I think it would be natural human reaction to move/check him, even with the smell of decomp. MOST humans don't process "what that smell is" to mean death and decomp immediately. You have to have smelled it before to know what it is, I think. JMO!
GA - Kendrick Johnson, 17, Suspicious Death, Jan. 10/11, 2013, #2
- Thread starter Salem
- Start date
- Status
Agree. I think it would be a natural instinct to move him in this situation, even if the gym teacher was pretty sure he was dead. Especially when the person is a teenager, his body is in a school, in a gym mat and totally obscured. I think the adult in that situation couldn't help but do what he did. Not sure he would have distinguished between the smell of vomit and blood v. decomp. But even if he did, I think he would have understandably did what he did regardless. jmo
Reader
New Member
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2004
- Messages
- 7,033
- Reaction score
- 110
BBM
Yes, the school is responsible for the safety of the students while they are in their care, including making sure equipment is stored and used safely.
The complaint about the videos is that the school was allowed to produce as evidence what THEY selected to give to LE, when it should have been LE that made sure they had all the videos from all cameras to examine. Some of the latest videos show students there with Kendrick and after hours, when we were originally told he was in the gym alone.
It was still the law that the coroner be notified when the body was found, not almost 6 hours later. The sheriff admitted that. Apparently he was important enough that he was made to change his statement which made complaints about the investigation.
The fact that GBI was present during the collection of evidence is what makes the overlooking of evidence surprising to me. It has already been pointed out the various items that were not collected and tested which should have been according to their own procedures and other experts in LE.
The sheriff announced the result of HIS findings that very day, stating there was no danger to other students and the death was an accident. It seems to me that was premature since, as you say, the investigation was not complete at that time. How did he know what the results of the autopsy and testing of the evidence would be?
As far as the clothes and organs, we understand the reason these actions were taken. The problem is not giving the parents an explanation when it happened so bringing up questions in their minds about what happened since they are not familiar with these procedures. Particularly with the organs, they should have been advised of the reason they were not in the body prior to his funeral, not be subjected to the shock they had when the 2nd autopsy was done.
another excellent article from the valdosta daily times . Anyone who thinks the video is hinky or that the school didn't give it up right away, etc. needs to read it. It also has an embedded video with a voiceover which explains the, imo, manufactured issues with the video, timestamps, etc. I am so glad to see that there's still some actual journalism in this country. CNN, et al. should be embarassed and take a lesson.
jmo
The Times has spent numerous hours reviewing the video and case reports released recently by court order. The Times has discovered video footage of Kendrick Johnson in another part of the school then followed his path as he made his way to the gymnasium.
In reviewing this footage, The Times found additional video with time stamps, and discovered the reason time stamps are missing from some of the video. Times research also reveals that the school’s video time stamps were not synchronized, but there is no apparent discrepancy in Johnson’s path from one part of the school to the old gymnasium.
This is the first part of a two-part series reviewing the videos and the case file into the death of the LHS student, a death which a state autopsy ruled accidental, but a family-sponsored autopsy ruled non-accidental. The second part of this series is scheduled to run in Friday’s editions of The Times.
http://www.valdostadailytimes.com/local/x1267064755/Kendrick-s-Final-Walk
jmo
The Times has spent numerous hours reviewing the video and case reports released recently by court order. The Times has discovered video footage of Kendrick Johnson in another part of the school then followed his path as he made his way to the gymnasium.
In reviewing this footage, The Times found additional video with time stamps, and discovered the reason time stamps are missing from some of the video. Times research also reveals that the school’s video time stamps were not synchronized, but there is no apparent discrepancy in Johnson’s path from one part of the school to the old gymnasium.
This is the first part of a two-part series reviewing the videos and the case file into the death of the LHS student, a death which a state autopsy ruled accidental, but a family-sponsored autopsy ruled non-accidental. The second part of this series is scheduled to run in Friday’s editions of The Times.
http://www.valdostadailytimes.com/local/x1267064755/Kendrick-s-Final-Walk
SBM
Respectfully, if a school has appropriate procedures and follows them,
no student at a school will ever get hurt?
And/or if a student is injured, the school is responsible?
