GA - Kendrick Johnson, 17, Suspicious Death, Jan. 10/11, 2013, #1

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  • #381
Honestly? I have no idea. I didn't follow either case as closely as this one. What I got from the reading I did do....I was shocked, stunned and surprised the lengths people in high places go to protect the guilty.

Anyho... My point being, nothing would surprise me and my lifetime of experience leads me to not blindly assume the story I'm being spoon fed is the truth

I live across the river from Steubenville in Weirton, WV (where the Steubenville victim is from). Sad to say that too many people tried to cover up the truth in order to help the "poor boys." There should have been a few more boys arrested; now the adults are going down. Hopefully they won't snag only a few scapegoats just to appease the masses. There was a cover-up from the start.


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  • #382
I was talking about the supposed breaking news in the OP that the school district's lawyer had supposedly confirmed new information that kendrick was not alone when he got into the mat. When I said it goes without saying, I was referring to the claim that the school district's lawyer supposedly disclosed this new and damning information, and not only disclosed it, but disclosed it only to the media. Not happening...jmo

Oh... That's different....( Said in Emily Latella voice), "never mind"


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  • #383
I live across the river from Steubenville in Weirton, WV (where the Steubenville victim is from). Sad to say that too many people tried to cover up the truth in order to help the "poor boys." There should have been a few more boys arrested; now the adults are going down. Hopefully they won't snag only a few scapegoats just to appease the masses. There was a cover-up from the start.


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And it was disgusting! I was unable to follow it super closely .... I feared my hair bursting into flames it upset me so much


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  • #384
And it was disgusting! I was unable to follow it super closely .... I feared my hair bursting into flames it upset me so much

Believe me, people around here were - and still are - PO'd because so many got away with it. IMHO the "attempted" cover-up goes all the way up to the county sheriff, who happens to be buds with the coach.

My dad (old school) says that the coach has helped a lot of poor kids. I say he didn't help them if he didn't instill morals into them.

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  • #385
Believe me, people around here were - and still are - PO'd because so many got away with it. IMHO the "attempted" cover-up goes all the way up to the county sheriff, who happens to be buds with the coach.

My dad (old school) says that the coach has helped a lot of poor kids. I say he didn't help them if he didn't instill morals into them.

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Your dad could learn a lot from you!


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  • #386
http://www.ebony.com/news-views/who-killed-kendrick-johnson-part-1-394#axzz2i8eDfaf0 Aug. 12, 2013
“…Wrestling mats were rolled up and standing vertically, as they usually were, in the back of the gym….”
Re the scene“…. Little evidence was gathered; no one was questioned; and no crime scene photos were taken. The body was eventually carted off to the Harrington Funeral Home, where an interested worker did snap the only photo extant of Kendrick's face in death.” BBM
So….

Who did above reporter Fred Rosen interview?
What did he read?
How did he conclude mats were rolled up and standing vertically, as they usu were?
How did he conclude “little evidence” was gathered?
How did Rosen conclude LE took no photos, perhaps because he personally saw none?
Because photos had not been released to the public?
Ditto, all LE investigational reports?
Ditto, photos of KJ’s face, which were undoubtedly taken at autopsy by MedExam’r.

Hmmmm.

One article pre-dating his, and another one after his.
http://valdostadailytimes.com/local/x6223544/Timeline-of-a-tragedy May 4, 2013
“While his investigators were tagging every item of note on their thorough search of the parking lot to the stack of mats where the student’s body was discovered,…”
“…and the autopsy report was subsequently released this week by the Georgia Bureau of Investigation.” BBM
http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/08/us/georgia-gym-mat-death/index.html Oct. 9, 2013
“A 15-minute video and nearly 700 photos taken by sheriff's investigators in Lowndes County documented the horrific scene.” BBM

Personally I cast a jaundiced eye on all sources: MSM, social media, rumor, expert opinion, spokespersons, family friends,
"anonymous sources," fed., st, & local government, "unnamed officials familiar with the case," etc.

JM2cents and I may be wrong.
 
  • #387
As I understand it, the initial reports from the sheriff's department were that no one was in the gym but Kendrick, because the surveillance video showed the one kid entering and KJ right behind him, but the sheriff said they confirmed that the other kid went directly to class, implying that KJ was therefore alone in the gym.

