GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam Co, 2 May 2014 - #13

[Bibi55]

I believe the crime was planned well in advance. Too much of a coincidence that the crime just happened to occur on a weekend where the event that the Dermonds and many other local were attending was on, a number of people living close to Dermond’s were away and the cameras at the entry of estate were not working. I still can’t get out to my mind the fact that the son Brad I think it was used to ring his parents every day. According to Sills murders were committed between Friday and Saturday. So they wouldn’t have been able to answer telephone calls Saturday at least onward. But Mr Dermond’s headless body was not discovered until Tuesday. Thr neighbours had been trying to ring them and ended up going to house. My father is 87 similar age to the Dermonds. I ring him every day too. Now if it was me and my father didn’t answer the phone after a couple of days I would pretty worried. If the son who rang every day tried calling Sat, Sun and Mon wouldn’t he have been concerned after three nights and no answer. I could excuse Saturday if I knew my parents were going to an event but two days after that? I remember it was stated that the couple didn’t go out much, particularly at night. Possibly the son chose not to ring that weekend? I personally just find it strange that if the sons did ring everyday as stated that he was not worried after not being able to get hold of his parents who are in their 80s after a few days. I’m not saying the son children or grandchildren are suspects as no suspects have been identified. I do however believe in my opinion that the crime was perpetrated by someone/s known to the couple as the attack on Shirley Dermond in particular was very savage. Nothing was stolen from her house. JMO

 

[Cedars]

Nothing was stolen from her house. JMO

Good point. I also noticed, nothing was damaged inside the pristine house, either. The only blood was on the floor of the garage. Why would he be in the garage?

JMO

 

[concernedcitizen706]

I believe the crime was planned well in advance. Too much of a coincidence that the crime just happened to occur on a weekend where the event that the Dermonds and many other local were attending was on, a number of people living close to Dermond’s were away and the cameras at the entry of estate were not working. I still can’t get out to my mind the fact that the son Brad I think it was used to ring his parents every day. According to Sills murders were committed between Friday and Saturday. So they wouldn’t have been able to answer telephone calls Saturday at least onward. But Mr Dermond’s headless body was not discovered until Tuesday. Thr neighbours had been trying to ring them and ended up going to house. My father is 87 similar age to the Dermonds. I ring him every day too. Now if it was me and my father didn’t answer the phone after a couple of days I would pretty worried. If the son who rang every day tried calling Sat, Sun and Mon wouldn’t he have been concerned after three nights and no answer. I could excuse Saturday if I knew my parents were going to an event but two days after that? I remember it was stated that the couple didn’t go out much, particularly at night. Possibly the son chose not to ring that weekend? I personally just find it strange that if the sons did ring everyday as stated that he was not worried after not being able to get hold of his parents who are in their 80s after a few days. I’m not saying the son children or grandchildren are suspects as no suspects have been identified. I do however believe in my opinion that the crime was perpetrated by someone/s known to the couple as the attack on Shirley Dermond in particular was very savage. Nothing was stolen from her house. JMO

Yeah but if it was the son, wouldn't he be smart enough to call on Monday and then call police? Also you don't know for sure that they spoke everyday, I would have to read where they said that. The couple were both still healthy, so maybe the son spoke to them every other day. So you know, maybe he spoke to them on Friday afternoon. Then maybe he called on Sunday, he left a message. So then maybe by Monday night he was getting worried. I don't know what time the people came over to check on them, probably during the day on Tuesday. Maybe he was going to call police by Tuesday night. It's not that out of line.

 

[concernedcitizen706]

Good point. I also noticed, nothing was damaged inside the pristine house, either. The only blood was on the floor of the garage. Why would he be in the garage?

JMO

Probably because he tried to escape and the perp dragged him back to the garage.

