GA - Apalachee High School shooting, 4 dead, 9 injured, Winder, Barrow County - 04 September 2024 *father and son arrested*

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  • #1,041
No one is required to carry. Teachers are allowed to carry. If I were to go back in the classroom, I would. Thankfully, Ohio is one of the majority of states that allow concealed carry without requiring a permit. Being armed wouldn't be anything new or uncomfortable for me.
I support Ohio's new law that allows public school teachers who want to voluntarily have firearms in the classroom and the required training that they have to get if they want to have a firearm with them in their schools.

On the other hand, Ohio's public universities do not allow faculty and staff, or students, to carry firearms on their campuses. Any firearm has to be left secured in one's vehicle while on campus. And some public universities in Ohio don't even allow them on campus at all, even locked and stored in a vehicle while the employee or student is on campus.
 
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  • #1,042
If the prosecution is not going to present their cases against the shooter and his father to a grand jury until October, then I would think that the father's attorney will request a bond hearing before then? That's a long time for him to remain incarcerated, I would think, without a bond hearing.
 
  • #1,043
  • #1,044
It can be, but it’s not typical. When the dad said “hunting rifles,” none of those officers would think of an AR-15. So that sounds like a deliberate effort to mislead.
bbm
Excellent point, indeed. SMH.
 
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BEN HILL COUNTY, Ga. — The mother of suspected Apalachee High School shooter Colt Gray has been indicted on charges of elder abuse.

The Ben Hill County indictment, obtained by the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, accuses Marcee Gray of taping her mother, Deborah Polhamus, to a chair and leaving her there for nearly 24 hours.

She is charged with exploitation and intimidation of a disabled adult or elderly person, false imprisonment, criminal damage to property in the second degree, and theft. If convicted, she faces up to 20 years in prison.


I can't with these "parents".
 
  • #1,048
BEN HILL COUNTY, Ga. — The mother of suspected Apalachee High School shooter Colt Gray has been indicted on charges of elder abuse.

The Ben Hill County indictment, obtained by the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, accuses Marcee Gray of taping her mother, Deborah Polhamus, to a chair and leaving her there for nearly 24 hours.

She is charged with exploitation and intimidation of a disabled adult or elderly person, false imprisonment, criminal damage to property in the second degree, and theft. If convicted, she faces up to 20 years in prison.


I can't with these "parents".
$5,300.00 …. she was granted bond in April 2024 and released on $5,300.00 bond for the incident in November 2023. Let that sink in for a moment. Have to wonder if this might be why there are problems like this occurring? SMH. MOO
 
  • #1,049
No one is required to carry. Teachers are allowed to carry. If I were to go back in the classroom, I would. Thankfully, Ohio is one of the majority of states that allow concealed carry without requiring a permit. Being armed wouldn't be anything new or uncomfortable for me.

I think having any weapons in the room would be a horrible idea. The odds of an accidental shooting would be much higher than the weapon being needed for a mass shooting.

Also, kids with behavioral problems or developmental disabilities would be at a higher risk of the teacher using the weapon on them.

Bad idea, all around.
 
  • #1,050
BEN HILL COUNTY, Ga. — The mother of suspected Apalachee High School shooter Colt Gray has been indicted on charges of elder abuse.

The Ben Hill County indictment, obtained by the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, accuses Marcee Gray of taping her mother, Deborah Polhamus, to a chair and leaving her there for nearly 24 hours.

She is charged with exploitation and intimidation of a disabled adult or elderly person, false imprisonment, criminal damage to property in the second degree, and theft. If convicted, she faces up to 20 years in prison.


I can't with these "parents".

"Polhamus told Fitzgerald police that Marcee Gray had gotten upset after she refused to go with her to Barrow County to confront her ex-husband, Colin Gray.

“Marcee became upset and told Deborah that she was making her go with her because she was going to kill her ex,” the incident report states. “Deborah stated she refused to go and Marcee threw her up against the wall causing a cut on her left wrist. Marcee stated that since Deborah wasn’t going she was going to tie her to a chair and take her phone so she wouldn’t call anyone."