Thx in adv.
SBM BBM
Many posts continue to comment along these bolded lines, but I've missed the sheriff annnouncing the results of his findings that very day.
Respectfully, a link to
- sheriff's announcement, either by his press/media release, or
- video showing sheriff stating (or sheriff's public info officer)
saying that his investigation concluded very day it was an accident.
Not a link w. -
- reporter saying sheriff said that, or
- family, family's attorney, community activist, friend, neighbor, etc. or anyone else, other than the sheriff, saying that.
Thx in adv.:seeya:
iSleuth
New Member
- Joined
- May 9, 2012
- Messages
- 891
- Reaction score
- 5
http://www.wctv.tv/home/headlines/Body-Found-at-Local-High-School-186489661.htmlLowndes
Lowndes County , GA - January 12, 2013
Press Release: Lowndes County Sheriff's Office
The following has been released by Sheriff Chris Prine;
County Sheriff’s Department and the Lowndes County Schools Release
Valdosta, GA - “We are deeply saddened that the body of a Lowndes High student was discovered today on the LHS campus,” said Superintendent Wes Taylor. “Our hearts are burdened for the family, friends, students, staff, and our community.”
The Lowndes County Sheriff’s Office and emergency medical personnel were immediately called to the scene.
Under the supervision of Sheriff Chris Prine, the Lowndes County Sheriff’s Office is leading the investigation with the assistance of the GBI. The investigative team remained on the scene for several hours collecting evidence and interviewing witnesses.
Although the exact cause of death is yet to be determined, as of this stage of the investigation, nothing has been discovered to indicate foul play was involved, according to Sheriff Prine. An autopsy will be conducted on Monday by the Georgia Bureau of Investigation medical examiner’s office to attempt to determine an exact cause of death.
“We are confident that the campus of Lowndes High School is safe for the return of students on Monday,” said Sheriff Prine.
The Lowndes County Schools—in cooperation with the Lowndes County Sheriff’s Office and in consideration of the family—will not be releasing the name of the deceased at this time.
Statement from Lowndes County Schools
The Lowndes County Schools regrets that one of our students from Lowndes High School is deceased.
The appropriate authorities are investigating.
We will release further information as it is confirmed.
Classes are continuing at Lowndes High, and all schools will dismiss at their regular times today.
No schools are under lockdown.
The Lowndes County Sheriff's Office confirms that a body was found at Lowndes High School.
They are currently investigating the case and have not ruled out homicide.
We have reporters working to bring you more information as it becomes available; stay with WCTV for the latest updates.
Kimberlyd125
Softball is for everyone. Fast pitch is for athlet
- Joined
- May 18, 2009
- Messages
- 16,167
- Reaction score
- 51
Exactly! They DID NOT announce their results as you stated in the post above.
They simply did not.
But several people keep insisting they did.
From the above link:
Although the exact cause of death is yet to be determined, as of this stage of the investigation, nothing has been discovered to indicate foul play was involved, according to Sheriff Prine.
It's right there. Yet to be determined means no results given. Simple.
Kimberlyd125
Softball is for everyone. Fast pitch is for athlet
- Joined
- May 18, 2009
- Messages
- 16,167
- Reaction score
- 51
Yet to be determined
At this stage
Nothing has been discovered to indicate
All really important words.
They didn't "conclude" it was an accident right away. There was just nothing yet at that stage to indicate it was a crime. It was an open and ongoing investigation. They made that clear.
At this stage
Nothing has been discovered to indicate
All really important words.
They didn't "conclude" it was an accident right away. There was just nothing yet at that stage to indicate it was a crime. It was an open and ongoing investigation. They made that clear.
iSleuth
New Member
- Joined
- May 9, 2012
- Messages
- 891
- Reaction score
- 5
Yes
This is one reason security is in place 24/7 and signs re. NO skate boarding etc. near exterior stairs.
Anything that happens on campus- physical plant, or well being of its students falls directly to school, teachers, staff, admin and district supervision. Please, parents know your rights! Read/memorize the school Handbook, they are all online by district k-12.
No students should be playing in a gym or in any part of the facility, fields or the building unsupervised for instance and god forbid an accident could occur!
