GUILTY GA - Lauren Giddings, 27, Macon, 26 June 2011 #11

[bessie]

MAAYYBEE, the hacksaw was PLANTED, AFTER, the torso was discovered, hasty hasty, trying to quickly frame someone, and the packaging left in his apt unawares??

The torso was never supposed to be discovered. Hastily, plan B. That may have never been planned prior.

That's possible, I suppose. After the interview, he was pretty desperate, so he might've taken a chance. But he didn't have much time, and the place was crawling with LE and media. I think by that time, LE was keeping an eye on him.

 

[bessie]

Without the torso there would not have been a crime scene. Without a crime scene the GBI and FBI would most likely not have been involved at the Barristers Hall Apts. Most likely there would not have been any searches of McD's apt. so the master key, Lauren's key, hacksaw wrapper, would not have been discovered. McD would be a free man today. No crime scene, no crime. That was his agenda. IMO he put the hacksaw back in the maintenance room with full confidence that it would not be discovered. Why would it be of interest to anyone? Lauren would have been a missing person. There would not have been any reason for local LE to search and take the hacksaw. We now know the purpose of the hacksaw, and we still have difficulty grasping what actually happened at the crime. Check out this link below to another missing young lady and note there is no crime scene which determined the direction of that investigation. This would have been Lauren's case had Detective Patterson not discovered Lauren's body and had the trash truck arrived first. IMO this is precisely why McD was in shock when Michelle Quesada informed him that a body had been found.
I posted this link before but it is applicable to this post. So here it is again in case you have not read it.
Katelyn Markham Missing Ohio: 22-Year-Old College Student Disappears from Townhouse
Moreover, she left her purse and car keys behind. But when friends and family tried to call her phone, they found it turned off...Police don't seem to know what to make of her disappearance. There were no signs of a struggle at the home...
http://www.truecrimereport.com/2011/08/katelyn_markham_missing_ohio_2.php

I'm not so sure about that. LG was ready to take the bar exam. She was close to her family, had a bf, and no history of drug abuse or mental illness. Her car and keys were still present. In other words, it would not have been assumed that she just took off on her own. LE would have searched the complex, and the K-9's still would have hit in the laundry room and in front of the three apartments which would have led to further investigation. Now, was McD savvy enough to know dogs would be brought in?

Have you been following Katelyn's case here at WS? Her apartment was searched pretty thoroughly. I know dogs were brought in, but I can't put my hands on the article that mentions them. Here's one article that mentions LE searching her apartment.

Police changed the locks on Markham's townhouse Wednesday to secure the home. They say searches of Markham's home, her fiance's home and the area have turned up no evidence that indicates a crime or her taking off on her own.

Read more: http://www.wcpo.com/dpp/news/region...ing-could-lead-to-missing-woman#ixzz1X5rfejde

Here's a link to the current thread.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147352&page=19
​

 

[tomkat]

That's possible, I suppose. After the interview, he was pretty desperate, so he might've taken a chance. But he didn't have much time, and the place was crawling with LE and media. I think by that time, LE was keeping an eye on him.

True but everything he did was risky.... with the neighbor only being across town with his girlfriend. He still had to do his "laundry" in the laundry room. Desperate though, is what i'm playing on. After that interview, something had to be done. QUICK

 

[tomkat]

I'm not so sure about that. LG was ready to take the bar exam. She was close to her family, had a bf, and no history of drug abuse or mental illness. Her car and keys were still present. In other words, it would not have been assumed that she just took off on her own. LE would have searched the complex, and the K-9's still would have hit in the laundry room and in front of the three apartments which would have led to further investigation. Now, was McD savvy enough to know dogs would be brought in?

Have you been following Katelyn's case here at WS? Her apartment was searched pretty thoroughly. I know dogs were brought in, but I can't put my hands on the article that mentions them. Here's one article that mentions LE searching her apartment.

Read more: http://www.wcpo.com/dpp/news/region...ing-could-lead-to-missing-woman#ixzz1X5rfejde

Here's a link to the current thread.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147352&page=19
​

I think LE would be looking for her still. But if the perp had not placed the bloody hacksaw, hastily placed I'd say, in the storage room, they may still be looking but no way did it appear she took off. She appeared kidnapped maybe. I dont' see anyone putting a bloody hacksaw anywhere someone might frequent. Why didnt' he clean it off? It was blood spattered, not a trace in any apartment that we are aware of, but however you wish to enterpret the spattered comment, it was visible blood I gather. THAT......to me.......seems hasty. I think in desperate hope to lead LE astray, confuse, since they had just discovered the torso, he did not want them looking at him............... Desperate. Hasty. Mistake.

 

[Oriah]

I'm not so sure about that. LG was ready to take the bar exam. She was close to her family, had a bf, and no history of drug abuse or mental illness. Her car and keys were still present. In other words, it would not have been assumed that she just took off on her own. LE would have searched the complex, and the K-9's still would have hit in the laundry room and in front of the three apartments which would have led to further investigation. Now, was McD savvy enough to know dogs would be brought in?