BBM. I have no words
 
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I bolded a part of your reply here....as it shows the negligence piece in perfect manner. The negligence is in a school district NOT putting in place secure procedures to prevent firearms from entering their school buildings. If we want secure school buildings, we don't have to look far to find out how a building is made secure. Of course, in life, there is no guarantee of safety, but look to the courthouses, federal buildings, TSA/airlines, and of course, many schools already in the U.S. to find out what is needed to provide for a secure building.

If a school district knows a bus has a mechanical issue that could cause an accident and the lives of students, and they fail to correct the issue with the bus, and there is an accident that costs the lives of innocents on the bus, that's negligence. It's the same with shootings. Schools know there is an issue where firearms and weapons can, and do, enter buildings, yet they refuse to correct the issue. In my opinion, that's negligence.
Can you clarify something for me? The dogs that came to my school were intended to prevent any firearms on campus. The school was aware of the potential threat and used resources to mitigate it, how is that negligent? How many resources do we need to protect our kids? Where does the line stop?
My school shooter was a brand new pupil who shot and killed a wonderful kid, our friend.
Every time a school shooting happens I wonder if those students will also have a "grieving" assembly like we did afterwards. Our dead friend's parents spoke to the entire school and it was gut wrenching to witness.
Then we went back to class and were expected to be normal people again.
 
  • #1,053
No one is required to carry. Teachers are allowed to carry. If I were to go back in the classroom, I would. Thankfully, Ohio is one of the majority of states that allow concealed carry without requiring a permit. Being armed wouldn't be anything new or uncomfortable for me.
How many hours at the range would be required of the teachers each year?
Will they get combat pay? Or do they require being wounded first?

If provided with a killing tool, how much training would a Spanish teacher need to be able to process a traumatic event and act correctly without hesitation?

Edit: This quote answers my question above. "It's nothing like training, but luckily the training gets you past that shock point to where you are able to function," Anderson County Deputy Timothy McCarley explained.
"Nothing prepares you for what your eyes actually see."
 
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  • #1,055
Can you clarify something for me? The dogs that came to my school were intended to prevent any firearms on campus. The school was aware of the potential threat and used resources to mitigate it, how is that negligent? How many resources do we need to protect our kids? Where does the line stop?
My school shooter was a brand new pupil who shot and killed a wonderful kid, our friend.
Every time a school shooting happens I wonder if those students will also have a "grieving" assembly like we did afterwards. Our dead friend's parents spoke to the entire school and it was gut wrenching to witness.
Then we went back to class and were expected to be normal people again.
This is all my opinion on the matter...and I worked in public school for years, focused on at-risk students. I've seen, know, and experienced just about everything a person can imagine when it comes to public school students.

I will also state my opinion that there is no guarantee of safety, anywhere, any time.

I know what a secure building looks like. Go to your local courthouse (in the U.S.) and walk in, more than likely you'll run smack dab in to an armed guard, or two, and the conveyor belt for your goodies, they might make you turn your cell phone on and change the screen, walk through the detector, and then get wanded if necessary. Go to the Airport and go through the screening process prior to boarding the plane, that's what it looks like. Enter any federal building, that's what a secure building looks like. Most often, armed personnel at the door, a conveyor for bags, keys, etc., a walk through detector, and a person with a wand if necessary based on the results of the walk through. I've heard all the arguments against this process, but it is what it is. If you want a secure building, do what the folks who have secure buildings do.

As for armed teachers, the answer is the same, for me, every time. When a shooter enters a building with a rifle, I don't care if it's an ar-15, or a bolt action 30-06, or a semi-automatic pistol, a revolver or two, or a combination thereof...that person owns the area they are in until they run out of ammo, the gun jams for some reason, they commit suicide or give up, or they are confronted with and stopped by someone. Armed personnel have a chance against an armed intruder with a semi-automatic rifle, or other firearm, unarmed people are at their mercy.

