GA - Kendrick Johnson, 17, Suspicious Death, Jan. 10/11, 2013, #2

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  • #121
I actually think two. That doesn't really matter if the kid is a psychopath and so is his dad. JMO

Demonstrates my point perfectly - without a shred of evidence that the father and son have done anything to provoke it, they are being vilified due to media and the family attorneys.

Who knows what the scenario was, or if the "invitation" ever happened at all. Chevene King, counsel for the Johnson family once brought a case accusing several individuals of brutally attacking an inmate causing him to commit suicide. Without ever delivering a shred of evidence, King asked that the case be dismissed - the defendants asked for recovery of attorneys fees and were denied. Another court made King pay the defendants $90K. I'm going to venture a guess that King is a fisherman and tells a lot of fish stories. JMO
 
  • #122
The kid has an alibi. He was on the other side of the school when KJ went missing. If the teacher and the video back his alibi up, then IMO there isn't anything to question except why the feds have decided to "double check" it. There is a very troubling cultural pattern that is developing and IMO it's the opposite of seeking justice and more like blood-thirsty witch hunting. JMO. OMO. MOO.

The kid that went into the gym with Kendrick is the only one whose alibi (that I remember), had him going immediately to class on the other side of the school. Are you saying the kid that walked into the gym at the same time as Kendrick is also the kid he fought on the bus? The kid with the red shirt and backpack (in video)?

If so, wow....
 
  • #123
I just see this completely differently and from what I get the cave did not start at that width but ended up at that width around that weird turn.

I still do not see this yet as an accident.. IT seems tooo something.

Here are a couple of examples of how what goes in doesn't always come out. I have found more than these on the net.

[video=youtube;xiqfACjebvk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiqfACjebvk[/video]

Cheerleader suffocates!!! almost :P - YouTube
 
  • #124
Days after the bombshell videos were released, we are back to the stolen organs story. The videos, no doubt, represented exactly what authorities said.
Kendrick Johnson Update: Conflicting accounts of what happened to Ga. teen's organs after gym-mat death
County Coroner Bill Watson who says: "In this case, the Viscera, which is the internal organs, were not sent back with the body for disposition. It was confirmed by Mr. Bryan, (a death investigator with the crime lab), who was present at the autopsy, that the viscera were disposed of due to decomposition of the same.'"
...and
Sherry Lang, spokesperson for the GBI, told Crimesider on Monday that Watson's "accounting of the conversation with Mr. Bryan is inaccurate and incorrect." She said Bryan was talking about "vitrious," fluid of the eye, and not "viscera," internal organs.

Sounds like a bunch of CYA to me which just shows to go ya - if they can't get this straight, there's no way a murder scene was covered up. It's each man for himself in that town lol
 
  • #125
It is not that I don't believe that what goes in can not get stuck. It just does not work for me in this particular instance. No one else was in the gym?? He decided that going headfirst STRAIGHT down a rolled mat that was standing up and blocked in was the best way to get the shoe? I don't believe it. Not yet anyway. To me it sounds like someone threw his shoe in there. I still have to wonder about someone else being there. It just feels that way to me.
 
  • #126
It is not that I don't believe that what goes in can not get stuck. It just does not work for me in this particular instance. No one else was in the gym?? He decided that going headfirst STRAIGHT down a rolled mat that was standing up and blocked in was the best way to get the shoe? I don't believe it. Not yet anyway. To me it sounds like someone threw his shoe in there. I still have to wonder about someone else being there. It just feels that way to me.

When would someone have thrown his shoe in there and even if they did, it doesn't change the fact that he went in to get it.
 
  • #127
When would someone have thrown his shoe in there and even if they did, it doesn't change the fact that he went in to get it.

To be fair, we don't know that is a fact. :fence:

IMO, I think it was horseplay gone wrong, but I also know some folks think he was intentionally assaulted. Whatever the case, I don't think any possibility can be called "fact" just yet.
 
  • #128
When would someone have thrown his shoe in there and even if they did, it doesn't change the fact that he went in to get it.

Sure it does. If they threw it in to taunt him and then said.. No problem. I'll help you out and he went in and then hung there to his death..