Have you been following Katelyn's case here at WS? Her apartment was searched pretty thoroughly. I know dogs were brought in, but I can't put my hands on the article that mentions them. Here's one article that mentions LE searching her apartment.

Read more: http://www.wcpo.com/dpp/news/region...ing-could-lead-to-missing-woman#ixzz1X5rfejde​

Here's a link to the current thread.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147352&page=19​

BBM:

I don't think many people are savvy enough to think of SAR dogs, alerts, and hits.

When properly trained and worked, they can tell us A LOT.

Speaking of which, I wonder if there was any evidence of substance abuse on McD's part?

 

[al66pine]

Sandstorm just posted a link to article about Katelyn Markham's mid-Aug. Ohio disappearance into thin air.
For her, LE has no "crime scene" from which to start, b/c no remains h/bn. located,
unlike LG case, where discovery of torso led immed. to GBI & FBI involvement and other heavy-duty LE efforts.
(Sandstorm was not saying - LE s/look for a suspect common to LG & Katelyn.)

Following the article, others at that site commented on similarities to other thin air cases:
Paige Johnson, Holly Bobo, and Lauren Spierer.
I'm not familiar w. them.

Anyone here know enough about them to think, if local connections (next door neighbor, BH, Mercer, and Macon)
do not lead to LG's killer,
that these cases have/may have significant similarities to LG's?

Thx.

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

Happy Labor Day
WEEKEND, FeLlOw SlEuThErS!!

:fireworks:

Same to you! I hope everyone gets a chance to relax.

Just got in from running. I think of Lauren a lot while I'm running, I guess 'cause it's something we had in common. I have that picture in my head of the dogs searching the park where she sometimes ran (sorry no link but I think it was posted recently).

 

[3doglady]

Sandstorm just posted a link to article about Katelyn Markham's mid-Aug. Ohio disappearance into thin air.
For her, LE has no "crime scene" from which to start, b/c no remains h/bn. located,
unlike LG case, where discovery of torso led immed. to GBI & FBI involvement and other heavy-duty LE efforts.
(Sandstorm was not saying - LE s/look for a suspect common to LG & Katelyn.)

Following the article, others at that site commented on similarities to other thin air cases:
Paige Johnson, Holly Bobo, and Lauren Spierer.
I'm not familiar w. them.

Anyone here know enough about them to think, if local connections (next door neighbor, BH, Mercer, and Macon)
do not lead to LG's killer,
that these cases have/may have significant similarities to LG's?

Thx.

Holly Bobo was seen being led away from her house by a man. LE thinks he was a TN local. Lauren Spierer was out drinking with college friends in the early morning hours when she never returned home. I don't really think either one of those match LG's case. Missing Forum Discussion - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

 

[bessie]

Same to you! I hope everyone gets a chance to relax.

Just got in from running. I think of Lauren a lot while I'm running, I guess 'cause it's something we had in common. I have that picture in my head of the dogs searching the park where she sometimes ran (sorry no link but I think it was posted recently).

Here are photos of the dogs searching Baconsfield Park and Glenridge Dr, areas where LG was known to run.

 

[bessie]

I snipped images of the other HRD K-9's at the apartment complex from a video. The first dog is the one named Cinco from the website we talked about the other day. Maybe Oriah will enlighten us on his behavior and reactions outside Lauren's apartment door.

The video is at this link
http://www.13wmaz.com/news/article/134127/153/Police-Carry-Out-Two-Searches-in-Womans-Homicide

 

[Oriah]

Thanks for the pictures, bessie.

One thing that concerns me, is that it appears he has a ball (or something similar) in his mouth. Or is that just the way the picture appears?

 

[bessie]

I was curious about the object in his mouth, Oriah. I suspect it's a reward, and I wondered if that was a normal part of the routine. I hate to say it, but I wasn't terribly impressed with his reaction, but then I don't much frame of reference. He sniffed, sat down, raised his head and yawned (I think). I didn't see behavior that looked like an "alert". :couch:

 

[Oriah]

I was curious about the object in his mouth, Oriah. I suspect it's a reward, and I wondered if that was a normal part of the routine. I hate to say it, but I wasn't terribly impressed with his reaction, but then I don't much frame of reference. He sniffed, sat down, raised his head and yawned (I think). I didn't see behavior that looked like an "alert". :couch:

I think it most likely was a reward, if in fact that is a ball (or similar) in his mouth.

I am a bit bothered by that, because while you certainly want a SAR dog to find his or her work 'fun' (even under terrible circumstances) imvho, an active working dog should not require any sort of toy or food reward.

That should be left behind in training. When actively working a crime scene or disaster, etc...it's not always handy or possible to have your SAR dogs' favorite Kong in your pocket. Kwim? So to me that reduces the validity of an alert.