Now school officials are saying that in fact, there were other kids in the gym besides the one KJ followed in, as shown on the surveillance video.

It just seems common sense to me that if the surveillance video showed KJ alone in the gym, the sheriff's department would have released it long ago to support their theory of how KJ died. That excuse about it showing minors is hogwash; how many times a day are people on TV with their faces blurred out to conceal their identities? Including minors?

This just reeks of some sort of cover-up to me.

Are you referring to the gym class that came in after KJ entered the gym? That was reported as recently as last May. LE assumes that KJ had already gone into the mat at that point.
 
  • #388
Are you referring to the gym class that came in after KJ entered the gym? That was reported as recently as last May. LE assumes that KJ had already gone into the mat at that point.

No. I thought the official story/timeline was:

1. Surveillance video shows KJ entering gym behind one other student, who was confirmed to have gone directly to his next class.
2. As yet unreleased video showed no one else in the gym until the next class came in, implying that KJ was alone in the gym during that 15 minute window.

My understanding was that now school officials are refuting #2, saying that in fact there were other students in the gym besides KJ before the class came in.

This is my understanding of the discrepancy reported yesterday.


1. KJ was alone in the gym before the class came in. He had gone into the mat before the class arrived.

then


2. No, actually there were in fact other kids in the gym before the class arrived.

So if it's #2, how come none of those kids saw him go into the mat?

ETA: Yes, it seems that yesterday's reporting is not referring to the class, but to kids that were in the gym at around the same time KJ is supposed to have gone into the mat.

So again, why didn't any of those kids see/hear him go into the mat?

"Surveillance footage shows other minors inside a Georgia high school gym at about the same time authorities say Kendrick Johnson suffocated in a rolled-up mat while reaching for a sneaker, an attorney for the school told CNN on Friday.

The attorney's acknowledgement came in a response to a CNN open records request asking whether other minors were recorded in the footage inside the Lowndes County High School gym on January 10 between 1:09 p.m. and 1:20 p.m., a span of about 10 minutes after Johnson entered the gym."

http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/18/justice/georgia-gym-mat-death/

Has the exact time the next class came in been reported?
 
  • #389
Another thing that's always bothered me.

In the crime scene photos the corner where the mats were stored looks fairly dark.

According to the sheriff, the mats were moved from their horizontal position, where KJ supposedly left his shoes, to the vertical position.

So, how would KJ know which mat to find his shoes in?

I believe I read there were 21 mats. So in that little space of time he had time to look around and find the exact mat containing his shoes, fall in and get stuck?

Also how could even be able to see black shoes at the bottom of the opening in that dim light?

I'm starting to think perhaps he had help going into the mat.

Also, the sheriff said they found his books there. In the surveillance video showing him entering the gym, it doesn't look to me as if he's carrying anything. It's hard to tell from the back of course.
 
  • #390
http://www.ebony.com/news-views/who-killed-kendrick-johnson-part-1-394#axzz2i8eDfaf0 Aug. 12, 2013
“…Wrestling mats were rolled up and standing vertically, as they usually were, in the back of the gym….”
Re the scene“…. Little evidence was gathered; no one was questioned; and no crime scene photos were taken. The body was eventually carted off to the Harrington Funeral Home, where an interested worker did snap the only photo extant of Kendrick's face in death.” BBM
So….

Who did above reporter Fred Rosen interview?
What did he read?
How did he conclude mats were rolled up and standing vertically, as they usu were?
How did he conclude “little evidence” was gathered?
How did Rosen conclude LE took no photos, perhaps because he personally saw none?
Because photos had not been released to the public?
Ditto, all LE investigational reports?
Ditto, photos of KJ’s face, which were undoubtedly taken at autopsy by MedExam’r.

Hmmmm.

One article pre-dating his, and another one after his.
http://valdostadailytimes.com/local/x6223544/Timeline-of-a-tragedy May 4, 2013
“While his investigators were tagging every item of note on their thorough search of the parking lot to the stack of mats where the student’s body was discovered,…”
“…and the autopsy report was subsequently released this week by the Georgia Bureau of Investigation.” BBM
http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/08/us/georgia-gym-mat-death/index.html Oct. 9, 2013
“A 15-minute video and nearly 700 photos taken by sheriff's investigators in Lowndes County documented the horrific scene.” BBM

Personally I cast a jaundiced eye on all sources: MSM, social media, rumor, expert opinion, spokespersons, family friends,
"anonymous sources," fed., st, & local government, "unnamed officials familiar with the case," etc.

