space is already there. People of different cultures have different expectations and values. If these places were trafficking the Le are quite intelligent and would of noticed and the media would of jumped on it. Moo

In the metro area where I live, some of the victims who got away from these schemes alleged a few local LE knew about it and did nothing. It seems possible some see this as a "victimless crime". I disagree, of course.

Has anyone posted this link?

All of the victims of the horrible mass shooting in Georgia deserve our sympathy and demand for justice, regardless of the circumstances.

Behind Illicit Massage Parlors Lie a Vast Crime Network and Modern Indentured Servitude (Published 2019)

She was 49, a recent immigrant and deeply in debt to a loan shark back home in China when she answered an employment ad three years ago that promised thousands of dollars a month, but offered no job description. She realized too late that she had been tricked into working at a massage parlor in Flushing, Queens, where besides kneading backs, she was expected to sexually service up to a dozen men a day.

Some of the clients were violent, and the boss charged $10 a day for her to sleep on a sofa in a room at the parlor where rats nibbled on her food. “The customers were very terrible,” said the woman, who, ashamed of the stigma of her former profession, asked that her name not be used. “After you perform a service, they would find an excuse to take the money away.” They would, she said, “do even worse things.”

In strip malls across the country, neon signs and brightly colored placards promise hot stones, acupuncture and shiatsu with photos of women or couples receiving relaxing shoulder rubs. But a traditionally Asian form of therapeutic relaxation with deep roots in big-city Chinatowns has spun off a different kind of massage parlor that has little to do with traditional remedies. It has exploded into a $3 billion-a-year sex industry that relies on pervasive secrecy, close-knit ownership rings and tens of thousands of mostly foreign women ensnared in a form of modern indentured servitude.​

 

[nao]

These women were slaughtered because a christian raised man felt he had the right to kill these humans because they worked in a massage parlor. He believes they are lesser beings, the cause of his problem. Moo. Maybe a different thread could be started to discuss the sex trade. Moo.

 

[dotr]

Megan Thee Stallion makes $50,000 donation after Atlanta spa shootings
''Megan Thee Stallion is joining a growing group of of stars speaking out and offering financial support amid a rise in attacks on Asian Americans.

The Grammy-winning artist, 26, announced she, in partnership with retailer Fashion Nova and journalist/activist May Lee, made a $50,000 donation to the Atlanta chapter of Asian Americans Advancing Justice. The organization "work(s) tirelessly to protect the civil and human rights of Asian Americans in Georgia and the Southeast," she said. ''

 

[slowpoke]

JMO...I don’t know if these women were victims of human trafficking, or if they were willing participants in the massage spa business (which of course has the possibility of these women additionally doing sex work).But either way, they have my compassion and sympathy.

If they did not provide illicit services, perhaps they felt limited in choices and opportunities due to their circumstances, and this place of employment helped them make a living. They knew the negative stigma of working there (thinking of Hyun Jung Grant telling her sons to say she worked at a makeup place). The fact that they were gunned down this way and killed just adds to the sadness for the hard life they may have had. JMO

 

[Cryptic]

People of different cultures have different expectations and values.

Very true. But that fact should not be used to explain away, or sweep under the rug red flag indicators regarding trafficking.

I have first hand knowledge that Mexico can have different cultural values and expectations. I also know first hand that "Pay for a Dance- and Probably More" type night clubs and bars have been part of Mexican culture for a looong time. A certain number may well feature live in "employees".

My family has sheltered at risk youths, including a young girl of Mexican descent. I would not allow her work at a Hispanic oriented "Pay for a Dance- and More" bar in the USA (and they exist 5 minutes from where we live).

Claims by an owner that any live in employees of the bar are really what- "one big happy family", statements that such places are cultural in Mexico, and that Mexicans can have different cultural expectations would not change my mind- at all.

But.... I suspect we see the world differently from each other.

 

[Gibbo214]

In the metro area where I live, some of the victims who got away from these schemes alleged a few local LE knew about it and did nothing. It seems possible some see this as a "victimless crime". I disagree, of course.

Has anyone posted this link?

All of the victims of the horrible mass shooting in Georgia deserve our sympathy and demand for justice, regardless of the circumstances.

Behind Illicit Massage Parlors Lie a Vast Crime Network and Modern Indentured Servitude (Published 2019)

She was 49, a recent immigrant and deeply in debt to a loan shark back home in China when she answered an employment ad three years ago that promised thousands of dollars a month, but offered no job description. She realized too late that she had been tricked into working at a massage parlor in Flushing, Queens, where besides kneading backs, she was expected to sexually service up to a dozen men a day.