That is an issue. I don't think he threw his shoe in there.

Kids do a lot of crazy things but I just don't believe at this point this was as innocent as some would have us all believe.
 
  • #129
To be fair, we don't know that is a fact. :fence:

IMO, I think it was horseplay gone wrong, but I also know some folks think he was intentionally assaulted. Whatever the case, I don't think any possibility can be called "fact" just yet.

If, according to Scarlett's scenario, someone threw the shoe in, would it not stand to reason KJ would then go in to retrieve it?

Facts:
KJ routinely hid his shoes in the mat which would logically lead to
KJ routinely retrieved his shoes from the mats
No one in the gym after KJ entered saw anything - a group came in 10 minutes after
KJ was never seen exiting the gym

Fact . He was found in a rolled up cheer leading mat with the shoes he was known to own and hide in the mats.

Short of an alternatine Universe or a mass cover up, there's just no other explanation. IMO
 
  • #130
If, according to Scarlett's scenario, someone threw the shoe in, would it not stand to reason KJ would then go in to retrieve it?

Facts:
KJ routinely hid his shoes in the mat which would logically lead to
KJ routinely retrieved his shoes from the mats
No one in the gym after KJ entered saw anything - a group came in 10 minutes after
KJ was never seen exiting the gym

Fact . He was found in a rolled up cheer leading mat with the shoes he was known to own and hide in the mats.

Short of an alternatine Universe or a mass cover up, there's just no other explanation. IMO

Sure there is. There is a lot of explanations at this point.
Some of that may be fact some not.

I would bet that Kendrick did not routinely drop his shoes in the mats and crawl down and get them. I would like to know where the information came from. Could it be someone who wants it to look like an accident?

There are many possibilities here. This is not even close to fully investigated.
 
  • #131
It is not that I don't believe that what goes in can not get stuck. It just does not work for me in this particular instance. No one else was in the gym?? He decided that going headfirst STRAIGHT down a rolled mat that was standing up and blocked in was the best way to get the shoe? I don't believe it. Not yet anyway. To me it sounds like someone threw his shoe in there. I still have to wonder about someone else being there. It just feels that way to me.

I feel the exact same way.

I picture someone throwing his shoes in like its a joke then saying ok I'll help you, go in and I'll pull you out. Except they don't pull him out,

I could be totally wrong but that scenario or something similar has been my gut feeling from the beginning.

I guess no one knew the answer to my question about whether or not the shoes were in the mat prior to being moved vertically?
 
  • #132
Sure there is. There is a lot of explanations at this point.
Some of that may be fact some not.

I would bet that Kendrick did not routinely drop his shoes in the mats and crawl down and get them. I would like to know where the information came from. Could it be someone who wants it to look like an accident?

There are many possibilities here. This is not even close to fully investigated.

Exactly why I asked the question of when the mats where moved from the original horizontal position which they were normal stored in.

We know that KJ stored his shoes in the mats when they were laying down, horizontal! Big difference to retrieve a pair of shoes this way.

I'm not sure I'll ever believe it was an accident unless I see video of him completely alone.

The videos we have seen show kids in the gym before he got there and another video shows the kids edited out, why would that be?
 
  • #133
Let's say the gym's low ambient light that day kept KJ from seeing items in openings in vertically stored mats (although I did not search weather data, or google maps to look for skylights in school's old gym).

LE's investigation reports stated that KJ's phone was found in his pocket or w him in the mat and was held for researching incoming and outgoing calls, etc.

My Unscientific Experiment
W. my ancient cell lacking a light app, I stepped into a walkin closet, closed the door, held phone in hand over my head at 7+ feet, simply flipped it open (as if to dial) and it threw enough light that I could distinguish one pair of sneakers from another.

Possible Sequence for KJ?
Video showed KJ walking into the old gym.
Can anyone see at that point if his shoes are unlaced or partially unlaced as many teens wear them?

All IMO:
1. He walked to top of 3-row (IIRC) bleacher set, stepped onto some of ~20 vertically stored, closeby IIRC, mats.