JM2cents and I may be wrong.

I read that Ebony article as well and discounted it because of the glaring factual errors. I agree with you about the jaundiced eye.
 
  • #391
  • #392
Another thing that's always bothered me.

In the crime scene photos the corner where the mats were stored looks fairly dark.

According to the sheriff, the mats were moved from their horizontal position, where KJ supposedly left his shoes, to the vertical position.

So, how would KJ know which mat to find his shoes in?

I believe I read there were 21 mats. So in that little space of time he had time to look around and find the exact mat containing his shoes, fall in and get stuck?

Also how could even be able to see black shoes at the bottom of the opening in that dim light?

I'm starting to think perhaps he had help going into the mat.

Also, the sheriff said they found his books there. In the surveillance video showing him entering the gym, it doesn't look to me as if he's carrying anything. It's hard to tell from the back of course.

BBM.

It seems that it would take less time for KJ to get stuck in the mat than it would take for assailants to subdue him, wrap him in a mat, upend the mat into a vertical position, move the the front-most mats out of the way, place the mat KJ was in at the center of the stack, and then replace the other mats.

IMO, KJ didn't fall into the mat. I think he was trying to reach his shoes and got stuck. It's a terrible shame that no one was with him because they could have run to get help or, if they were strong enough, pull the other mats out of the way to get to him.
 
  • #393
http://www.ebony.com/news-views/who-killed-kendrick-johnson-part-1-394#axzz2i8eDfaf0 Aug. 12, 2013
“…Wrestling mats were rolled up and standing vertically, as they usually were, in the back of the gym….”
Re the scene“…. Little evidence was gathered; no one was questioned; and no crime scene photos were taken. The body was eventually carted off to the Harrington Funeral Home, where an interested worker did snap the only photo extant of Kendrick's face in death.” BBM
So….

Who did above reporter Fred Rosen interview?
What did he read?
How did he conclude mats were rolled up and standing vertically, as they usu were?
How did he conclude “little evidence” was gathered?
How did Rosen conclude LE took no photos, perhaps because he personally saw none?
Because photos had not been released to the public?
Ditto, all LE investigational reports?
Ditto, photos of KJ’s face, which were undoubtedly taken at autopsy by MedExam’r.

Hmmmm.

One article pre-dating his, and another one after his.
http://valdostadailytimes.com/local/x6223544/Timeline-of-a-tragedy May 4, 2013
“While his investigators were tagging every item of note on their thorough search of the parking lot to the stack of mats where the student’s body was discovered,…”
“…and the autopsy report was subsequently released this week by the Georgia Bureau of Investigation.” BBM
http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/08/us/georgia-gym-mat-death/index.html Oct. 9, 2013
“A 15-minute video and nearly 700 photos taken by sheriff's investigators in Lowndes County documented the horrific scene.” BBM

Personally I cast a jaundiced eye on all sources: MSM, social media, rumor, expert opinion, spokespersons, family friends,
"anonymous sources," fed., st, & local government, "unnamed officials familiar with the case," etc.

JM2cents and I may be wrong.

Omg Fred Rosen?? Is this the same Fred Rosen who somehow managed to get a few terrible "true crime" books published? If so, the man does not even know the meaning of the term, "sources cited," as shown in the book about the Kent Leppink/ Mechele Linehan case.

I wouldn't even take anything he says with a huge cellar of salt--his lack of credibility is astounding, and he must know someone in publishing because his writing absolutely does not stand on its own merits.

I know this won't be a popular opinion, but I really do think this was a tragic accident that was handled poorly, not a covered up murder. As mentioned previously, one's shoulders become more narrow when at an angle...like raise one arm like you're trying to touch the ceiling and note how the shoulder socket can be sort of snuggled into your neck...your shoulders just got more narrow. Of course trying to crawl into a horizontal mat with squared shoulders is going to look a lot different than falling into a mat from the top with an arm or both extended. People were amazed that baby Jessica fit in that narrow pipe but she did--IIRC at least one of her arms was extended, allowing her shoulders to narrow enough to slide into the hole.

