GA - Kendrick Johnson, 17, Suspicious Death, Jan. 10/11, 2013, #1

['Ailina]

I also thought it was odd that the gym teacher didn't unroll the mat when he was found, because that would be my first instinct. Then I thought, maybe he touched his leg or looked in the other end of the mat and it became obvious to him that Kendrick was deceased.

(Snipped by me.)

Speculating -- I believe the coach pulled down the mat to free Kendrick and saw progressed decomposition, not a quiet-faced teenager who might have been resuscitated.

Unrolling the mat would've required turning Kendrick over and over and over again. Imagine the tracking fluid.

If I were there that day, I think I would've devoted an initial rudimentary effort to pulling him out of one end. And if that we're not easily done, I'd have asked for a box cutter.

OR...if by what I saw, I knew the boy could not ave been helped at all, I'd have stepped waaaaaaaaaay back to preserve the scene.

Moo.

 

[FrayedKnot]

Who says his head and arms were outside the mat?

Responding paramedics.

"On Thursday, attorney Chevene King announced at a news conference that the Patient Care Report from the responding paramedics shows Johnson's body was partially in a rolled up wrestling mat; but his torso, head, and arms were exposed."

http://lowndescounty.walb.com/news/...hnson-family-says-new-report-raises-questions

However the same article goes on to say that according to the SO, KJ's feet were "sticking out" of the mat when the students first noticed him. :waitasec:

The photos I saw show that he clearly was within the mat. And if in fact the mat he was in was pulled down to a horizontal position, if his feet were already sticking out, they likely would have slid farther out of the "tube" from the inertia. Not farther down into it.

So someone is not being truthful here.......the EMTs were there first and their report does not reflect that same findings as that of the LCSO report. The SO arrived after the EMTs, correct?

 

[FrayedKnot]

. Within 24 hours of finding the body, Lowndes County Sheriff Chris Prine announced that investigators had no reason to believe there was foul play.
Lowndes County Coroner Bill Watson agrees with the family, saying that the body had been moved before he arrived. He also told CNN he was not contacted until six hours after the body was found, although Georgia law states the coroner should be notified immediately.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/10/us/kendrick-johnson-death-irpt/

 

[IzzyBlanche]

From link posted way earlier upthread:



"...why would he try to reach all the way down into a mat to grab his shoes? The mat was about 6 feet tall; there was no way he could expect his arms to reach the bottom. And even if he did reach into the mat, how could he have fallen in? The center hole in the top of the rolled mat was 14¼ inches in diameter, according to the incident report, but the coroner measured Johnson's shoulders as 19 inches across. He couldn't even fit into the mouth of the hole, they believe, much less fall all the way to the bottom.

And what about all the other people who used the gym that day? Could no one see him? If Kendrick fell in arms first and hit the bottom of the mat, the Johnsons ask, wouldn't his legs have been sticking in the air? The Daily Times reported that the mats were 7 feet tall. At that height, they would have been tall enough to fully conceal Kendrick's body. But the incident report says the mats were only 6 feet 2 inches, and after Kendrick's death the Johnsons took photos of Kenneth standing next to the upright mats, all of which make them appear to be about 6 feet in height. Kendrick was 5-foot-10. The Johnsons argue that if he'd fallen in with his arms stretched out in front of him, then at least part of his legs would have remained sticking out.

...

One of the photographs included in the investigative report raises another question about Kendrick's death. It shows Kendrick's other pair of shoes, orange-and-white Nikes, in the mat with Kendrick, only they're not at the bottom of the mat where Kendrick would have been reaching. Instead, the Nikes are almost on top of him, lodged between Kendrick's lower body and the inside of the mat. If Kendrick was reaching into the mat when he fell, then how, the Johnsons ask, did a pair of shoes end up falling in after him?"

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id...-17-year-old-football-player-valdosta-georgia

 

[gxm]

Responding paramedics.