People have misunderstood me- of course you the teacher must attend immediately to the situation of any accident and students. If an accident occurs and you are the only faculty or staff present while you attend to the emergency by priority....of course you would attend to the victim..but you can't even leave to get emergency help at times. You then have to send for help.
I have attended to a (very )few emergencies in my classroom,( a student was sitting in my US History class pulling out her eyelashes and scratching her arms to the point of bleeding) and had to send one student to nurse, and another to social worker while I stayed with the student and the rest of my class of 22. A few others, a seizure here, a disciplinary matter or two there, my own nut allergy. also, I am certified to teach in several departments, and levels I am also certified in CPR and something called Therapeutic Crisis Intervention. (very helpful)
Schools have every responsibility and it is scary when you think about it. But because teachers and admins are generally hyper-vigilant party poopers accidental unattended deaths at school should be 0 =rare.
iSleuth
New Member
- Joined
- May 9, 2012
- Messages
- 891
- Reaction score
- 5
I am not in the camp that they publicly ruled an accident that very day. I think they were carefully crafting that perception that day. :-X But, IMO Yet to be determined is nowhere. Not proof of foul play or accidental death. They had not ruled out homicide either.
BeginnersLuck
New Member
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2012
- Messages
- 4,003
- Reaction score
- 54
Accidental deaths at schools are extremely rare. This was a freak accident, in a high school of over 3000 students and 170 faculty. Every student can't be accompanied to class, their lockers or the bathroom. Camera's can't cover every square inch of the school.
Accidental deaths occur in sports activities, but they don't stop playing or ban the sport nor do they accuse every kid on the team and the coaches of conspiracy to murder the student. Although there probably are cases out there where this has been speculated.
What makes this so difficult to comprehend, is the freak circumstances of the death and no witnesses. Freak accidents happen every day though and I'm sure it's hard for loved ones to come to grips with a unusual accident that results in death. In other deaths, such a suicide, I have seen many families that refuse to accept their loved one took their life, especially if there are no warning signs or note left. I've seen the exact same picking apart of the investigation and accusations of conspiracy. Sudden deaths of loved ones with no witnesses are very hard to accept.
There are always bits and pieces that can be pulled out of a lengthy investigation and turned around to arouse suspicion. There are second opinions that differ. It doesn't change the direction the facts and evidence lead though, when all the pieces are put together.
The DOJ's findings will not stop this. It has already been made clear that nothing will be laid to rest until someone is convicted of murdering Kendrick, regardless of where the facts and evidence lead.
Accidental deaths occur in sports activities, but they don't stop playing or ban the sport nor do they accuse every kid on the team and the coaches of conspiracy to murder the student. Although there probably are cases out there where this has been speculated.
What makes this so difficult to comprehend, is the freak circumstances of the death and no witnesses. Freak accidents happen every day though and I'm sure it's hard for loved ones to come to grips with a unusual accident that results in death. In other deaths, such a suicide, I have seen many families that refuse to accept their loved one took their life, especially if there are no warning signs or note left. I've seen the exact same picking apart of the investigation and accusations of conspiracy. Sudden deaths of loved ones with no witnesses are very hard to accept.
There are always bits and pieces that can be pulled out of a lengthy investigation and turned around to arouse suspicion. There are second opinions that differ. It doesn't change the direction the facts and evidence lead though, when all the pieces are put together.
The DOJ's findings will not stop this. It has already been made clear that nothing will be laid to rest until someone is convicted of murdering Kendrick, regardless of where the facts and evidence lead.
iSleuth
Re you post 787, thank you very much for the link, but I got a not-found-or-broken message so could not read the original. From your quote from it:
"Press Release: Lowndes County Sheriff's Office
"The following has been released by Sheriff Chris Prine;
County Sheriff’s Department and the Lowndes County Schools Release"
"....Although the exact cause of death is yet to be determined, as of this stage of the investigation, nothing has been discovered to indicate foul play was involved, according to Sheriff Prine. An autopsy will be conducted on Monday by the Georgia Bureau of Investigation medical examiner’s office to attempt to determine an exact cause of death...." BBM SBM
Yes, agreed that the release leaves open the cause of death and manner of death.