Of course that is MOO.

 

[Sandstorm]

BBM- Glenda told us McD bought a hacksaw to use on the pear tree back in the spring. Do you think after he was done with that hacksaw he gave it to BB, who then put it in the maintenance room for future use?

Knox, first of all, I am dubious about anything Glenda says. (BTW, I am stating that very nicely!) Secondly, there is a pear tree and there was a hacksaw at Barristers Hall Apt. However, IMO, the pear tree and the hacksaw are completely UNrelated and never the two have met!

 

[Sandstorm]

I'm not so sure about that. LG was ready to take the bar exam. She was close to her family, had a bf, and no history of drug abuse or mental illness. Her car and keys were still present. In other words, it would not have been assumed that she just took off on her own. LE would have searched the complex, and the K-9's still would have hit in the laundry room and in front of the three apartments which would have led to further investigation. Now, was McD savvy enough to know dogs would be brought in?

Have you been following Katelyn's case here at WS? Her apartment was searched pretty thoroughly. I know dogs were brought in, but I can't put my hands on the article that mentions them. Here's one article that mentions LE searching her apartment.

Read more: http://www.wcpo.com/dpp/news/region...ing-could-lead-to-missing-woman#ixzz1X5rfejde

Here's a link to the current thread.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147352&page=19
​

Bess, any chance I get I am on WS on Lauren's case, but I will try to check out Katelyn too. Thanks for the thread.
As for the dogs and further investigation on the McD case - IF Lauren had been a missing person - maybe LE would have investigated more than I thought possible. Even if the dogs had been brought in and hit in McD's apt what good would that do without a body? I do believe that without Lauren's body it would be very difficult to build a case against McD. Even here on the WS posts many posters who have followed this case need more evidence before they can say HE did it... So how much weaker would the case against McD be without Lauren's body? I have doubts he will be convicted with the evidence that has been found, and I would have zero hope if Lauren had been declared a missing person.

 

[bessie]

Knox, first of all, I am dubious about anything Glenda says. (BTW, I am stating that very nicely!) Secondly, there is a pear tree and there was a hacksaw at Barristers Hall Apt. However, IMO, the pear tree and the hacksaw are completely UNrelated and never the two have met!

I agree, but in the back of my mind I've been hoping a little Bradford pear DNA was on that hacksaw, too.

 

[Oriah]

Bess, any chance I get I am on WS on Lauren's case, but I will try to check out Katelyn too. Thanks for the thread.
As for the dogs and further investigation on the McD case - IF Lauren had been a missing person - maybe LE would have investigated more than I thought possible. Even if the dogs had been brought in and hit in McD's apt what good would that do without a body? I do believe that without Lauren's body it would be very difficult to build a case against McD. Even here on the WS posts many posters who have followed this case need more evidence before they can say HE did it... So how much weaker would the case against McD be without Lauren's body? I have doubts he will be convicted with the evidence that has been found, and I would have zero hope if Lauren had been declared a missing person.

BBM:

Hmm. Why does that matter?

And not to be controversial, but respectfully I disagree. One would be surprised what DNA evidence can be transferred- especially in the event of such a horrific crime.

 

[Givsmetheshivers]

I am sorry if someone has posted this, but I have not had a chance to read through all of the posts so far. I was thinking about the cadaver dogs.
They may not have "hit" on the saw because they may only pick up the smell after the body is in the putrefication stage. Am I correct in saying that this is not within the first couple of hours or death?

I was thinking more about that and I found this article related to it.
See the paragraph concerning days Four to Seven:
http://www.dartsac.org/BodyDecomp.pdf

 

[Oriah]

I am sorry if someone has posted this, but I have not had a chance to read through all of the posts so far. I was thinking about the cadaver dogs.
They may not have "hit" on the saw because they may only pick up the smell after the body is in the putrefication stage. Am I correct in saying that this is not within the first couple of hours or death?

I was thinking more about that and I found this article related to it.
See the paragraph concerning days Four to Seven:
http://www.dartsac.org/BodyDecomp.pdf

Properly and specifically trained HRD dogs can detect a very wide variety of different stages of decomp scent.

 

[Sandstorm]

BBM:

Hmm. Why does that matter?

And not to be controversial, but respectfully I disagree. One would be surprised what DNA evidence can be transferred- especially in the event of such a horrific crime.

Not sure what you mean regarding the DNA transfer - do you mind elaborating for me?
All I am saying is many posters on WS do not believe McD is the prep even with the evidence that has been found including the SoL posts, his interview , etc.. So, IMO, IF Lauren's body had NOT been found we would see an entire movement on this site of posters giving theories of what happened to Lauren as a MISSING PERSON. When this case goes to trial at least it will be a murder trial since her body was found. Without a body there is no murder and even with the her body it will be difficult to convict McD UNLESS the FBI returns some hardcore MCD DNA.