 

[Rush4087]

https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/may/12/autopsy-shows-woman-drowned-in-lake-sinclair/

Just my opinion, but I don’t think Vicki Stephens’ death at Lake Sinclair is related to the murder of Russell and Shirley Dermond at Lake Oconee

That said, from reading related articles, it doesn’t appear that LE or the coroner tried very hard to find out what really happened to Vicki (or if they did, they didn’t feel a duty to inform the public).

-Was there any evidence of a fall?
-How deep was the water?
-Could she swim?
-Any evidence of fainting? Stroke? Heart attack?
-Was she swimming?
-Inebriation?
-Any witnesses?
-Anybody home?
-Any blood drops?
-Any bumps on the head?
-Hyoid?
-Possible suicide (any note? reports of depression?)

It’s just hard to envision somebody who lives on a lake, who is likely very familiar with their own dock, who was not elderly, and presumably not unable to swim, just jumping into the lake and drowning (in what was likely not very deep water, guessing less than 6-8 feet - plus, couldn’t grab the dock?).

Nobody suggested suicide, but even if LE thought there was that possibility, wouldn’t a person naturally resist drowning even if it was their intention to commit suicide? This is not like swimming so far out into the ocean that you can’t swim back. Just too many unanswered questions for me

It’s a shame that many may be left believing that there was foul play - only because LE was unwilling to provide any information other than: she drowned, don’t know how, don’t know why, don’t know what happened, no evidence of foul play (I guess?), nothing to see here. A disservice to the public imo.

All jmo

 

[concernedcitizen706]

https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/may/12/autopsy-shows-woman-drowned-in-lake-sinclair/

Just my opinion, but I don’t think Vicki Stephens’ death at Lake Sinclair is related to the murder of Russell and Shirley Dermond at Lake Oconee

That said, from reading related articles, it doesn’t appear that LE or the coroner tried very hard to find out what really happened to Vicki (or if they did, they didn’t feel a duty to inform the public).

-Was there any evidence of a fall?
-How deep was the water?
-Could she swim?
-Any evidence of fainting? Stroke? Heart attack?
-Was she swimming?
-Inebriation?
-Any witnesses?
-Anybody home?
-Any blood drops?
-Any bumps on the head?
-Hyoid?
-Possible suicide (any note? reports of depression?)

It’s just hard to envision somebody who lives on a lake, who is likely very familiar with their own dock, who was not elderly, and presumably not unable to swim, just jumping into the lake and drowning (in what was likely not very deep water, guessing less than 6-8 feet - plus, couldn’t grab the dock?).

Nobody suggested suicide, but even if LE thought there was that possibility, wouldn’t a person naturally resist drowning even if it was their intention to commit suicide? This is not like swimming so far out into the ocean that you can’t swim back. Just too many unanswered questions for me

It’s a shame that many may be left believing that there was foul play - only because LE was unwilling to provide any information other than: she drowned, don’t know how, don’t know why, don’t know what happened, no evidence of foul play (I guess?), nothing to see here. A disservice to the public imo.

All jmo

What evidence is there that it's 'not' connected to foul play? Is the public allowed to see the records for this, if it's not considered a crime?

I mean the fact that she was a realtor for the house next door to the Dermonds, and then she dies a few days later, in some strange way, after the Dermonds, is pretty weird. Pretty weird for a small town especially.

I would like to know what type of car she had. Did it look like the car the Dermonds drove? Did it have a parking pass sticker on it for that subdivision?

Was she out of town during the time of the Dermonds crime, and somebody borrowed her car?

 

[Rush4087]

What evidence is there that it's 'not' connected to foul play? Is the public allowed to see the records for this, if it's not considered a crime?

I mean the fact that she was a realtor for the house next door to the Dermonds, and then she dies a few days later, in some strange way, after the Dermonds, is pretty weird. Pretty weird for a small town especially.

I would like to know what type of car she had. Did it look like the car the Dermonds drove? Did it have a parking pass sticker on it for that subdivision?