Seems to me like that's the way it should be, because it's an open investigation.
Does not necessarily mean sheriff found anyhing that he is trying to coverup.
Appropriately after that Jan 12 release, evd was collected and analyzed, interviews conducted etc. IIRC findings of the official rpt were not released until May.
That said I would still like to see a link to the actual unabridged press release itself, as it is not clear to me whether "[content] ... according to Sheriff Prine" is wording from the press release, or rewording of the reporter.
BTW iSleuth, thanks for being a teacher. Over the years, I had a lot of great teachers and some absolutely fantastic. Statistically speaking I must have a couple so-so teachers, but I don't recall them.
And thank you, pearl, and any other teachers here.
JM2cts and I may be wrong.
Re you post 787, thank you very much for the link, but I got a not-found-or-broken message so could not read the original. From your quote from it:
"Press Release: Lowndes County Sheriff's Office
"The following has been released by Sheriff Chris Prine;
County Sheriff’s Department and the Lowndes County Schools Release"
"....Although the exact cause of death is yet to be determined, as of this stage of the investigation, nothing has been discovered to indicate foul play was involved, according to Sheriff Prine. An autopsy will be conducted on Monday by the Georgia Bureau of Investigation medical examiner’s office to attempt to determine an exact cause of death...." BBM SBM
Yes, agreed that the release leaves open the cause of death and manner of death.
Seems to me like that's the way it should be, because it's an open investigation.
Does not necessarily mean sheriff found anyhing that he is trying to coverup.
Appropriately after that Jan 12 release, evd was collected and analyzed, interviews conducted etc. IIRC findings of the official rpt were not released until May.
That said I would still like to see a link to the actual unabridged press release itself, as it is not clear to me whether "[content] ... according to Sheriff Prine" is wording from the press release, or rewording of the reporter.
BTW iSleuth, thanks for being a teacher. Over the years, I had a lot of great teachers and some absolutely fantastic. Statistically speaking I must have a couple so-so teachers, but I don't recall them.
And thank you, pearl, and any other teachers here.
JM2cts and I may be wrong.
Today's installment from the VDT. The most interesting part to me dispelled the rumor that the coroner changed his "critical" report to one less critical due to some sort of pressure. Turns out that the FIRST report, faxed on Jan 15 is the unsigned, undated more vague report, and the SECOND report is the one that talks about the scene being compromised.
italics by me
The case file also contained an unsigned and undated report from Lowndes County Coroner Bill Watson that was faxed to the sheriff’s office Jan. 15. A second signed and dated report exists, but it was not in the case file.
The first report includes limited information, but Watson does make a note that he was not notified by investigators until 3:45 p.m. on Jan. 11, more than six hours after Johnson’s body was found.
* * *
The coroner’s second report was made after the body was released to the Georgia Bureau of Investigation for an official autopsy on Jan. 14. Watson signed and dated the report Jan. 22. He claimed the scene where Kendrick’s body was found “had been compromised and that there was no cooperation from law enforcement on the scene.”
He also stated the integrity of the investigation was compromised on Jan. 13 “by the opening of the sealed (body) bag and exhibiting the dead body to the father.”
Watson told The Times that while the scene where the body was found had been compromised, the conclusions of the investigators “didn’t leave anything out.”
http://www.valdostadailytimes.com/local/x1267066500/Where-was-Kendrick
italics by me
The case file also contained an unsigned and undated report from Lowndes County Coroner Bill Watson that was faxed to the sheriff’s office Jan. 15. A second signed and dated report exists, but it was not in the case file.
The first report includes limited information, but Watson does make a note that he was not notified by investigators until 3:45 p.m. on Jan. 11, more than six hours after Johnson’s body was found.
* * *
The coroner’s second report was made after the body was released to the Georgia Bureau of Investigation for an official autopsy on Jan. 14. Watson signed and dated the report Jan. 22. He claimed the scene where Kendrick’s body was found “had been compromised and that there was no cooperation from law enforcement on the scene.”