"On Thursday, attorney Chevene King announced at a news conference that the Patient Care Report from the responding paramedics shows Johnson's body was partially in a rolled up wrestling mat; but his torso, head, and arms were exposed."

http://lowndescounty.walb.com/news/...hnson-family-says-new-report-raises-questions

However the same article goes on to say that according to the SO, KJ's feet were "sticking out" of the mat when the students first noticed him. :waitasec:

The photos I saw show that he clearly was within the mat. And if in fact the mat he was in was pulled down to a horizontal position, if his feet were already sticking out, they likely would have slid farther out of the "tube" from the inertia. Not farther down into it.

So someone is not being truthful here.......the EMTs were there first and their report does not reflect that same findings as that of the LCSO report. The SO arrived after the EMTs, correct?

I don't think that anyone is not being truthful, or intentionally lying. I speculate that the coach might have tried to pull KJ out of the mat, exposing some of his head and/or arms, then realized how badly decomposed he was and knew there was nothing he could do. This is probably how the EMTs found the body. LE's description is probably based on the position of the body when first discovered. Please note that, to the best of my knowledge, there has been no evidence that would suggest KJ's body had been moved into the upside down position. To the contrary, the evidence suggests that KJ died in that position. Further, other articles describe KJ's feet as just below the top of the mat.

BBM

"Two students, who entered the building for gym class at around 10 a.m., noticed sock-covered feet just below the top of one of many gym mats that had been rolled and stacked against the wall behind the bleachers during the Christmas break, according to Prine. The students may have been walking on top of the roughly 700-pound, 7-feet-tall mats to retrieve school supplies and personal items, as interviews revealed that students commonly used the rolled-up mats to avoid locker fees, stated Edwards."

http://valdostadailytimes.com/local/x6223544/Timeline-of-a-tragedy/

 

[Elley Mae]

I think the shoes in the mat with him are shoes he was wearing and in the first moments he struggled to get out and kicked them off. jmo

 

[AzPistonsGirl]

if he fell in the mat as has been surmised, and other students entered the gym shortly after that, why didn't the other students hear him? He must have heard them in the gym - why wasn't he yelling, mumbling, wriggling, anything? if Kendrick died quickly as a result of positional asphyxiation, then he would not be making any sounds, I get that.

Someone upthread suggested that the foam mat acted as insulation against sound.

Does anyone know for sure if it would work like that? There is obviously still quite a large opening in the rolled mat - no way for any sound to escape? really? [assuming Kendrick was alive and able to make any sound].

I was glad to see Kendrick's story picked up by national news this weekend.

 

[Cyan]

Ken McElroy was a person a lot of people didn't like. Whereas this was a well liked teenager. Also sheriff has no relatives as students in the school (despite the rumors).

I'm quite aware of Ken McElroy...

But consider for a moment that just because a lot of people like one person, does not mean that there still are not a lot of people who don't. It's not a likely scenario and my thoughts about Kendrick's death have changed... but strange things have happened in our time that have made far less sense.

 

[Montjoy]

Perhaps he hit his head on the floor, either during his initial descent into the mat, or while struggling below? That might explain whatever blunt force trauma was indicated by the rent-a-pathologist, as well as the lack of sound while he was suffocating by being inverted?

 

[FrayedKnot]

I don't think that anyone is not being truthful, or intentionally lying. I speculate that the coach might have tried to pull KJ out of the mat, exposing some of his head and/or arms, then realized how badly decomposed he was and knew there was nothing he could do. This is probably how the EMTs found the body. LE's description is probably based on the position of the body when first discovered. Please note that, to the best of my knowledge, there has been no evidence that would suggest KJ's body had been moved into the upside down position. To the contrary, the evidence suggests that KJ died in that position. Further, other articles describe KJ's feet as just below the top of the mat.