Was she out of town during the time of the Dermonds crime, and somebody borrowed her car?

It’s from the article. “Found no evidence of foul play” and “..her death appears to be accidental”

I agree with you that it should’ve been and should be looked into if it wasn’t at first.

My post simply said that I personally don’t think it’s related (just my opinion at this time ), and, that apparently (and sadly), it doesn’t appear that LE investigated it very thoroughly - or if they did, they decided to provide little to no info to the public other than: “she drowned”

Jmo

 

[concernedcitizen706]

It’s from the article. “Found no evidence of foul play” and “..her death appears to be accidental”

I agree with you that it should’ve been and should be looked into if it wasn’t at first.

My post simply said that I personally don’t think it’s related (just my opinion at this time ), and, that apparently (and sadly), it doesn’t appear that LE investigated it very thoroughly - or if they did, they decided to provide little to no info to the public other than: “she drowned”

Jmo

Well if somebody drowned her, by maybe handcuffing her, and then holding her head underwater, and then throwing her in, I don't know if there is going to be much evidence left.

Of course, somebody who did that, would be very devious. That would not be a normal situation. But we just had a very devious situation, just a couple days before, just at the other end of the lake. So in my opinion, it's more than probable that somebody very diabolically clever could commit this murder.

And if they did it, they're not going to leave much evidence.

The evidence is, she's a perfectly healthy woman, just hanging out waiting for someone to pick her up, and a woman who presumably could swim. I didn't hear of any toxicology issues or health issues.

So the evidence is, there should be no reason that woman should be drowned in that lake.

Now if there was some kind of toxicology issue, I think that all would have to be on the autopsy right? Cuz they have to write cause of death, and if there was some drug issues, that would kind of be the cause of death, before the drowning. Same with heart attack or stroke. And I didn't hear about any of that, so I don't think there was any noted cause of a specific reason that she drowned.

So I find it very suspicious. Who was this person she was supposed to meet? Who had access to her car, who had she been hanging around with recently?

I definitely think this could connect back to the Dermond murder.

 

[concernedcitizen706]

Well if somebody drowned her, by maybe handcuffing her, and then holding her head underwater, and then throwing her in, I don't know if there is going to be much evidence left.

Of course, somebody who did that, would be very devious. That would not be a normal situation. But we just had a very devious situation, just a couple days before, just at the other end of the lake. So in my opinion, it's more than probable that somebody very diabolically clever could commit this murder.

And if they did it, they're not going to leave much evidence.

The evidence is, she's a perfectly healthy woman, just hanging out waiting for someone to pick her up, and a woman who presumably could swim. I didn't hear of any toxicology issues or health issues.

So the evidence is, there should be no reason that woman should be drowned in that lake.

Now if there was some kind of toxicology issue, I think that all would have to be on the autopsy right? Cuz they have to write cause of death, and if there was some drug issues, that would kind of be the cause of death, before the drowning. Same with heart attack or stroke. And I didn't hear about any of that, so I don't think there was any noted cause of a specific reason that she drowned.

So I find it very suspicious. Who was this person she was supposed to meet? Who had access to her car, who had she been hanging around with recently?

I definitely think this could connect back to the Dermond murder.

By the way to clarify my above post, so for this drowning to be murder, the perpetrator would have to drown her first, by subduing her somehow, like tying her hands or handcuffing her hands, and then after she drowns, removing the handcuffs or whatever he used. So it looked like she drowned accidentally. You know it only takes a few minutes to drown somebody. So just off the top of my head here, he could stand on the dock with her, tie her hands, put her in the water, and then after a few minutes after she drowned, untie her hands so it looks like she just drowned accidentally. I mean anybody who accomplished the Dermond murder, could definitely accomplish this too. A lot less work than the Dermond murders actually.

