GUILTY GA - Lauren Giddings, 27, Macon, 26 June 2011 #13

[Backwoods]

Well there were no medical expenses. As far as funeral expenses, I know funeral costs have gone way up but a million dollars? A million bucks would equate to one heck of an impressive mausoleum.

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=74507693​

I know, Sonya, but I'm just thinking it could be an "asking-ain't-getting" sort of thing.

ETA: Also, "other necessary expenses" could be made pretty broad, perhaps.

 

[southern_comfort]

It would be great if a local could stop at the courthouse and find out who was named personal representative.

 

[Backwoods]

It would be great if a local could stop at the courthouse and find out who was named personal representative.

Now there's a good idea. Would it be Macon or would it be in Maryland?

 

[southern_comfort]

Now there's a good idea. Would it be Macon or would it be in Maryland?

I would guess Macon. I'd think that was her legal residence.

 

[tomkat]

In one of the first Burns interviews he is asked when the body was dumped. He says the Mercer police were out there the night she was reported missing and they "didn't detect any odor" then he goes on to say the next morning the "techs went back out there and they detected an odor". I swear I also remember him being asked in another interview if it was possible they "missed" the body the night before and he basically said no that really isn't likely because of the odor.

Watch 5:15 in video
http://macon.13wmaz.com/news/news/police-chief-no-arrest-imminent-lauren-giddings-case/55172



Can you recall if they ever actually searched other apartments with the dogs? I know Winters said they asked "all of the apartment owners" if they COULD search the apartments at the bond hearing but I don't think they actually did, did they?

Chiming in, I don't have the proof but I think that was a big issue on here, that the dogs DID NOT search ANY other apartments, ONLY the three, SM, LG and the vacant one.

 

[tomkat]

I think he must've been pretty sure the tenant would not return unexpectedly. I wonder if he had a job back home, and McD knew he'd be away until the weekend. He was a classmate of LG and McD. So, it's certainly possible that he shared his plans with McD.

Keeping my fingers crossed for new info, but not counting on it. :crossfingers: Thanks for the heads up, Agent Frank.

Wasn't there just a recent post or article that the guy downstairs was moving out little by little and he was staying just across town? THAT is TOO RISKY for SM if so.

 

[Backwoods]

I would guess Macon. I'd think that was her legal residence.

I know with undergraduates, legal residence often remains the home state, it seems, so I wasn't sure about in the case of someone attending/just finished with postgrad stuff. Maybe AgentFrank will check in Macon.

ETA: Speaking of AgentFrank: No Atlanta Journal Constitution story yet? Maybe tomorrow.

 

[southern_comfort]

I know with undergraduates, legal residence often remains the home state, it seems, so I wasn't sure about in the case of someone attending/just finished with postgrad stuff. Maybe AgentFrank will check in Macon.

ETA: Speaking of AgentFrank: No Atlanta Journal Constitution story yet? Maybe tomorrow.

I suppose everyone is different, but by the postgrad point in my life I had flown the coop, so to speak, and changed my address to reflect where I was actually living for those years. With L being a bit older than the usual law student, it seems most likely to me that she'd have done the same by that time.

Seems likely, but who knows.

 

[Sonya610]

It does seem odd that McD would have used the downstairs neighbor's apartment, IMHO. Unless he felt certain the guy wasn't coming back. It is weird.

Antoine Bostic, a law graduate who lived in the apartment where the refrigerator was seized, said he started moving out of his apartment, located directly below Giddings’, soon after his May graduation.

He moved his belongings, a little at a time, to another apartment in north Macon and had not completely moved out by the time Giddings’ remains turned up June 30.

Yes, and since this guy was a law student living across town I would think he might be taking the bar prep classes too, which would bring him to the school. Since he had stuff in the apartment and was moving "a little at a time" the risk of him being right there and stopping in pick up more items or use the bathroom or whatever would be very high.

If he had come home and opened that refridgerator and then wondered "Hey what's this bag doing here? What is it?" he likely would have needed counseling to get over his fear of opening refrigerator doors.

 

[AgentFrankLundy]

Well I dont see anything on AJC , I'll check with my source Monday to see what's going on Sorry

 

[Sonya610]

Well I dont see anything on AJC , I'll check with my source Monday to see what's going on Sorry

Any chance they printed it in their paper edition and plan to release it online later? I know my tiny local newspaper does that.

 

[bessie]

Yes, and since this guy was a law student living across town I would think he might be taking the bar prep classes too, which would bring him to the school. Since he had stuff in the apartment and was moving "a little at a time" the risk of him being right there and stopping in pick up more items or use the bathroom or whatever would be very high.

If he had come home and opened that refridgerator and then wondered "Hey what's this bag doing here? What is it?" he likely would have needed counseling to get over his fear of opening refrigerator doors.

He might've been taking the online course. And even if he were moving across town, that doesn't mean he wasn't either out of town that week, or had mentioned to McD some other reason why he would not return until the end of the week. Say for instance, he would be busy studying. Sure, it was a risk on McD's part. Committing murder and dismemberment is risky business.

A killer who takes the time to dismember a woman's body in her own apartment is not terribly concerned about getting caught in the first place. He becomes so enrapt in acting out his violent fantasies that he disregards his personal safety. Often, he's also arrogant, believing that he can outsmart the authorities and everyone else. Not until he comes down from his high and regroups will he worry about self preservation.

Leaving the body parts in the neighbor's fridge was no riskier than leaving them in the garbage can. Suppose the neighbor had returned unexpectedly and opened his refrigerator. Other than the neighbor being traumatized, what would've been different about the outcome? Not much, really. McD would've played the same role of the shocked guy next door, hyperventilating for the camera and lamenting that if only he would have known... Better yet, suspicion might've fallen on the neighbor.

 

[Sonya610]

Leaving the body parts in the neighbor's fridge was no riskier than leaving them in the garbage can. Suppose the neighbor had returned unexpectedly and opened his refrigerator. Other than the neighbor being traumatized, what would've been different about the outcome? Not much, really.

Yeah I will agree with that, same risk either way except it IS riskier to be seen going in/out of the downstairs apartment, but if that was being done late night maybe he knew neighbors would not notice.

I really don't think the garbage can was the ideal solution for the killer (at least not after the police had arrived) I think that became a necessity after they procrastinated regarding disposing of the last body part. If they were in fact burying the parts in the woods I can honestly see why they would procrastinate, what was the rain schedule that week? Gets a lot easier after a good rain.

My earlier theory on WANTING the body to be found doesn't make sense as it could have gone either way that morning, if the killer wanted the body to be found then leaving it nearby would make more sense.

 

[bessie]

Yeah, I think I've finally put to rest the notion of staging. I think he simply got sloppy and ran out of time. Not to be facetious, but I guess it's not a good idea to commit murder while you're preparing for the bar exam. As it is, he missed class on Monday.

 

[bessie]

Here is another link (also specific to Georgia) that better explains what I'm getting at:

...In addition, the Estate of the decedent may seek to recover the “funeral, medical and other necessary expenses resulting from the injury or death” of the decedent. This is a separate and distinct claim which can only be brought by the decedent’s Estate....
...This claim can only be pursued by the “personal representative” of the decedent, meaning it must be brought by the Administrator or Executor of the decedent’s Estate. Thus, in order to recover the funeral and medical expenses, an Estate must be established either by a probate court in Georgia, or by some other court in another state.

http://www.raglandjones.com/lawyer-attorney-1351258.html

bbm

JMO, but I don't think the demand letter pertains to this part of the law.
If that were the case, the PR would submit a letter with an itemization of expenses and copies of receipts.

 

[Backwoods]

bbm

JMO, but I don't think the demand letter pertains to this part of the law.
If that were the case, the PR would submit a letter with an itemization of expenses and copies of receipts.

I'm just thinking that since the Telegraph story talks about part of the communications discussed coming from the estate:

...Atlanta attorneys wrote the April 9 demand letter on behalf of the Lauren Giddings estate to try and resolve issues of alleged civil liability out of court....

http://www.macon.com/2012/04/24/2001930/blood-hair-found-in-refrigerator.html#wgt=rcntnews

...maybe the pending action is involving the medical/funeral/other necessary expenses, and thus would be coming from an executor/administrator named in a will or appointed by a probate court.

It seems that if Lauren's parents -- who are the only ones who seem qualified under Ga. law to bring a suit involving "the value of the life of the decedent" -- were bringing that type of suit, it would not specify the estate, but would specify her parents.

Of course, it's very possible that one or both of her parents, her sister, or another family member is/are executor/s or administrators/s, I think -- in that case, I guess the wording would still be "the estate". But wouldn't if have to be for the medical/funeral/other expenses only, still?

