GA - Rayshard Brooks, 27, fatally shot in Wendy’s car park, Atlanta, 12 Jun 2020 *officer charged*

[Keefer]

I don't think that tazer manufacturers claim their product is deadly.
Then again, for years, neither did cigarette manufacturers.
I'm not sure if any police force claims they are a deadly weapon either. My guess is no.
Is a tazer a deadly weapon? Sure it is.

Taser safety issues - Wikipedia.

A weapon doesn't have to be "deadly" for police to use excessive force.
The supreme court ruled that an officer can use deadly force if he/she has probable cause the suspect poses a threat to the officer or others, and can use deadly force if the suspect is fleeing.
Tennessee v. Garner.
If you outlaw Tazers, then you'll have more deadly police shootings. The reason the Tazer was introduced was to decrease deadly shootings. Is that really what you want?

Tennessee v. Garner, 471 U.S. 1 (1985)

I actually think tasers are a poor idea. They really did not work so well in this case, suddenly switching from one handheld weapon to another takes a lot of muscle memory.
Muscle memory takes repetition. After sometime this becomes ingrained and I think this was how this officer got in trouble. He was trained to go from taser to firearm not back to using his hands or waiting for his partner to catch up and assist him.
The other problem with tasers is they are mostly used as a compliance weapon, and are most effective only in certain circumstances.

 

[Kakidoll]

This is NOT going to end until people stand up for PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. I watched both videos the entire way thru. Brooks had no clue where he was. He fell asleep in his car IN the drive in, not the parking lot. The cop helped him move it. He then questioned him VERY reasonably. Brooks thought he was in a different town, a different road, changed his story MULTIPLE times, was meeting someone at a hotel, only had 1 drink, then didn't know what he drank, then it was different. Then he didn't know the womans name, then he was at his parents grave, now lets add in the daughters birthday, and he can walk to his sisters. NO NO NO. He took an officers WEAPON (yes, a taser is a weapon when used AGAINST someone, right?) and SHOT IT at the officer. Officer fired HIS taser, so it was then worthless. Was it worth a gunshot. Not particularly, but where does it end. Wait til the officer is shot, THEN is it ok? Or is it NEVER OK to shoot a CRIMINAL? Lets just have a free for all.

 

[SugarQueen]

Care to apologize to the African-American community that most of you put on blast for starting this fire?

Police search for (white) ‘instigators’ who started Wendy’s fire after Rayshard Brooks shooting

Channel 2 Action News obtained new video of a (white) woman who police say is responsible for starting a fire that torched a Wendy’s restaurant, just hours after a deadly police shooting there.

The Atlanta Police Foundation says a lot of tips have come in to CrimeStoppers Atlanta after they posted a $10,000 reward for her arrest.

A Channel 2 viewer recorded the video on Saturday night. It clearly shows a white woman in shorts with a pony tail spraying something into the flames at the restaurant. She smiles and nods and walks away from the restaurant as flames spread.

Video on Twitter, linked in story

Atlanta police shared a second video of the same woman on their Twitter account and still photos of a second woman dressed in black with an aerosol can.

Police search for (white) ‘instigators’ who started Wendy’s fire after Rayshard Brooks shooting

Dave Wilkinson is the president of the Atlanta Police Foundation and a former secret service agent. He says its clear police are searching for a small number of people who came with different intentions than the peaceful protests.

“We’re talking about individuals that are literally throwing Molotov cocktails, the folks that are setting businesses on fire. It appears that their intention for being there is to destroy property, wreak havoc and create violence,” Wilkinson said. “There’s no question when you see that video of the suspects they certainly look different, they certainly dress differently.”

I don’t believe *I* saw anyone put the POC on blast for it. IF it happened I assume it would have been deleted.

 

[Falcon500]

Longer and better training doing what? Have you ever attended a citizens police academy? Why not? Reputable police academies today are .like boot camp plus role playing and endless scenarios with real officers playing the part of drunks, bank managers, holdup men, domestic partners duking it out, and so on. I have an injury to my shoulder that hurts twenty years after I was dragged off of a couch when a recruit suspected I was laying on a gun (I was).

I don’t know what the dictation a report has to do with better training. When you deal with the dregs of society on a daily basis it’s inevitable that people are going to be shot.

 

[SugarQueen]

Care to apologize to the African-American community that most of you put on blast for starting this fire?

Police search for (white) ‘instigators’ who started Wendy’s fire after Rayshard Brooks shooting

Channel 2 Action News obtained new video of a (white) woman who police say is responsible for starting a fire that torched a Wendy’s restaurant, just hours after a deadly police shooting there.