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  • #394
Omg Fred Rosen?? Is this the same Fred Rosen who somehow managed to get a few terrible "true crime" books published? If so, the man does not even know the meaning of the term, "sources cited," as shown in the book about the Kent Leppink/ Mechele Linehan case.

I wouldn't even take anything he says with a huge cellar of salt--his lack of credibility is astounding, and he must know someone in publishing because his writing absolutely does not stand on its own merits.

I know this won't be a popular opinion, but I really do think this was a tragic accident that was handled poorly, not a covered up murder. As mentioned previously, one's shoulders become more narrow when at an angle...like raise one arm like you're trying to touch the ceiling and note how the shoulder socket can be sort of snuggled into your neck...your shoulders just got more narrow. Of course trying to crawl into a horizontal mat with squared shoulders is going to look a lot different than falling into a mat from the top with an arm or both extended. People were amazed that baby Jessica fit in that narrow pipe but she did--IIRC at least one of her arms was extended, allowing her shoulders to narrow enough to slide into the hole.

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bbm, I agree.
 
  • #395
BBM.

It seems that it would take less time for KJ to get stuck in the mat than it would take for assailants to subdue him, wrap him in a mat, upend the mat into a vertical position, move the the front-most mats out of the way, place the mat KJ was in at the center of the stack, and then replace the other mats.

IMO, KJ didn't fall into the mat. I think he was trying to reach his shoes and got stuck. It's a terrible shame that no one was with him because they could have run to get help or, if they were strong enough, pull the other mats out of the way to get to him.

I agree with your first paragraph (although actually I think the mat he was in was at the back, not the center). Since so many here seem to think it's possible that he was able to fit through that 14" opening, I'm now thinking someone stuffed him into the mat rather than rolling him up in it.

My understanding is that the news reports yesterday are indicating that there were other kids in the gym at the time he got stuck. Not after.
 
  • #396
OK, let's say that the sheriff's version is correct, he went in trying to reach his shoe and got stuck.

How did the blood get on his chest? Sorry to be graphic, but my understanding is if he died from positional asphyxia he would have bled from his nose and mouth and possibly eyes.

If he was upside down, how is blood on his chest possible?
 
  • #397
If he was upside down, how is blood on his chest possible?

I could think of several ways -- but I would like to see the context of the statement. Would you happen to recall in which article this was mentioned? (Not doubting for a second that you read this, but I'd like to see what exactly was said, and by whom; tia.)
 
  • #398
Omg Fred Rosen?? Is this the same Fred Rosen who somehow managed to get a few terrible "true crime" books published? ...
I wouldn't even take anything he says with a huge cellar of salt--his lack of credibility is astounding, and he must know someone in publishing because his writing absolutely does not stand on its own merits.

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BBM

flourish -

I googled Amazon & his name & found 10+ t/crime books authored by Fred Rosen. IDK if it is the same Fred Rosen, since I saw no further info about him w Ebony article. Last entry on his FB was from Jan 2012, about a TV t/c show appearance.

Don't take it even with a huge cellar of salt, you say? LOL
 
  • #399
Here is Kendrick's father attempting it:

kenneth_mat_gallery-image_31015.png


Source: http://www.ebony.com/photos/news-views/who-killed-kendrick-johnson-photos-405#photo-2

This sort of photograph is provocative, but I do not consider it as good evidence. It reminds me of when Johnnie Cochrane Jr. had OJ try on a (/one of his own) gloves, saying "If it doesn't fit, you must acquit."
 
  • #400
There was that other case too, years ago where the unconscious girl was gang raped on a pool table, with a que, recorded by the sheriffs son IIRC.

Honestly? I have no idea. I didn't follow either case as closely as this one. What I got from the reading I did do....I was shocked, stunned and surprised the lengths people in high places go to protect the guilty.

Anyho... My point being, nothing would surprise me and my lifetime of experience leads me to not blindly assume the story I'm being spoon fed is the truth

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The cover-up... Twisting... Case of the girl raped with a pool cue occurred in the area in which I live...

It really opened my eyes to the level of deceit/CYA that our officials will stoop to to avoid responsibility of "deeds"...

The Steubenville case is another one which I am following... And have found that there is corruption in EVERY field/profession/etc....

so... I continue to follow investigations which do not meet the standards I feel should be carried out by officials...

All JMO...
 
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