GA - Suspicion over heat death of Cooper, 22 mo., Cobb County, June 2014, #2

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  • #1,101
Personally the thing I'm waiting to hear about is the dynamic and status of the marriage. If the marriage was troubled this case would make a lot more sense.

I think we HAVE heard about the dynamic and status of their marriage. Everyone says they were very happy, very wonderful, planning to buy a house in the future so little Cooper could run and play.

Do you mean you're waiting to see if anyone pipes up with a comment that disagrees with what everyone else has already said?

Because I'm not "waiting to hear" about the status. I've heard plenty and it's all consistent.
 
  • #1,102
Sad. I'm sure someone in the family wants to create a slideshow for tomorrow's funeral.


Oh dear, that's exactly what I thought too.-I hope the Grandparents and other family members were sent pictures from the laptop they need. That way there can be some pictures of the darling baby. Wonder if there might be some on facebook?
 
  • #1,103
Here. Very early on in the original thread about this case, from another poster. I believe that it was an observation from a coworker?

The observation from the coworker appeared under and article, and stated his building did not have a parking garage. That his usual place was on flat parking, not in a "deck" as previously reported.
 
  • #1,104
Judy, I think you've made a huge leap here. From a question about whether it's typical policy to call, and then "assuming they called the father he must have given some excuse".

I think if daycare called him that day and he gave a lying excuse, this case would be over. That's it. I think LE would lead with that, and anyone who doubted he was murdered on purpose would drift away. That would have been in the warrant, rather than the trip to the car where it's left up to the imagination whether Harris could see the baby/knew he was there/could smell him. If someone called and said hey he was never dropped off, case closed.

As it is, he's only being charged with accidentally leaving the baby in the car, resulting in death.

I was not leaping - I was asking a question and the word *assuming* was meant to be an explanation for why I was asking.... I just find it pretty unlikely that the Corporate Day Care did not question the absence of Cooper that morning. The logical thing in my mind is they called the father to check on him.

If they did not call then that is that. I would think this would be an unusual protocol but so be it.

If they DID call then either they were unable to reach him (as he was supposedly at work from 9 something until after 4 pm - why would that be?) OR they did reach him.

I'm not so sure we would know this - if LE would release this information. I believe they have something pretty substantial that we don't know about....I was just asking questions to see if this might be it.

Would be interested in your scenarios concerning this - Do you believe the Day Care did NOT try to contact Mr. Harris that morning?
 
  • #1,105
So what happens next? A Grand Jury indictment?

Fence sitter here but at this point I'm thinking the scenario that seems most likely is this was a horrible accident that he discovered early in the day, he freaked out about having to break the news to his wife that her precious baby died due to his negligence, therefore sending him into coverup mode.


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  • #1,106
Karmady, no need to bite my head off. I thought we were allowed to opine here. If we're not, I'll stop posting, I guess. I didn't think it was a requirement that we were all legal professionals or criminal analysts. As I wasn't even talking about the murder charge, I was talking about the neglect charge so I don't know why the hyperbole about the death penalty was brought up! I have zero impact on whether he's sentenced to death anyway. OK bye then, I'll just lurk.


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I actually was referring to the Huffpo article based on your comment about it. That's a publication with a fairly wide readership and, if they said that, that's dangerous. If it was all you, and not Huffpo, that's a little different. As they say, though, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts. And what the statute says is an easily verifiable fact.

Also, it's not hyperbole about the death penalty. The ONLY reason he's eligible for the death penalty is because of the child neglect charge --- it's not a murder charge, it's a felony murder charge.
 
  • #1,107
Oh dear, that's exactly what I thought too.-I hope the Grandparents and other family members were sent pictures from the laptop they need. That way there can be some pictures of the darling baby. Wonder if there might be some on facebook?
There must be some other pictures of him, because the MSM articles have them. Where did they get them?
 
  • #1,108
Yes. He's being charged with gross negligence.

That's a far cry from intentional murder, which is what would be an appropriate charge if daycare had called him that morning to inquire why Cooper wasn't there. That's full-on, undeniable intent to murder if he made up some lie to the daycare caller.

At these prices I am quite certain they attempted to reach the parents, or dad called and said Cooper would be absent. I also read on the pdf file they do not refund for days absent.
I honestly could not afford to have a child now.
wow. This is from May 2013.

Infant: $869/Monthly*

Toddler: $816/Monthly*

Twos: $789/Monthly

Preschool: $745/Monthly

http://child-care-preschool.brighthorizons.com/GA/Atlanta/thd/Frequently-Asked-Questions
 
  • #1,109
If her intent was to grab files and leave quickly when she got out of her car, then SHE KNEW HER BABY WAS IN THAT CAR when she left it. She didn't "forget" about the baby until after she got inside. It is illegal and morally reprehensible to KNOWINGLY leave an infant alone in a car, even if it is locked....even if it is "just for 5 minutes."