Some of the clients were violent, and the boss charged $10 a day for her to sleep on a sofa in a room at the parlor where rats nibbled on her food. “The customers were very terrible,” said the woman, who, ashamed of the stigma of her former profession, asked that her name not be used. “After you perform a service, they would find an excuse to take the money away.” They would, she said, “do even worse things.”

In strip malls across the country, neon signs and brightly colored placards promise hot stones, acupuncture and shiatsu with photos of women or couples receiving relaxing shoulder rubs. But a traditionally Asian form of therapeutic relaxation with deep roots in big-city Chinatowns has spun off a different kind of massage parlor that has little to do with traditional remedies. It has exploded into a $3 billion-a-year sex industry that relies on pervasive secrecy, close-knit ownership rings and tens of thousands of mostly foreign women ensnared in a form of modern indentured servitude.​

Although it does not stop this kind of thing, completely, decriminalising and regulations, which are policed, go a long way to making it safer and not exploitative for the women.

 

[Cryptic]

These women were slaughtered because a christian raised man felt he had the right to kill these humans because they worked in a massage parlor. He believes they are lesser beings, the cause of his problem.

Why is his religion important?

A man of a particular religion using a particular religious justification killed 49 people at Pulse night club in Orlando.
Orlando nightclub shooting - Wikipedia

Would if be fair to mention emphasize his religion- or would you find that to be "distracting"?

 

[nao]

It is ok to discuss the sex trade but not the shooters belief system? His religion is what he used as his excuse. They tempted him. Moo
The mass shooter of the grocery store is having his origin and beliefs discussed. Moo

 

[Cryptic]

It is ok to discuss the sex trade but not the shooters belief system?

Pointing out the red flag indicators that some of the victims may well have been victimized twice- once by traffickers and once by a rampager actually pays respect to the victims.

I am not sure what the shooters religion does for the victims- especially when mentioned with out any supporting context.

Would it be OK to emphasize the Pulse shooter's religion, especially with no context such as how he became radicalized?

 

[nao]

Cryptic But you are emphasizing the Pulse shooters religion right now -twice

 

[dotr]

Atlanta-There’s a new surveillance video showing the cold moment when gunmen set foot in the first of three spas near Atlanta, started a slaughter and killed eight people-most of them Asians.
rbbm.
Shooting in Atlanta: The video shows the shooter stepped into one of the three spas before killing eight. - Florida News Times
''Seven of the eight killed were women. Six were of Asian descent. The crime combines race, gender, immigrant labor, and sex work stigma.

Investigators have not ruled out a hate crime accusation in the end, but they face legal restrictions in doing so. Federal law has targeted victims due to specific factors such as race, gender identity, religion, country of origin, sexual orientation, or suspects who have violated federal or constitutionally protected activities. I am asking the prosecutor to prove. To successfully prosecute a hate crime case, prosecutors usually seek concrete evidence, such as text messages, internet posts, or suspects expressing racism to witnesses.''

''After his arrest, Long told police that he was “sexually addicted” and shot because he was trying to sniff out the cause of the temptation, officials said.''

 

[slowpoke]

Atlanta-There’s a new surveillance video showing the cold moment when gunmen set foot in the first of three spas near Atlanta, started a slaughter and killed eight people-most of them Asians.
rbbm.
Shooting in Atlanta: The video shows the shooter stepped into one of the three spas before killing eight. - Florida News Times
''Seven of the eight killed were women. Six were of Asian descent. The crime combines race, gender, immigrant labor, and sex work stigma.

Investigators have not ruled out a hate crime accusation in the end, but they face legal restrictions in doing so. Federal law has targeted victims due to specific factors such as race, gender identity, religion, country of origin, sexual orientation, or suspects who have violated federal or constitutionally protected activities. I am asking the prosecutor to prove. To successfully prosecute a hate crime case, prosecutors usually seek concrete evidence, such as text messages, internet posts, or suspects expressing racism to witnesses.''

''After his arrest, Long told police that he was “sexually addicted” and shot because he was trying to sniff out the cause of the temptation, officials said.''

Chilling to see that photo of him right before stepping inside and ending lives.

He was trying to “sniff out the cause of the temptation”? Is that a typo by the newspaper? If not, I don’t understand his usage. More like “snuff out”, as in putting an end to, no? His reasoning is sickening. IMO