BBM

"Two students, who entered the building for gym class at around 10 a.m., noticed sock-covered feet just below the top of one of many gym mats that had been rolled and stacked against the wall behind the bleachers during the Christmas break, according to Prine. The students may have been walking on top of the roughly 700-pound, 7-feet-tall mats to retrieve school supplies and personal items, as interviews revealed that students commonly used the rolled-up mats to avoid locker fees, stated Edwards."

http://valdostadailytimes.com/local/x6223544/Timeline-of-a-tragedy/

But if the coach frantically began pulling down the mats to get to Kendrick, then finally got to the mat he was in and began pulling on his arms enough that they were sticking out when EMTs arrived, as per their report, then why do the crime scene photos show KJ's sock feet just inside the rim of the rolled up mat?

Either the mats are not 7 feet tall, or KJ was much taller than 5'10", or someone stuffed his body back up into to mat, or who knows what? But all of the above cannot be true. Unless the body was repositioned. I mean, they didn't call the coroner for six hours. There was plenty of time to manipulate the scene.

ETA: I didn't suggest Kendrick's body was moved into an upside down position, but that if he was found in that position and the mat was pulled over into a horizontal position by the coach, Kendrick's body would not have slid farther down into the mat, but would have been moved outward to the opening of the falling end. Unless he was tightly wedged, then he wouldn't have budged either way.

The whole head and arms out vs. crime scene pics thing has me stumped........doesn't fit.

 

[FrayedKnot]

I think the shoes in the mat with him are shoes he was wearing and in the first moments he struggled to get out and kicked them off. jmo

Now that makes sense.

I am confused by the pair of shoes with orange laces. Those were not the shoes KJ had on and presumably kicked off, and they are also not the ones the SD said he was trying to retrieve (as worn in his basketball pic). So were they not even KJ's?

 

[Karmady]

But if the coach frantically began pulling down the mats to get to Kendrick, then finally got to the mat he was in and began pulling on his arms enough that they were sticking out when EMTs arrived, as per their report, then why do the crime scene photos show KJ's sock feet just inside the rim of the rolled up mat?

Either the mats are not 7 feet tall, or KJ was much taller than 5'10", or someone stuffed his body back up into to mat, or who knows what? But all of the above cannot be true. Unless the body was repositioned. I mean, they didn't call the coroner for six hours. There was plenty of time to manipulate the scene.

Someone posted a link upthread recently that said the mats are not 7 ft tall. Iirc, it was something like 6' to 6'3"

eta: it's post 279 and it's 6'2"

 

[FrayedKnot]

From link posted way earlier upthread:



"...why would he try to reach all the way down into a mat to grab his shoes? The mat was about 6 feet tall; there was no way he could expect his arms to reach the bottom. And even if he did reach into the mat, how could he have fallen in? The center hole in the top of the rolled mat was 14¼ inches in diameter, according to the incident report, but the coroner measured Johnson's shoulders as 19 inches across. He couldn't even fit into the mouth of the hole, they believe, much less fall all the way to the bottom.

And what about all the other people who used the gym that day? Could no one see him? If Kendrick fell in arms first and hit the bottom of the mat, the Johnsons ask, wouldn't his legs have been sticking in the air? The Daily Times reported that the mats were 7 feet tall. At that height, they would have been tall enough to fully conceal Kendrick's body. But the incident report says the mats were only 6 feet 2 inches, and after Kendrick's death the Johnsons took photos of Kenneth standing next to the upright mats, all of which make them appear to be about 6 feet in height. Kendrick was 5-foot-10. The Johnsons argue that if he'd fallen in with his arms stretched out in front of him, then at least part of his legs would have remained sticking out.

...

One of the photographs included in the investigative report raises another question about Kendrick's death. It shows Kendrick's other pair of shoes, orange-and-white Nikes, in the mat with Kendrick, only they're not at the bottom of the mat where Kendrick would have been reaching. Instead, the Nikes are almost on top of him, lodged between Kendrick's lower body and the inside of the mat. If Kendrick was reaching into the mat when he fell, then how, the Johnsons ask, did a pair of shoes end up falling in after him?"