2. He used phone to light mat openings, then ID'ed his shoe, then returned cell to his pocket, then laid atop mats.

3. Lying atop mats, he reached down into opening,

4. Where shoe was, in mat.
(A) Partway down mat opening
Is it possible a shoe would get stuck in ~13-14" wide opening by simply being crossways in the opening?
Possibly shoe snagged on mat button, or shoe eyelet caught on a loose mat string.
If shoe was stuck only partway-down, it's understandable that he would reach down.
Or possibly his reaching to partway-down shoe dislodged it, knocking it to floor.
(B) On gym floor
Possiblywhen he first saw it, shoe was on gym floor.
Some have posted they can't imagine anyone trying reach that far.
I imagine a narrow-build, 3-sport teen athlete like KJ, esp. with a youthful, impetuous mindset, would reach for it.
(Teens like this would reach for it? Oh yes. Me? My better half? Anyone I know in RL? Fuggiddaboutit.)

5. Initially he put only his upper body into opening, then continued reaching, then lost his hold and fell.

6. In trying to break his fall, he broke some left hand or right hand fingernails on the mat. Or broke right hand fingernails on landing on floor (IIRC his rigor mortis made it appear he had been reaching down into mat w his right arm, while his left arm was against his torso, w. hand down ~hip level).

6. In falling all the way into opening, his head hit the floor.

7. He tried to propel himself back up or otherwise escape the mat and - .
(A) In moving hands and arms against mat, perhaps even against his pants, he may have broken (more) fingernails.
(B) IIRC, LE rpt said cell was found in his pants pocket. If cellwas found with him but not actually in pocket, his fall into an inverted position accounts for cell not in pocket.
(C) He kicked his legs around, causing his (possibly partially or entirely unlaced?) shoes to come off his feet and socks to slip down, w sock toes looking floppy like they were in process of being removed.

8. Since his mouth was then at bottom of narrow opening with his body above mufflling any sounds he may have made and that mat being muffled by the other mats around it, students arriving in the gym after him did not hear any sounds he may have made.

9. Within a short time (~10 min?) after fall, he was rendered unconscious so made no cries for help or of pain.


To me, the above sequence

answers several questions raised over and over -
- how he got on vertically stored mats,
- how he saw into openings, either ambient light or cell phone light,
- his reaching for shoe, whether only partway down or on floor,
- shoes he was wearing being found off his feet, but still in mat
- socks he was wearing being loose or floppy on his feet,
- people not reporting that they heard any sounds from him,
- short fingernails, if in fact, he had not clipped them himself,
- location of cell when found, whether in pocket on w him,

and

explains it plausibly as an accident, not a murder covered up by a vast conspiracy involving students, students' families, school staff, county sheriff personnel, county coroner, city PD personnel, state LE, state ME, etc.

JM2cts, JMO, IMO, MOO, and I may be wrong. :seeya:
 
  • #134
  • #135
Does anyone know if he was about to have gym class? Was it said anywhere?
 
  • #136
Exactly why I asked the question of when the mats where moved from the original horizontal position which they were normal stored in.

We know that KJ stored his shoes in the mats when they were laying down, horizontal! Big difference to retrieve a pair of shoes this way.

I'm not sure I'll ever believe it was an accident unless I see video of him completely alone.

The videos we have seen show kids in the gym before he got there and another video shows the kids edited out, why would that be?

They were stored that way at Christmas break. They were just back from break, IIRC

No kids were playing basketball in the gym before or when he got there, no one disputes that except in clever word spin on MSM. :banghead:
 
  • #137
The kid that went into the gym with Kendrick is the only one whose alibi (that I remember), had him going immediately to class on the other side of the school. Are you saying the kid that walked into the gym at the same time as Kendrick is also the kid he fought on the bus? The kid with the red shirt and backpack (in video)?

If so, wow....

I'm not sure. It's very confusing because the names are redacted in the Incident Report. I wish they'd give them numbers at least so we could better piece together the evidence.

I'm guessing that the kid (who allegedly fought KJ), his father and his older brother all have alibis. Otherwise, we would have heard factual evidence instead of the misinformation and insinuation that has been circulated. JMO. OMO. MOO.
 
  • #138
  • #139
  • #140
I think MSM needs to go back to investigative reporting, not sensationalism!!!!! JMO
 
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