He also stated the integrity of the investigation was compromised on Jan. 13 “by the opening of the sealed (body) bag and exhibiting the dead body to the father.”
Watson told The Times that while the scene where the body was found had been compromised, the conclusions of the investigators “didn’t leave anything out.”
http://www.valdostadailytimes.com/local/x1267066500/Where-was-Kendrick
Schools are liable legally for an injured or dead student. Whether the school would be responsible would depend on the situation. If a student died due to an obvious negligence of the school, such as a reported broken water drainage grate that a student falls into, the school would be responsible because the broken grate was reported. School systems continually assess possible danger to students. A system is also at the mercy of what a student CHOOSES to do. A system can make all the safeguards possible, but some students will not follow rules or refrain from doing not well-thought-out actions. I firmly believe KJ's death to be accidental. The gym mats were usually stored on their sides. They just happened to be stored vertically for the holidays probably so the gym floor could be cleaned. Cleaning the gym floor during the holidays is common. Hardwood floors are expensive so they tend to be well-maintained. The mats had probably been stored vertically before. They have been stored vertically at the school where I taught. IIRC, KJ was found by another student climbing on the mats so it had happened before without a tragedy. I can guarantee those mats will never be stored vertically again because it is now a known danger.
The school is liable for the simple fact that KJ died while on campus. The school is not responsible because KJ chose to try to get his shoes out of a mat.
The above is my opinion only.
SBM BBM
Ms Pearl,
You distinguish the terms liable legally vs. responsible. I'm not clear on how you see the difference.
Hypo: With cafeteria provided butter knife in hand, a student goes into empty room in school, trips and falls on knife which penetrates into chest cavity, pierces heart, bleeds, is knocked unconscious, and undisturbed for several hours, dies, all on video (forgive graphic ex).
Question
Ms Pearl, is school liable legally, or responsible or both for the student's death, if his parents bring an action for wrongful death?.
What have school admin. officials told you over the years?
Recently?
What do you think a jury would find?
Your personal thoughts about what US legal system result should be, if you care to share?
With cafeteria provided butter knife in hand, a freshman student goes into empty room in school, trips and falls on knife which penetrates into chest cavity, pierces heart, bleeds, is knocked unconscious, and undisturbed for several hours, dies, all on video.
Question
If student's parents bring an action for wrongful death against the school, what do you think
--- a jury would find?
--- a jury should find?
Question
If student's parents bring an action for wrongful death against the school, what do you think
--- a jury would find?
--- a jury should find?
iSleuth
New Member
- Joined
- May 9, 2012
- Messages
- 891
- Reaction score
- 5
you actually may have to put it into your own search with Body- Found- at Local High- School
or wctv Sheriff official statement jan 12, 2013 because I have tried to place the link a few ways and it isn't working well. sorry
http://www.wctv.tv/home/headlines/Body-Found-at-Local-High-School-186489661.html
Lowndes County , GA - January 12, 2013
Press Release: Lowndes County Sheriff's Office
The following has been released by Sheriff Chris Prine;
Investigators are continuing the investigation into the death of Lowndes High School student Kendrick L. Johnson.
The exact cause of death is not yet known but investigators have continued to interview persons and examine evidence collected from the scene. An autopsy will be conducted on Monday by the Georgia Bureau of Investigation, Medical Examiner’s Office to attempt to determine an exact cause of death.
((((( the following section IMHO is reporting ))))))Lowndes County, GA - At the
young age of sixteen years old,---- ------ witnessed something most people hope to never experience. He was among several students who found a classmate dead in the Lowndes High School's old gymnasium.
"First block went by, second block came by and that's when the tragedy happened," he said.
He says it was around 10:30 a.m. when his friend went to play with wrestling mats in the gym. That's when he says his friend saw the body of a male sophomore student.
"She thought somebody was hiding at first...and my other friend and a couple other people got up on the mats and figured out it was a body."
When the body was discovered, the entire school was put on lock down. ____says, he along with the other students who found the sophomore, were held for hours as investigators questioned them about what they saw.
"Were all going through this and we'll get through it," ----said.
This incident has shocked the entire community.
"I received a text message and when I first got it I thought it was some kind of joke or hoax," said ---- -------, mother of a Lowndes High School student.