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id...-17-year-old-football-player-valdosta-georgia

AHA! So it is possible that the 7-ft mats were closer to 6-ft? Then in that case, KJ's feet could certainly have been "sticking out" as I read in one account. But how would his arms have been sticking out if the mat was upended on the floor?

Unless, the coach pulled the mat down, grabbed Kendrick's hands (which would have been above his head if he were diving down into the mat) and pulled him far enough out to see that he was terribly dead , then stopped.

That could explain why EMTs reported his arms and head extending out of the mat and the earlier reports that the girls saw "feet sticking out", and then also the death scene pics where his feet appear to be just inside the rim of the roll.

 

[FrayedKnot]

Someone posted a link upthread recently that said the mats are not 7 ft tall. Iirc, it was something like 6' to 6'3"

eta: it's post 279 and it's 6'2"

This makes a WORLD of difference. I am the same height as Kendrick and Mr. Knot will be relieved that he is now excused from rolling me into a 7' rug this evening.

Or WILL he............?

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Perhaps he hit his head on the floor, either during his initial descent into the mat, or while struggling below? That might explain whatever blunt force trauma was indicated by the rent-a-pathologist, as well as the lack of sound while he was suffocating by being inverted?

If he was reaching down for his shoe, how could his head have hit the floor before his reaching arm?

Also, the blunt force trauma was on his neck near the carotid artery, not his head.

 

[Yoda]

This is a view of the mats. (I believe after the incident.) looking for the link.

 

[FrayedKnot]

How exactly would it even be possible for kids to "always be on the mats" when the mats weren't even stored vertically but instead horizontally prior to this?

But that was what the statement from the LCSD said.......I agree that much of what they said hasn't jibed with the evidence. The sheriff has some 'splainin to do...

I personally don't believe for a minute that kids hung out and walked around on those mats as a common practice.

 

[FrayedKnot]

This is a view of the mats. (I believe after the incident.) looking for the link. View attachment 38103

I really cannot say what the original formation of those mats was, but in my mind's eye, I pictured a greater number of mats clustered closer together to make a more solid surface upon which to sit or walk. This set up seems unlikely or at least not conducive to sitting/ walking upon and accidentally falling in.

This thing confounds me. I want to KNOW wtf was the EXACT set up, how EXACTLY KJ was found, when the photos were taken and why six hours passed before the coroner was called (in violation of GA law) and why there are THREE pairs of shoes. Plus about 10 other questions.

 

[mrsward]

When u roll these mats the bottom end would probably roll tighter than the top .. so as ur going in head first ur head and shoulders are lodging tighter ...someones either flung his shoe in there or hes climbed in messing around got his foot stuck hence pulling and lost a shoe and then gone in the other way to try to retrieve it.. miss judging the length..

 

[FrayedKnot]

. On Friday morning, The Times sat down to review the case with Lowndes County Sheriff Chris Prine, Capt. Wanda Edwards and Lt. Stryde Jones, who provided an overview of the investigation, beginning the day Johnson disappeared.

. “There were bleachers right there beside the mats and they climb up on top of them,” said Edwards. “...there were Skittles, Twizzlers, Mountain Dews and Dr. Pepper. You can tell they’d sit up there.”

According to Prine, the gym class’ coach frantically began overturning the mats to reach Johnson’s body after being alerted by the two girls who had been walking on top of the stack. Law-enforcement and medical personnel were dispatched at about 10:30 a.m., and school was locked down at approximately 11 a.m. Shortly after, the LCSO requested backup and additional technicians from the Georgia Bureau of Investigation.

http://valdostadailytimes.com/local/x6223544/Timeline-of-a-tragedy/?mobRedir=false


But weren't the mats only turned upend during the Christmas break? And Kendrick died the first day back?

So, um, how was there all this evidence of kids sitting atop vertically clustered gym mats if they were only rearranged during the school break.

:waitasec: