GA - Rayshard Brooks, 27, fatally shot by Police, Wendy’s lot, Atlanta, 12 Jun 2020 #2

[Rocky1]

I believe you are talking about a jury trial. That’s something different. Yes he can be there, but we were talking about grand jury.

He will not be allowed to watch the prosecutor present the evidence to grand jurors.

Correction, you are right. The only time Rolfe will be allowed to remain is when he is being questioned.
At no time will he be allowed in during deliberations

 

[katydid23]

Officer in Rayshard Brooks case previously accused of 'cover up' in separate incident years before fatal shooting

11Alive's investigative team, the Reveal, found an accusation of a cover up from 2015, involving Rolfe and other Atlanta Police officers.

Records from Fulton County court show officers failed to mention they fired multiple shots into a stolen truck, hitting the driver, in the incident report.

Jackie Harris was shot in the center of his back.

This incident showed up on Rolfe's disciplinary record as being investigated for a firearm discharge in 2015. According to court records, Rolfe fired three of the five shots into the truck. The final disposition for that internal investigation however, is blank on the report that Atlanta Police provided.

However, 11Alive later learned that the DA cleared Rolfe and the other Atlanta officers involved in the shooting this past February, four-and-a-half years later, determining that there was "no criminal conduct related to the actions" of the officers. No charges were brought against the officers.

 

[katydid23]

On January 6, 2020 Georgia police picked him up in Ohio for probation violation for failure to notify his probation officer he moved out of state. It's my opinion that when he went to court in GA, they decided to drop the charges, wash their hands of him and he would go back to Ohio. Little did they know he'd be back again.

I don't think they 'dropped' the charges. I think they gave him probation, and as long as he didn't get in any more trouble, he could do his 'time' from home.

And that is why he was so desperate to avoid arrest. He knew he would go to jail for awhile if that probation was violated.

 

[tayaway]

And, rock the boat of "feelings"? Not a chance

This is about an unprofessional DA, not the case itself. There has to be a productive approach citizens can take.

 

[Simply Southern]

No one is allowed to attend their grand jury proceedings. This is behind closed doors, not in a courtroom or before a judge. Grand jurors usually meet near the prosecutors office and review multiple cases as evidence comes in. If they have further questions, they’ll call in witnesses, but at no time is Rolfe allowed to observe.

I've served on 2 grand juries in VA, both times the defendant was in the court room. The first one, we did ask many questions of the defendant. A adult home owner charged with murder, covering up serve injuries and denying medical treatment. We had several questions to make sure we did not unjustly charge the defendant.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

IMO, the only reason a DA wouldn't wait is because he feels he has enough evidence to obtain a conviction. It's not only the job of a prosecutor to convict, it's his/her responsibility to protect the innocent and to dismiss charges when it's appropriate. There are standards a prosecutor is held to uphold.
In this case, IMO, the evidence is weak, so I'd have to say the only reason he didn't wait is because the city would have burned if he didn't. The other reason I won't say because we are not allowed to discuss politics in regards to this case.

As far as indictment goes, the state can indict, and the grand jury can indict as well.
The word "indict" is another term for charging someone, or accusing.
The grand jury has the final say before trial. If they feel there's enough evidence to "indict" they will return a "true bill" and then the defendant is "indicted" by the grand jury. The case then goes to trial.
If the jury feels there isn't enough evidence to support the charges, then they will return a "no bill" and the case will be dismissed.

Any felony murder indictment is required to be heard by a grand jury in GA. before trial.
Only about half the states in the US use a grand jury, and Ga. is one of those states.

Morning Rocky, and all!

Thank you.

So when they finally do convene to hear his case what if the grand jurors does not agree with Howard that it's a felony murder case?

What if they feel all of the aggravating charges hes lobbed against him were lawful at the time due to the suspect being aggressive in the middle of assaulting both officers? Imo, the GJ will consider the evidence presented in totality of what all transpired at the time, and not just the shooting, imo.

I know they only have to agree on one of the aggravating factors for it to be a capital case.

But what happens if the grand jurors believes the more correct charge is a lower degree of culpability such as 2nd degree, voluntarily manslaughter or involuntary manslaughter?

Imo, I agree with you, and believe this is a weak case, and way overcharged.

PH may be passing the buck knowing if the GJ doesnt agree it warrants the charges he's filed he can then say he tried to get the top charge, and it's the fault of the GJ...not his. I also know he can go to another GJ if more evidence is uncovered.

People often say a GJ will indict a ham sandwich as if it's just a rubber stamp to indict. I cant speak for all GJs of course, but we didnt automatically do anything. We carefully listened to all evidence even having many questions of our own to the witnesses. We all knew our duties were very important with our decisions to true bill any case or either no bill them. We were all mindful of the seriousness of our decisions, and how heavy it was to make the right decision. In fact we no billed 4 cases presented.

This case, and how it's been handle is far different than most Georgia cases I've followed for decades now.

Jmho

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Georgia Code Title 17. Criminal Procedure § 17-7-52

(a) Before a bill of indictment or special presentment against a present or former peace officer charging the officer with a crime which is alleged to have occurred while he or she was in the performance of his or her duties is presented to a grand jury, the officer shall be given a copy of the proposed bill of indictment or special presentment and notified in writing of the contemplated action by the prosecuting attorney.

(b) If the officer requests to appear as a witness, he or she shall notify the prosecuting attorney any time prior to the date the grand jury will begin hearing testimony in such investigation.  The prosecuting attorney shall, after consulting with the grand jury, inform the officer in writing of the date and time when he or she shall be present in order to testify and of the procedure that the grand jury will follow pursuant to subsection (c) of this Code section.  The prosecuting attorney shall further advise the grand jury that an officer has the right to appear and testify or not to appear and testify and that, if the officer chooses not to testify, the grand jury shall not consider that in any way in making its decision.

(5) If the officer is represented by an attorney, the attorney shall have the right to be present in the grand jury room while the officer is testifying, and the officer will be permitted reasonable opportunity to consult with his or her attorney outside the grand jury room.

Georgia Code Title 17. Criminal Procedure § 17-7-52 | FindLaw

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Should Garret Rolfe testify before the Grand Jury?

Would it be a wasted effort since most Grand Jury's will indict a ham sandwich?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I know it's a hard decision to make for any defendant whether to testify on their behalf before a GJ, but it worked in Officer Wilson's case, in Ferguson, didnt it?

It's hard to remember now, but didn't OWs GJ refuse to indict? Imo, if so, that may not have happened if he hadnt testified.

I'm sure since OR has one of the best attorneys in the country per Rocky, he will help him make the correct decision.

His attorney may think it's best his client doesnt give the DA a preview of what he will say if he testifies at trial, which I believe he will.

Jmho

 

[SugarQueen]

Georgia Code Title 17. Criminal Procedure § 17-7-52

(b) If the officer requests to appear as a witness, he or she shall notify the prosecuting attorney any time prior to the date the grand jury will begin hearing testimony in such investigation.  The prosecuting attorney shall, after consulting with the grand jury, inform the officer in writing of the date and time when he or she shall be present in order to testify and of the procedure that the grand jury will follow pursuant to subsection (c) of this Code section.  The prosecuting attorney shall further advise the grand jury that an officer has the right to appear and testify or not to appear and testify and that, if the officer chooses not to testify, the grand jury shall not consider that in any way in making its decision.

Georgia Code Title 17. Criminal Procedure § 17-7-52 | FindLaw

@JerseyGirl , This is what I was saying yesterday! Garrett Rolfe CAN request to appear. He DOES NOT have to be called as a witness by the Grand Jury in order to appear.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

@JerseyGirl , This is what I was saying yesterday! Garrett Rolfe CAN request to appear. He DOES NOT have to be called as a witness by the Grand Jury in order to appear.

Also if Rolfe is called as a witness he can refuse.

(1) The officer's appearance before the grand jury is voluntary, and he or she cannot be compelled to appear as a witness;

Georgia Code Title 17. Criminal Procedure § 17-7-52 | FindLaw

 

[Rocco]

@JerseyGirl , This is what I was saying yesterday! Garrett Rolfe CAN request to appear. He DOES NOT have to be called as a witness by the Grand Jury in order to appear.

Plus, per RANCH's link: (5) If the officer is represented by an attorney, the attorney shall have the right to be present in the grand jury room while the officer is testifying, and the officer will be permitted reasonable opportunity to consult with his or her attorney outside the grand jury room.

So, both Rolfe and his attorney can be present.

 

[Only4Justice]

I couldnt agree with you more!

I'm old. I have lived a long time, and have seen a lot of bad things happen in our country at different times.

However, I have never seen anything like this where it seems we have spiraled down into pure madness.

I never thought I would see the days when lawful acts or even acts of extreme kindness would be called wrong or vilified, and criminal acts or extremely bad behavior would be proclaimed as good acts, and are fully supported or completely excused for very bad behavior. Into days climate often the violent criminals are the ones supported, and law abiding citizens are not.

I no longer can say that day would never come for I have seen it play out for over 7 long agonizing years worsening as each year passes.

Before then I never realized just how many are so cruel, and mean spirited. Those who seem to get up every day seeking only negativity, and nurse it until the day ends only to continue to manifest it day after day never having any positive thoughts or anything positive to say. How miserable it must be because even in the most trying of times we still have many positive blessings in our life to be thankful for, imo.

For now at least, we are the freest country in the world, unless the lawless wins of course. Then no matter where we live it will look like a war zone like the multiple cities we have witnessed being destroyed and ruled by the lawless.

It's hard to even think about that becoming our new reality, but, imo, that's where we are headed if this violence doesnt stop.

Who is going to stop them when many of their local, and state leaders have told LE to standby, and do nothing or even scarier if they want LE to surrender their precinct in more, and more cities.

Imo, we are in the worst moral decay we've ever experienced where everything is upside down.

I have cried as much about this as I have when the terrorists attacked us on 911.

I love my country, and ALL of it's many peace loving people in it. I pray for peace, and safety to return, but I don't see it happening anytime soon. Maybe not even in my lifetime before we pride ourselves again on being a country of law, and order.

I know this... if law, and order is not restored our country will implode from all of the toxic blind hate spilling out on our streets with more, and more blood being spilled of innocent citizens. And with more having their businesses, and livelihoods destroyed who havent done anything wrong except be in the war zone areas where the lawless may rule, and takeover more areas.

If this madness continues our country will not survive. Maybe that is what some are wanting anyway. it sure seems like it at times.

Jmho

great post. Before COVID19 and this unrest, I was looking forward to grandchildren. Now, not so much.

 

[Laughing]

Georgia Code Title 17. Criminal Procedure § 17-7-52

(a) Before a bill of indictment or special presentment against a present or former peace officer charging the officer with a crime which is alleged to have occurred while he or she was in the performance of his or her duties is presented to a grand jury, the officer shall be given a copy of the proposed bill of indictment or special presentment and notified in writing of the contemplated action by the prosecuting attorney.

(b) If the officer requests to appear as a witness, he or she shall notify the prosecuting attorney any time prior to the date the grand jury will begin hearing testimony in such investigation.  The prosecuting attorney shall, after consulting with the grand jury, inform the officer in writing of the date and time when he or she shall be present in order to testify and of the procedure that the grand jury will follow pursuant to subsection (c) of this Code section.  The prosecuting attorney shall further advise the grand jury that an officer has the right to appear and testify or not to appear and testify and that, if the officer chooses not to testify, the grand jury shall not consider that in any way in making its decision.

(5) If the officer is represented by an attorney, the attorney shall have the right to be present in the grand jury room while the officer is testifying, and the officer will be permitted reasonable opportunity to consult with his or her attorney outside the grand jury room.

Georgia Code Title 17. Criminal Procedure § 17-7-52 | FindLaw

THANK YOU!!! Some hope for justice in this horrible situation.

I agree about grandchildren.

Our culture now seems to be all about rioting, looting, and Tiger King.

JMHO YMMV LRR LRR LRR

 

[Abp5]

great post. Before COVID19 and this unrest, I was looking forward to grandchildren. Now, not so much.

I completely agree. Our oldest child is headed to college and just starting out. Sending her out into the world as it is right now is very scary

 

[oceanblueeyes]

@JerseyGirl , This is what I was saying yesterday! Garrett Rolfe CAN request to appear. He DOES NOT have to be called as a witness by the Grand Jury in order to appear.

You are correct. It would have to be solely left up to him since every defendant has a right to not incrinaate themselves. I'm sure this applies to a GJ as well. None of the defendants testified in the GJ I was on nor did we expect to do so either. We all knew they didnt have to nor did we consider it in our decision making one way or the other.

Just like we didnt consider it in the four criminal cases were I served as a juror over the past 30 years or more.

I'm trying to think back, but drawing a blank. Is what is testified to in a GJ allowed to be entered in the trial itself? It seems like it wouldnt be since GJs are confidential. They weren't in any trials I served on.

Of course the witnesses brought forward by the state or those requested to testify by the grand jurors themselves would most likely testify in the criminal trial anyway along with other witnesses.

I dont think GJ transcripts of what was said in the GJ is allowable evidence in the trial itself, but could be mistaken.

I actually think in this case it may be beneficial for the main defendant to testify on his own behalf. That way he can layout, second by second, what transpired, and what was in his mind during the time of all of the chaos, and uncertainty that began after the suspect knew he was going to be arrested.

I think the first 40 minutes of interaction between the officers, and the suspect will show the grand jury there was no intent to do harm whatsoever to the suspect.

If indicted his jurors will have to determine what was in the mind of OR at the time when the events began unfolding out of control due solely to the aggressive behavior of the suspect.

Imo, it's going to be extremely hard to prove felony murder.

I've seen some suspects who were charged with a misdemeanor only for assaulting a PO. They were also in the middle of felonies.

So I think his attorney will stress the double standards. The judge may even allow them to admit footage of where Howard himself said just two weeks prior a taser is a deadly weapon, but not one now in this case.

Its logical that the only way it wouldnt be considered a lethal weapon is if it was in the hands of a police officer who is trained in how to use it. In the hands of a suspect untrained in how to use it is when it becomes a deadly weapon.

Imo. It's obvious he meant to do harm to OR by shooting the taser at his head. The metal barbs, and electric volts easily could have blinded him, and hurt him severely. That is the very reason officers are trained to use it in areas other than the face, and head.

When one of our grandsons was at the police academy being trained by FBI instructors he was tased. It was not pleasant at all, but he sure wasnt being tased in the face or head nor was the taser ever aimed at his face either.

Jmho

 

[Abp5]

“According to a release from the Sheriffs' Association, Howard "hastily conducted his own personal investigation before announcing he had secured warrants or the two officers.

Howard has trampled on the rights of Officer Garrett Rolfe and Officer Devin Brosnan and has further allowed this tragic incident and has further allowed this tragic incident to be more about his re-election than justice for the officers involved, the Atlanta Police Department and the citizens of our state," the statement said. "The Sheriffs, through the Georgia Sheriffs' Association condemn these actions of District Attorney Paul Howard and urge the public to allow time for justice to be served through close examination of this tragic incident."

Georgia Sheriffs group calls Fulton D.A.'s actions in Rayshard Brooks case 'political grandstanding'

 

[oceanblueeyes]

great post. Before COVID19 and this unrest, I was looking forward to grandchildren. Now, not so much.

I know how you feel, but this too will pass. What is worrisome is how long it may take before we once again feel safe in our own neighborhoods, and country.

At some point all of the millions of law abiding citizens are going to get completely fed up with all of the lawlessness that is happening day in, and day out.

When good people do nothing this is the disastrous results. So I believe millions of good people will finally stand up, and demand we return to peace, and law and order.

They may be too fearful rught now, but the more prolonged violence, and destruction they see...the more courage they will have to make a stand.

We know how powerful the silent majority can truly be when they see a wrong, and right it..

We have many precious grandchildren, and grand children. So dont give up any of your dreams for the future that will bring you so much love, great joy, and happiness. They will give you even more strength than ever to protect your city, and your/their right to have happiness, and peace.

You will be more determined than ever to find ways where they can live in peace, harmony, protected, and safe.

Jmho

 

[Curiosity1234]

I haven't read the stats to compare, but around the mid/late 60's there were lots of violent riots, and protests. Civil rights, and Vietnam etc.
I do agree that people snap easier now overall IMO, and I believe that is because we are less sociable than ever.
I have nothing to base this on, but my thought is that before television , people got out of the house and did things. Then came VCR's and even drive in movies became a thing of the past. Then came computers, Skype, and other conveniences . Home schooling, online banking, food delivery, and other services in which nobody has to leave the house at all now.
Remember, there are lot more people than there was in the 1960's and with media in general, if someone gets murdered in California, you hear about it in Maryland. Back in the 1960's, you may read about it on page 5 of the newspaper, but news didn't travel like it does today. I think we hear about more bad things happening overall the moment it happens.

Good points Rocky1, about less socialization, specifically the loss of verbal skills. The telephone used to be the way people communicated verbally; now it's texting. We not only hear news from everywhere almost instantly via tv, it scrolls across the bottom of the screen.We're being over exposed to not just news but ads especially on our phones. China recognized young people were addicted to their phones, so they created addiction classes. They limit how much screen time kids can have. Two parents working 2 or 3 jobs just to make ends meet when it used to take one parent working and the other could stay at home. Today the kid goes to day care at a really young age. Life is stressful today and that leads to frustration and anger. I had to think about 60's. JFK, RFK, and MLK all assasinated in 60's.

I'll answer my own question since I enjoy talking to myself anyway:

Atlanta police sickout calls continue for third day

Atlanta Police officers told us Friday in Zone 5 that 25 police officers called in sick. That’s everyone except for the three supervisors. We were told that homicide detectives were even responding to 911 calls.

I'll answer my own question since I enjoy talking to myself anyway:

Atlanta police sickout calls continue for third day

Atlanta Police officers told us Friday in Zone 5 that 25 police officers called in sick. That’s everyone except for the three supervisors. We were told that homicide detectives were even responding to 911 calls.

I'll answer my own question since I enjoy talking to myself anyway:

Atlanta police sickout calls continue for third day

Atlanta Police officers told us Friday in Zone 5 that 25 police officers called in sick. That’s everyone except for the three supervisors. We were told that homicide detectives were even responding to 911 calls.

If you go back and study history during 1968, IMO there was a lot more violence than there is now.

 

[Curiosity1234]

ok thank you.

Ex-officer charged in Rayshard Brooks' fatal shooting will spend weekend in jail

Fulton County Magistrate Court Judge Jeffrey Frazier said the seriousness of charges against Rolfe prevented him from setting bail on Friday. Court records showed that a bond hearing for Rolfe has been scheduled for Tuesday at 2 p.m. ET.

Oh great, funeral for RB set for Tuesday too. If bail is set and Officer Rolfe is released will that lead to more protests and unrest ( fires, looting etc.) ? We'll just have to wait and see.