The Atlanta Police Foundation says a lot of tips have come in to CrimeStoppers Atlanta after they posted a $10,000 reward for her arrest.

A Channel 2 viewer recorded the video on Saturday night. It clearly shows a white woman in shorts with a pony tail spraying something into the flames at the restaurant. She smiles and nods and walks away from the restaurant as flames spread.

Video on Twitter, linked in story

Atlanta police shared a second video of the same woman on their Twitter account and still photos of a second woman dressed in black with an aerosol can.

Police search for (white) ‘instigators’ who started Wendy’s fire after Rayshard Brooks shooting

Dave Wilkinson is the president of the Atlanta Police Foundation and a former secret service agent. He says its clear police are searching for a small number of people who came with different intentions than the peaceful protests.

“We’re talking about individuals that are literally throwing Molotov cocktails, the folks that are setting businesses on fire. It appears that their intention for being there is to destroy property, wreak havoc and create violence,” Wilkinson said. “There’s no question when you see that video of the suspects they certainly look different, they certainly dress differently.”

I don’t believe *I* saw anyone put the POC on blast for it. IF it happened I assume it would have been deleted.

 

[Keefer]

I have now given you two sources where a taser was used by police officers. In one, the victim died, in the other the 6 officers were sacked and charged. What evidence are you looking for? Isn't a man dying from being tasered enough evidence for you? If not, then you clearly will never be happy with the answer IMO.

I have now given you two sources where a taser was used by police officers. In one, the victim died, in the other the 6 officers were sacked and charged. What evidence are you looking for? Isn't a man dying from being tasered enough evidence for you? If not, then you clearly will never be happy with the answer IMO.

If you really believe that a taser is a deadly weapon, can you tell me how the cops in this case were justified in using a taser to subdue Mr.Brooks? As I said before most any object can be used to kill someone a pillow for instance.

 

[Falcon500]

I actually think tasers are a poor idea. They really did not work so well in this case, suddenly switching from one handheld weapon to another takes a lot of muscle memory.
Muscle memory takes repetition. After sometime this becomes ingrained and I think this was how this officer got in trouble. He was trained to go from taser to firearm not back to using his hands or waiting for his partner to catch up and assist him.
The other problem with tasers is they are mostly used as a compliance weapon, and are most effective only in certain circumstances.

What non-lethal device would better? One that would not kill but would incapacitate.

 

[SugarQueen]

I have a question about the article that states a “white” woman started the fire. The article states the woman sprayed something on the flames. What FLAMES?? Where did the flames come from? Is she seen actually STARTING the fire before she sprays something? Are we forgetting that there had to be a fire for her to spray something on FLAMES.

 

[mickey2942]

As I stated above Georgia needs to decide if it is or isn’t lethal in Georgia.

It depends on the settings. In police officer training, you get the pleasure of being tazed. Lowest setting, it is an unpleasant experience. I am not sure if they still do that or not. 25 years ago, it was routine part of training.

 

[JerseyGirl]

Garrett Rolfe's citizen complaints date back to 2015. All incidents have notes that no action was taken. A 2016 use of force complaint resulted in a written reprimand the following year.

"I could have told people, 'I guarantee you this officer has had issues in the past.' It's normally that situation," L. Chris Stewart, an attorney for Brooks' family said Monday night. "You know who causes issues or who has had prior issues or who has has complaints. A lot of them don't get justified and then they stay on the force." "So, it wasn't a surprise."

Fulton County District Attorney Paul Howard Jr. says a decision on whether charges will be filed could come as soon as Wednesday. Those charges, he said, could range from voluntary manslaughter to murder.

Howard said he viewed videos that captured the encounter and didn't understand why the incident escalated to a deadly shooting as Brooks initially appeared compliant. Those videos depicting Brooks' last moments alive will help the DA determine whether the shooting was justified.

"At that time, under Georgia law, unless Mr. Brooks posed an imminent threat of bodily harm ... was it necessary for (the officer) to shoot Mr. Brooks to save his life or to save someone else's life. Because if Mr. Brooks was shot for some other reason, then it is not justified," Howard said.

Atlanta Mayor Keisha Lance Bottoms has already said she doesn't believe lethal force in the incident was justified. On Monday, she called Brooks' killing a murder.

Rayshard Brooks: Atlanta police officer had several citizen complaints against him, records show

 

[Keefer]

I have now given you two sources where a taser was used by police officers. In one, the victim died, in the other the 6 officers were sacked and charged. What evidence are you looking for? Isn't a man dying from being tasered enough evidence for you? If not, then you clearly will never be happy with the answer IMO.