And the reason it's suspicious is, one because of the timing, so close in time to the Dermond murders, two no particular reason she should be drowned there, as a healthy woman who presumably can swim, in a few feet of water when she could just swim over a few feet to the shore there, and three, she wasn't just some random person, she was the realtor right next door to the Dermonds. So those are some odd connections there.

My theory was, her car was used and or her parking pass was used, to get him into the subdivision of the Dermonds. And get through the guard gate. I mean it's a possibility, anyway.

 

[concernedcitizen706]

Pic of Vicki Stephens obit. Who had a listing next door to the Dermonds. And who also lived on the other end of the lake, at Lake Sinclair. She was found dead on Thursday at her house, two days after the Dermonds were discovered. It did not mention she had a husband or partner. It did say she had a son.

 

[concernedcitizen706]

Pic of Vicki Stephens obit. Who had a listing next door to the Dermonds. And who also lived on the other end of the lake, at Lake Sinclair. She was found dead on Thursday at her house, two days after the Dermonds were discovered. It did not mention she had a husband or partner. It did say she had a son.

Here's another theory I just thought of. I used to think of it as, the perp had to kill Stephens, because she had some knowledge of him hanging around the Dermonds. But I just thought that you could go the other way too. The perp had to kill the Dermonds, because they witnessed him following Vicki Stephens around and parked and walking at the listed house next door. Because he really had been planning on attacking Stephens, first. That's how he first noticed the Dermonds.

 

[Seattle1]

Pic of Vicki Stephens obit. Who had a listing next door to the Dermonds. And who also lived on the other end of the lake, at Lake Sinclair. She was found dead on Thursday at her house, two days after the Dermonds were discovered. It did not mention she had a husband or partner. It did say she had a son.

To be clear, resident Vicki Stephens, who also lived on the lake, died in May 2014?

 

[vls12345]

Was there an investigation or autopsy about Vicki Stephen's death? Her obit says only that she died unexpectedly.

Eta: Quick googling doesn't bring up news stories. But I have not searched extensively either.

 

[Seattle1]

10 years since Russell Dermond was discovered murdered | What we know about the case

No suspect has ever been identified, but there have been recent developments in the case.

www.11alive.com

It's been 6 months since this came out -- evaluating cellular data, and DNA found on Russell's shirt that does not belong to him or Shirley. Any additional info since this announcement by FBI Special Agent Andy Smith ?

 

[Seattle1]

Was there an investigation or autopsy about Vicki Stephen's death? Her obit says only that she died unexpectedly.

Eta: Quick googling doesn't bring up news stories. But I have not searched extensively either.

I think not and probably a mistaken identity too. Decedent does not appear to have been a realtor.

ETA: She reported drowned in Lake Sinclair -- no evidence of foul play per coroner.

https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/may/12/autopsy-shows-woman-drowned-in-lake-sinclair/

 

[concernedcitizen706]

I think not and probably a mistaken identity too. Decedent does not appear to have been a realtor.

ETA: She reported drowned in Lake Sinclair -- no evidence of foul play per coroner.

https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/may/12/autopsy-shows-woman-drowned-in-lake-sinclair/

She was waiting on the back of her deck for a friend to come over, and she ended up drowned in 7 ft of water. In May, which probably wasn't that cold. How does a perfectly healthy woman, who presumably could swim, end up drowned in 7 ft of water, when she could just swim a few feet over to the shore. No I believe that's her. The story is, I believe her real estate license expired, but she still listed the house next door to the Dermonds anyway. Someone wrote more about that earlier in one of these threads.

 

[Kittybunny]

Yeah but if it was the son, wouldn't he be smart enough to call on Monday and then call police? Also you don't know for sure that they spoke everyday, I would have to read where they said that. The couple were both still healthy, so maybe the son spoke to them every other day. So you know, maybe he spoke to them on Friday afternoon. Then maybe he called on Sunday, he left a message. So then maybe by Monday night he was getting worried. I don't know what time the people came over to check on them, probably during the day on Tuesday. Maybe he was going to call police by Tuesday night. It's not that out of line.