"From the friends that I know, he was a football player and the football team had just lost another player earlier this year," said -----, a senior at LCS.
The sheriff's office and Lowndes County Schools said nothing has been discovered to indicate foul play was involved and in consideration of the family they are not releasing the name of the student at this time.
"I'm not sure if it's hit me yet," ---- said.
it was a difficult thing for him to experience, but says he's doing okay.
Classes remained in session at the school after the lock down was lifted. An autopsy will be conducted on the student Monday to determine the cause of death.
"First block went by, second block came by and that's when the tragedy happened," he said.
He says it was around 10:30 a.m. when his friend went to play with wrestling mats in the gym. That's when he says his friend saw the body of a male sophomore student.
"She thought somebody was hiding at first...and my other friend and a couple other people got up on the mats and figured out it was a body."
When the body was discovered, the entire school was put on lock down. ____says, he along with the other students who found the sophomore, were held for hours as investigators questioned them about what they saw.
"Were all going through this and we'll get through it," ----said.
This incident has shocked the entire community.
"I received a text message and when I first got it I thought it was some kind of joke or hoax," said ---- -------, mother of a Lowndes High School student.
"From the friends that I know, he was a football player and the football team had just lost another player earlier this year," said -----, a senior at LCS.
The sheriff's office and Lowndes County Schools said nothing has been discovered to indicate foul play was involved and in consideration of the family they are not releasing the name of the student at this time.
"I'm not sure if it's hit me yet," ---- said.
it was a difficult thing for him to experience, but says he's doing okay.
Classes remained in session at the school after the lock down was lifted. An autopsy will be conducted on the student Monday to determine the cause of death.
Lowndes County Sheriff’s Department and the Lowndes County Schools Release
Valdosta, GA - “We are deeply saddened that the body of a Lowndes High student was discovered today on the LHS campus,” said Superintendent Wes Taylor. “Our hearts are burdened for the family, friends, students, staff, and our community.”
The Lowndes County Sheriff’s Office and emergency medical personnel were immediately called to the scene.
Under the supervision of Sheriff Chris Prine, the Lowndes County Sheriff’s Office is leading the investigation with the assistance of the GBI. The investigative team remained on the scene for several hours collecting evidence and interviewing witnesses.
Although the exact cause of death is yet to be determined, as of this stage of the investigation, nothing has been discovered to indicate foul play was involved, according to Sheriff Prine. An autopsy will be conducted on Monday by the Georgia Bureau of Investigation medical examiner’s office to attempt to determine an exact cause of death.
“We are confident that the campus of Lowndes High School is safe for the return of students on Monday,” said Sheriff Prine.
The Lowndes County Schools—in cooperation with the Lowndes County Sheriff’s Office and in consideration of the family—will not be releasing the name of the deceased at this time.
Valdosta, GA - A Lowndes County High School student was found dead this morning inside the school.
The school was put on lockdown for a portion of the day but students remained in class. The lockdown was lifted later this afternoon for students to go home.
Students we spoke with say the victim was a sophomore on the football team. School officials found the boy in the old gym.
Law enforcement officers have not ruled out homicide as the cause of death.
Parents and students WCTV spoke with are shocked.
Officials aren't releasing the name yet but did confirm the student was dead when they found him.
WCTV will have an update on Eyewitness News at 5:30.
Statement from Lowndes County Schools
The Lowndes County Schools regrets that one of our students from Lowndes High School is deceased.
The appropriate authorities are investigating.
We will release further information as it is confirmed.
Classes are continuing at Lowndes High, and all schools will dismiss at their regular times today.
No schools are under lockdown.
rest IMO is reporting
The Lowndes County Sheriff's Office confirms that a body was found at Lowndes High School.
They are currently investigating the case and have not ruled out homicide.
We have reporters working to bring you more information as it becomes available; stay with WCTV for the latest updates.
:fence:
BeginnersLuck
New Member
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2012
- Messages
- 4,003
- Reaction score
- 54
- Status
Similar threads
Online statistics
- Members online
- 117
- Guests online
- 2,839
- Total visitors
- 2,956