If this officer goes to trial, do you really fathom in your wildest dreams that his counsel will cite these cases in his defense? Can you cite a case where an officers taser was taken from him and he was tased to death? If you can, that would be very relevant here.

 

[Rocky1]

I actually think tasers are a poor idea. They really did not work so well in this case, suddenly switching from one handheld weapon to another takes a lot of muscle memory.
Muscle memory takes repetition. After sometime this becomes ingrained and I think this was how this officer got in trouble. He was trained to go from taser to firearm not back to using his hands or waiting for his partner to catch up and assist him.
The other problem with tasers is they are mostly used as a compliance weapon, and are most effective only in certain circumstances.

I agree, they didn't work so well in this case.
Here's the stats as to how well they work overall.

How Safe Are TASER Weapons? | Axon

I also agree that muscle memory takes repetition. That's why cops train.
I'm not so sure the cop is in trouble yet. Sure, he's been fired, but he may be back working with retroactive pay, once the smoke clears.
One thing I think we can agree on is that Rayshard Brooks got into trouble. The data and the video shows that.

 

[tresir2012]

Well, you could say that about most any inanimate object too. A rolled up newspaper, a pillow or a pencil for instance can be deadly in the right hands. What is important is how the law classifies it.

No it is how it is used that classifies something as a deadly weapon. If you stab someone with a pencil and they die, it becomes a deadly weapon.

If you really believe that a taser is a deadly weapon, can you tell me how the cops in this case were justified in using a taser to subdue Mr.Brooks? As I said before most any object can be used to kill someone a pillow for instance.

This article discusses it. Don't know if it has been posted. You will have to make your own mind up about it as we have. We don't have to justify our opinions.

Officers on Atlanta after Rayshard Brooks death: 'New day and a new era in law enforcement'

 

[Rocky1]

If this officer goes to trial, do you really fathom in your wildest dreams that his counsel will cite these cases in his defense? Can you cite a case where an officers taser was taken from him and he was tased to death? If you can, that would be very relevant here.

I think you are hung up on whether or not the tazer was a "deadly weapon"
That doesn't matter.
What matters in court is whether or not the cop felt Brooks actions were a deadly threat to anyone's life or may cause serious harm to anyone's life.
A baseball bat is not considered a "deadly weapon" either, but if a cop sees someone beating another with the bat, and the suspect runs away, if the cop feels like the suspect will harm someone else, then he can shoot him.

 

[tresir2012]

If this officer goes to trial, do you really fathom in your wildest dreams that his counsel will cite these cases in his defense? Can you cite a case where an officers taser was taken from him and he was tased to death? If you can, that would be very relevant here.

Yes it is likely. If it has not already been proved in court that a taser is a deadly weapon. I do not think this will go to court. He had a warrant out on him and was violent and resisted arrest and took the officers weapon.

 

[Keefer]

I have a question about the article that states a “white” woman started the fire. The article states the woman sprayed something on the flames. What FLAMES?? Where did the flames come from? Is she seen actually STARTING the fire before she sprays something? Are we forgetting that there had to be a fire for her to spray something on FLAMES.

What non-lethal device would better? One that would not kill but would incapacitate.

I think this is a huge issue for the police to solve going forward. I know of no weapon technology currently available that would be a panacea. I think for the immediate future better training in team tactics would help. NYPD also hinted that technology allowing the police to find, and confront and arrest someone At another time and place might be preferable.

 

[Keefer]

Yes it is likely. If it has not already been proved in court that a taser is a deadly weapon. I do not think this will go to court. He had a warrant out on him and was violent and resisted arrest and took the officers weapon.

Well, they might take this route I just do not see it working. I think we will find out today if there will be charges.

 

[oviedo]

double post - but I will add I think the DA will charge the officer - the Atlanta Mayor has made a stand.
JMO

 

[Rocky1]

If you really believe that a taser is a deadly weapon, can you tell me how the cops in this case were justified in using a taser to subdue Mr.Brooks? As I said before most any object can be used to kill someone a pillow for instance.

I can. It's simple. The cop felt Brooks was a threat to his safety, so he tazed him. He could have very well skipped that part and just shot him while Brooks was punching him, and legally so according to the supreme court. If the cop "felt" Brooks was a threat to the public's safety, he could have shot him in the back, and legally so.

 

[Sundog]

NYPD Eliminating Plainclothes Anti-Crime Units in Move Toward More Community Policing
I guess proactive policing isn't a priority anymore.

I saw LE interviewed about this NYPD decision, and pretty much now it means that criminals are free to do their thing if they don't see any uniformed police officers around. Up until now, they would have to worry that someone nearby might be an undercover officer, but now, nope.