Procedures for arming teachers are in place in numerous schools throughout the U.S. Most, if not all, do not, and never would, require a teacher to carry a firearm. It's a personal choice in some schools, it is designated for administration in others, and there are schools where a few select teachers are chosen, and nobody else. (This approach, in my opinion, is not as effective as preventing the firearm from entering the building, though I do think armed personnel in school buildings is a positive piece of an overall prevention strategy)

I'll add, I do think it negligent to allow a school building to remain a soft target in this day and age, meaning, to NOT have armed personnel at the door and metal detection procedures in place.

This entire post is my opinion.
 
  • #1,056
The mother of suspected Apalachee High School shooter Colt Gray has been indicted on charges of elder abuse.

Marcee Gray, 43, has been arrested in Ben Hill County, for exploiting an elderly person after she allegedly bound her then-73-year-old mother, Deborah Polhamus, to a chair, stealing her phone, and damaging her home last November.

I get it that Colt was dealt a bad hand in life.
The deaths of the four victims are still on him, first and foremost.
Omo.
 
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  • #1,057
Everyone is clear that you can lock down a school so that no gun may enter and it still would not stop anyone from firing from outside of the school, right? (Cleveland Elementary School shooting, Springwater Trail High School). A closed windows does not necessarily save anyone.

Lock everyone in and they can't escape should they need to, either. This could be good or bad. Arming teachers also leaves room for a teacher accidentally shoot a student, or for a non shooter student to end up in possession of a gun. This could also be good or bad.

Would a clear backpack have helped? Not if the gun was wrapped to look like a "project". Would a metal detector have helped? Maybe, or maybe the gunman would have started shooting outside the boundaries. If someone wants to hurt others, they will find a way.

The blame goes to the gunman. Shooting people is not one's only choice. Unless the gunman was shooting someone who was actively attacking him or someone else, it's on him. Imo.

Though also, imo, if you aren't old enough to vote, you should not be tried as an adult.
 
  • #1,058
However Georgia managed to do it, I’m ecstatic that parental neglect and inadvertent encouragement of gun crime is not being ignored this time.

I imagine the Crumbley case was the breakthrough.

If these cases prevent another parent from dispensing guns like candy to children who are troubled, everyone will be safer.

Maybe even the troubled child can have a chance in life as he matures, without murder as a release valve for his pain.

JMO
I agree. Parents can't control their kids 24/7, but they can certainly control the guns in the household. Maybe careless parents with an easygoing attitude towards guns will become less careless, and maybe they will think twice before giving their children lethal weapons for birthday and Christmas gifts.
 
  • #1,059
I agree. Parents can't control their kids 24/7, but they can certainly control the guns in the household. Maybe careless parents with an easygoing attitude towards guns will become less careless, and maybe they will think twice before giving their children lethal weapons for birthday and Christmas gifts.
The problem is that giving a gun is an act of trust, and tempting while trying to reel in a boy who is getting disaffected.
Not sure if the AR was given before or after the police interview.
MOO If it was given after, it's definitely negligent homicide on the part of the father.
 
  • #1,060
The problem is that giving a gun is an act of trust, and tempting while trying to reel in a boy who is getting disaffected.
Not sure if the AR was given before or after the police interview.
MOO If it was given after, it's definitely negligent homicide on the part of the father.

The gun was given after. Conversation with family and LE was in spring. Gun given at Christmas.

The guns were stored in a home where there were, at times, children younger than the shooter. The father in this case knew that his son was struggling as they were once again changing schools, he was starting late, and the maternal side of the family was questioning his mental health. Why are the guns out and not locked up? No family should trust that a child with mental health issues would not do harm to self or others. Christmas was a long time before this shooting. It sounds like the situation degraded. In a world where many people want unfettered access to guns, people who leave guns unsecured and a shooting occurs by a child should be held to account by the law. It is ridiculous that time after time, mental health issues are occurring and the people who could stop violence from occurring do nothing different. JMHO.
 
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