I know you intended for this cautionary tale about your beloved mentor to engender sympathy, but I find this woman repugnant and lacking in priorities. Take 30 seconds to unbuckle your baby and take him with you, for Christ's sake! Is that so hard? What a selfish woman! You would have been better off claiming that she thought she dropped her baby off because of the "extra stop" or "unexpected change in routine" that supporters of this dad keep spouting off about.

I 100 percent agree with this. Any parent who knowingly leaves a baby in a car is criminal and negligent in my mind.

Another fact that is extremely telling to me is that Harris is being held WITHOUT bail. That's huge to me. It says that LE knows something we don't and leaves no doubt about if this is a accident or not.

And another fact is the smell that was undoubtedly in the car by 4:00 pm that day. There's no way he didn't smell it the minute he opened the car to go home. I find it suspect he got in that smelly car and drove any length of time in the car before "remembering"

As an aside I've read in this thread that these parents had trouble conceiving. That makes this case even more heartbreaking. My own husband and I have been there done that and are expecting our first child next month. And we experienced frightening circumstances even after me getting pregnant being on bed rest for 3 months. I can say that parents who have had to fight to become parents are of a different breed. I think we become hyper aware and far more over zealous which makes me wonder why something didn't click in this guys head during those 7 long hours.

I realize that all parents make mistakes and some might leave a kid in a car if they are on autopilot but they would surely not forget for 7 long hours!!!

BBM.3


I have wanted to point something out about the "smell" that everyone keeps mentioning but have continually forgotten. The smell of death is unforgettable and yet NONE of the witnesses at the scene commented on any smell emanating from the vehicle or the body. So I'm not entirely convinced that the smell had anything to do with the cops busting him right then and there.

IMO what happened is that the father intended to make the discovery of the body when he went to the car at noon. He took something with him as an excuse to go to the car.

Why noon? IMO he felt it was enough time for the boy to die and before he'd be getting any phone calls from the wife or daycare center. IOW enough time to make sure he could "control the discovery."

He went to the car and heard the boy choking and immediately knew he was basically busted on camera and that it wasn't going to go down the way he had intended. He knows standing right by the car that he's on video camera. So he just walks back inside to the building (I seriously doubt he'd have done the google search then.)

He comes out later and tries to control the discovery by driving somewhere else away from the security cameras. But now he's in trouble because how does he rationalize not picking up the kid from day care?

What's the motive to driving somewhere very crowded? A distraction. He doesn't want it just to be him and the cops during the discovery. More people creates more confusion and noise. People notoriously throw sympathy towards the parent that commits this act. So he's making lots of drama about "What have I done!!" to elicit that sympathy and drama in the hopes that it would distract the cops. That IMO is why he drove elsewhere.

As far as the constant applauding of him being a stand up guy, my goodness has no one watched any true crime shows out there? Tons of people have been convicted of horrible horrible crimes and prior had been considered a very upstanding member of society. That means absolutely nothing to me except an indication that the person is likely a sociopath. Sociopaths are known for being very friendly charismatic people. It's how they mask their lack of emotion.

He didn't need an accomplice to pull this off. It's very obvious that all he needed to do was leave the kid in the car and walk away.

Just because the child was supposed to have died in the first hour or so doesn't mean it happened that way. Like others have pointed out there have been cases of children surviving longer that that. The child may have been in a seizure or comatose and gagging and choking.

There had to be something right on the scene that indicated to the police immediately that his story didn't add up. They arrested him right away. They didn't wait for computer searches or any more details.

IMO he slipped and said he heard the boy choking in the back of the car which is why he pulled him out and had CPR started. But the EMT and the police could see immediately that the boy had been dead for some time. That statement was his undoing.

And it's sad to think that Coopers last gasps for life in choking are what ultimately revealed the truth about what his father did to him.

MOO
 
  • #1,110
I see very little similarities to the Casey Anthony other than a child passed way to young as a result of their parents. Kinda ends there for me

A damning Internet search related to manner of death.
Lying to LE, (Choking)
Acting in front of LE and First Responders.
A RIDICULOUS story ("forgetting" Cooper 2 minutes after eating with him)
Going BACK to the car and inexplicably NOT noticing his dead child
Driving around in a car with his dead child in the backseat.
Driving around in a car that reeked of the dead body of his child. As if maybe no one would notice.
Concocting an unbelievable story in a parking lot in front of many witnesses....acting, wanting SYMPATHY and apparently getting it.
The premeditation of the murder of his toddler
 
  • #1,111
I was not leaping - I was asking a question and the word *assuming* was meant to be an explanation for why I was asking.... I just find it pretty unlikely that the Corporate Day Care did not question the absence of Cooper that morning. The logical thing in my mind is they called the father to check on him.

If they did not call then that is that. I would think this would be an unusual protocol but so be it.

If they DID call then either they were unable to reach him (as he was supposedly at work from 9 something until after 4 pm - why would that be?) OR they did reach him.

I'm not so sure we would know this - if LE would release this information. I believe they have something pretty substantial that we don't know about....I was just asking questions to see if this might be it.

Would be interested in your scenarios concerning this - Do you believe the Day Care did NOT try to contact Mr. Harris that morning?

I think they either didn't call him, or they tried and failed to contact him. Judging from how LE is charging this, I can't imagine either:

1. LE doesn't know whether or not daycare contacted Harris
and
2. If he was contacted in the morning by daycare, that he wouldn't now be charged with intentional murder.

That just seems most plausible to me.
 
  • #1,112
I think we HAVE heard about the dynamic and status of their marriage. Everyone says they were very happy, very wonderful, planning to buy a house in the future so little Cooper could run and play.

Do you mean you're waiting to see if anyone pipes up with a comment that disagrees with what everyone else has already said?

Because I'm not "waiting to hear" about the status. I've heard plenty and it's all consistent.


Yes I will wait to hear not what is reported in the MEDIA and by people who may or may not actually know the couple and who are just looking for their 15 minutes. I want to hear what LE finds from THEIR interviews and what is presented in COURT, not the court of public opinion.

You DO know that everyone thought that Laci and Scott Peterson had a "perfect marriage" too, right??? Um, yeah that still didn't stop Scott Peterson from dumping his murdered wife into the SF Bay. Not everything is as it seems.
 
  • #1,113
I guess I'm referring to comments where the person uses an actual facebook account, and when you go to it you can see a history of the person knowing the subject of the articles.

I agree, completely anonymous postings can be outrageous. But I think all of us here have also seen cases where they turn out to be exactly true.

Do you have links to any of those articles? I know the one I posted from Heavy.com the other day had a LOT of info in the comments, from supposed co-workers and friends, but that article hadn't been posted on FB so it didn't have any FB trackbacks. I haven't seen many articles that had FB comments from friends and family... that would be interesting to see.
 
  • #1,114
The observation from the coworker appeared under and article, and stated his building did not have a parking garage. That his usual place was on flat parking, not in a "deck" as previously reported.

So it wasn't his usual parking spot? Did he park differently that day according to the coworker? (shade or no shade).
 
  • #1,115
Yes I will wait to hear not what is reported in the MEDIA and by people who may or may not actually know the couple and who are just looking for their 15 minutes. I want to hear what LE finds from THEIR interviews and what is presented in COURT, not the court of public opinion.

You DO know that everyone thought that Laci and Scott Peterson had a "perfect marriage" too, right??? Um, yeah that still didn't stop Scott Peterson from dumping his murdered wife into the SF Bay. Not everything is as it seems.
And... her parents supported him at first.
 
  • #1,116
They probably want to check if he was drugged which might explain why no one heard a screaming child locked in oven like car for hours.

Medicine.net says:
Symptoms of hyperthermia, or heat-related illness, vary according to the specific type of illness. The most severe form of hyperthermia is heat stroke. This happens when the body is no longer able to regulate its internal temperature; this is a medical emergency. The body temperature may be over 105 F, a level that damages the brain and other organs. Other symptoms include muscle cramps, fatigue, dizziness, headache, nausea, vomiting, and weakness. The heart rate may be elevated, and the skin is reddened. The skin may be moist if sweating is still occurring, or it may be dry if sweating has stopped. Confusion and mental changes may develop, and seizures can occur with brain damage. Ultimately, coma and death may ensue.

I assume the process is similar to (sorry in advance) what they say about frogs. A frog will (supposedly) jump out of boiling water but will not jump out of a pot of cold water as the temperature rises to boiling. If the early symptoms include dizziness and lethargy the child might never have cried out as he became weaker and weaker.
 
  • #1,117
I 100 percent agree with this. Any parent who knowingly leaves a baby in a car is criminal and negligent in my mind.



BBM.3


I have wanted to point something out about the "smell" that everyone keeps mentioning but have continually forgotten. The smell of death is unforgettable and yet NONE of the witnesses at the scene commented on any smell emanating from the vehicle or the body. So I'm not entirely convinced that the smell had anything to do with the cops busting him right then and there.