Maybe an itemization is "part of the package", but was not provided to The Telegraph, or the reporters simply chose not to include that information.

http://www.macon.com/2012/04/24/200...-refrigerator.html#wgt=rcntnews#storylink=cpy​

 

[Backwoods]

Another thought on all this: Could it be that this possible action is to be a "survival action" involving pre-death claims? Could the intent be to say that Lauren lived, at least for a brief time, after the injury that caused her death -- and the pain, fear, etc. that she experienced in that time is the basis for the amount being sought?

From the link I posted earlier:

In cases where the death is not immediate, Georgia law permits the decedent’s Estate to pursue a claim for all conscious pain, mental anguish, medical expenses, lost income and other damages suffered by the decedent between the time of his injury and resulting death. Attorneys generally refer to cases brought by the Administrator of the decedent’s Estate to recover compensation for any pre-death damages suffered by the injured party as a “survival action.” A survival action is, in effect, the personal injury action which the decedent could have brought for his own injuries had he recovered and been able to pursue it himself.

http://www.raglandjones.com/lawyer-attorney-1351258.html


I note that this type of action, too, must be brought by the estate:

Accordingly, the decedent’s Estate may pursue a “survival action” to recover all of the decedent’s pre-death damages as a separate claim within the wrongful death lawsuit. It should be emphasized that the Executor or Administrator of the decedent’s Estate is the only person who is authorized to commence and/or prosecute the survival action.

http://www.raglandjones.com/lawyer-attorney-1351258.html


The more I ponder, the more I think this scenario must be the case. What Lauren could have suffered in some interval before death -- though we don't know for sure that she did, and pray that she didn't -- is truly horrifying to think about. The million dollars makes a lot more sense in this perspective.

(Not saying, though, that I feel the apartment complex is the proper target -- just can't say about that, IMO, until more is known about what happened to Lauren.)

 

[southern_comfort]

Yeah, I think I've finally put to rest the notion of staging. I think he simply got sloppy and ran out of time. Not to be facetious, but I guess it's not a good idea to commit murder while you're preparing for the bar exam. As it is, he missed class on Monday.

What is the basis for the conclusion that he missed class on Monday? I know it was alleged in MSM, but who provided that information? I can't remember.

 

[Backwoods]

What is the basis for the conclusion that he missed class on Monday? I know it was alleged in MSM, but who provided that information? I can't remember.

I believe it was The Telegraph that reported this (don't have link right at hand), and as I recall no source was ever named for the missed-class-Monday report. (Well, it could have been an a-source-close-to-the-investigation sort of thing, but you know what I mean.) I know there was speculation on WS that it might have been a professor, classmate, etc., but I don't believe we ever actually learned a source.

The report of him missing class on the day Lauren's remains were found came several days before the "missed Monday" report and was quoted from a classmate/neighbor there at the apartments who was also attending the classes SM was attending. I'll have to check back, but I think that neighbor at that time made a comment something along the lines that he had never known SM to miss class before or that it was highly unusual...so it seems unlikely that he would also be the source for the missed-Monday report, or he probably would have mentioned that as well at that same interview.

ETA: Found some pertinent links:

On missing Monday class:

Source: McDaniel missed 2nd bar-exam prep class
Recent Mercer University law school graduate Stephen Mark McDaniel was absent from a bar-exam preparation class on the Monday before the remains of his classmate and neighbor, Lauren Giddings, were discovered outside their Georgia Avenue apartment building, according to a person close to the investigation. ...

http://www.macon.com/2011/08/12/1662957/source-mcdaniel-missed-2nd-class.html#ixzz1UmrSRLm4

On missing Thursday class:

McDaniel missed key bar exam prep session, man says

...Whitmire, 58, a former University of Georgia chemistry professor who enrolled in law school in his mid-50s, lived in the building behind McDaniel’s at the Barristers Hall apartments....
...“There were some friends that were supposed to have been out searching the night before. ... So maybe he was sleeping in. But that would be very unusual for him because he never missed class. I don’t know that he ever missed class,” Whitmire said....

http://www.macon.com/2011/08/09/1659214/mcdaniel-missed-key-prep-session.html

 

[Knox]

Recent Mercer University law school graduate Stephen Mark McDaniel was absent from a bar-exam preparation class on the Monday before the remains of his classmate and neighbor, Lauren Giddings, were discovered outside their Georgia Avenue apartment building, according to a person close to the investigation.

Read more here: http://www.macon.com/2011/08/12/1662957/source-mcdaniel-missed-2nd-class.html#storylink=cpy​