In every murder, there are questions about “If the murderer was smart, he/she would have done/not done this or that…” but murder is a highly emotional and hard thing, and people make mistakes all the time. That’s how they get caught. (See Bryan Kohberger and the knife sheath in the Idaho college student murders). As far as mistakes though, this would be one that is merely suspicious, and certainly not enough to charge someone for.

My theory/opinion remains that the killer was close to the Dermonds or hired by someone who was, and that the motive is money related, as it is most often when elderly people/couples are murdered without it being an overt burglary or sexual assault.

Hoping that that DNA yields some results and they are using genetic genealogy as well.

 

[concernedcitizen706]

In every murder, there are questions about “If the murderer was smart, he/she would have done/not done this or that…” but murder is a highly emotional and hard thing, and people make mistakes all the time. That’s how they get caught. (See Bryan Kohberger and the knife sheath in the Idaho college student murders). As far as mistakes though, this would be one that is merely suspicious, and certainly not enough to charge someone for.

My theory/opinion remains that the killer was close to the Dermonds or hired by someone who was, and that the motive is money related, as it is most often when elderly people/couples are murdered without it being an overt burglary or sexual assault.

Hoping that that DNA yields some results and they are using genetic genealogy as well.

I don't know that a murder for hire would be so intense and unusual. I doubt they would bother to cut his head off. And take the woman in a boat in the lake. I think only a serial killer would do that.

 

[concernedcitizen706]

So I'm just pondering here. Now that we saw the pic, I think most people would agree that Miss Stephens is is attractive. And I could see her being the initial target.

I know she wasn't officially a realtor, because her license expired, but did she get involved in any other rentals?, vacation rentals, did she list a lot of things online? I don't think you have to be an actual realtor to list things privately. Or did she have an active social life, and go downtown there at the bars and clubs a lot. Or both.

Perhaps her picture was there with her listings. So maybe somebody got intrigued by her, just by seeing her picture, after they looked for a listing. Maybe they were just curious and looking around for housing, on whatever site she was on, for prices and such. And that's when they saw her picture.

So then they visited some of her listings in person and they caught sight of her. Maybe followed her around some more. Either they stuck a GPS on her car or they actually followed her. Eventually that led him to outside the Dermond subdivision.

But he realized there was a gate there. At that point he realized he needed a sticker to get in there. So he stole her sticker off her car. Or maybe just copied it, with a pic from his cell phone. And he entered that subdivision.

Maybe he went in there a few times, cuz he had been planning on killing her there at the house next door to the Dermonds. Because he knew it was isolated there. But for some reason, his plan didn't pan out, maybe he was busy at that time, and then the house sold.

But then he started getting intrigued with the Dermonds too. He liked their isolated position there. He liked the fact that he could kill two for one.

Maybe after some life stressor on his part, that's when he acted on the Dermonds. He then killed Stephens in a very quick sneaky way after, because it's possible she had seen him or she had casually spoken to him at some point in the Dermond subdivision. So he eliminated the witness.

-- I was also just thinking, I wonder when the last time Stephens was seen alive. For example, apparently she was waiting for a friend to come over. Did she speak to this friend in person, or just texted. Because a devious perp could take her phone and text for her and answer back. She could have been kidnapped and sex assaulted all day, for all we know. If the perp re-dressed up Shirley Dermond after a sex assault and dumped her body in the lake, he could do the same thing to Stephens. And once he got the texts and knew the friend was coming over, he knew he had to get out of there quick.

- Also did her phone go in the lake with her?

 

[Valiant]

This is probably irrelevant, but according to the Georgia Real Estate Commission, Vicki Stephens got her salesperson license 1/17/2002 and it expired on 4/30/2014 for lapsed fees.
It would appear her license was still valid, but does not state if she was attached to a broker at the time (the only way a sales agent can sell real estate).