IMO what happened is that the father intended to make the discovery of the body when he went to the car at noon. He took something with him as an excuse to go to the car.

Why noon? IMO he felt it was enough time for the boy to die and before he'd be getting any phone calls from the wife or daycare center. IOW enough time to make sure he could "control the discovery."

He went to the car and heard the boy choking and immediately knew he was basically busted on camera and that it wasn't going to go down the way he had intended. He knows standing right by the car that he's on video camera. So he just walks back inside to the building (I seriously doubt he'd have done the google search then.)

He comes out later and tries to control the discovery by driving somewhere else away from the security cameras. But now he's in trouble because how does he rationalize not picking up the kid from day care?

What's the motive to driving somewhere very crowded? A distraction. He doesn't want it just to be him and the cops during the discovery. More people creates more confusion and noise. People notoriously throw sympathy towards the parent that commits this act. So he's making lots of drama about "What have I done!!" to elicit that sympathy and drama in the hopes that it would distract the cops. That IMO is why he drove elsewhere.

As far as the constant applauding of him being a stand up guy, my goodness has no one watched any true crime shows out there? Tons of people have been convicted of horrible horrible crimes and prior had been considered a very upstanding member of society. That means absolutely nothing to me except an indication that the person is likely a sociopath. Sociopaths are known for being very friendly charismatic people. It's how they mask their lack of emotion.

He didn't need an accomplice to pull this off. It's very obvious that all he needed to do was leave the kid in the car and walk away.

Just because the child was supposed to have died in the first hour or so doesn't mean it happened that way. Like others have pointed out there have been cases of children surviving longer that that. The child may have been in a seizure or comatose and gagging and choking.

There had to be something right on the scene that indicated to the police immediately that his story didn't add up. They arrested him right away. They didn't wait for computer searches or any more details.

IMO he slipped and said he heard the boy choking in the back of the car which is why he pulled him out and had CPR started. But the EMT and the police could see immediately that the boy had been dead for some time. That statement was his undoing.

And it's sad to think that Coopers last gasps for life in choking are what ultimately revealed the truth about what his father did to him.

MOO
I just wanted to add, that had the discovery been at his work, everyone who ran out would know him and have their own opinion of him.
At Akers Mill it was a crowd of strangers.
I believe he thought he wouldn't get caught and would be more likely to be believed if the discovery was somewhere besides work.
moo
 
  • #1,118
That doesn't explain anything because it's incomplete and wrong. One has to ask themselves how likely is it that criminal child neglect would relate only to food and water. Once the question is asked, the absurdity should be apparent.

The statute provides that one is guilty of first degree child neglect if:

Parent, guardian, or other person supervising a child under the age of 18 willfully deprives the child of necessary sustenance to the extent that the child's health or well-being is jeopardized. O.C.G.A. 16-5-70(a). "Sustenance" means that necessary food and drink which is sufficient to support life and maintain health. Caby v. State, 249 Ga. 32 (1982). OR when such person maliciously causes a child under the age of 18 cruel or excessive physical or mental pain. O.C.G.A. 16-5-70(b).

bbm

and if there's any question, here's the actual statute language:

(b) Any person commits the offense of cruelty to children in the first degree when such person maliciously causes a child under the age of 18 cruel or excessive physical or mental pain.

(c) Any person commits the offense of cruelty to children in the second degree when such person with criminal negligence causes a child under the age of 18 cruel or excessive physical or mental pain.


http://law.justia.com/codes/georgia/2010/title-16/chapter-5/article-5/16-5-70/

It's ridiculous to me that people who have no clue whatsoever about what they are saying are opining about the charges brought and the guilt or innocence of a man accused of killing his child. If you're (general you) going to have an opinion about whether someone is going to get the freaking DEATH penalty, try to get it right. Dang...

For the time being, it seems they are not willing to conclude that he acted maliciously. He did not deprive the child of food and water, and did not MALICIOUSLY cause undue suffering if it was an accident.
 
  • #1,119
I just wanted to add, that had the discovery been at his work, everyone who ran out would know him and have their own opinion of him.
At Akers Mill it was a crowd of strangers.
I believe he thought he wouldn't get caught and would be more likely to be believed if the discovery was somewhere besides work.
moo
What stores are at Akers Mill? Is this the Cumberland Mall?
 
  • #1,120
In the studies someone linked about child car deaths yesterday, the opposite was true. Mothers that were charged were looked at more harshly and received longer sentences.

Yes, I feel like men are thought of as bumbling idiots in matters child related. Not that they *are* but that they are still stereotyped as such.
 
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