GA - Suspicion over heat death of Cooper, 22 mo., Cobb County, June 2014, #7

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  • #541
This has been on my mind.

Anyone know if Cooper's daycare "missed" him, or tried to contact either Ross or Leanna to find out why he didn't come that day?

For all my kids, if I ever forgot to let daycare know they weren't coming, they called to see where they were, if the child was sick, what time we would be arriving, etc. Even when they got older, with the after school elementary school program right onsite--if they don't arrive, I get a call within minutes to find out if I have picked up early, etc.

Hard me for me to believe no one noticed Cooper didn't come that day, or that no one called parents? If Cooper came every day, he would be missed.
 
  • #542
About the picture of JRH holding Cooper as an infant, I have to cut him a little slack for his expression. When we had our first my husband thought he looked goofy smiling, so we have a lot of photos of him looking miserable in those first weeks! Once we got the pictures back (this is pre-digital cameras) he realized how awful they all looked and we laugh about it now. We noticed the same thing in a cousin's pictures with his son -- he ADORES this kid and smiles non-stop when we see them interact, but on Facebook all the pics of them together the dad isn't smiling. Maybe trying to look "tough?"

Also, the angle isn't flattering to anyone, least of all to a guy with a chin like JRH has. Maybe he wasn't smiling bc he knew he looked bad.

I would bet they expected to enjoy Cooper. I can't imagine what happened -- 22 months is sure a lot more enjoyable than the early weeks/months with a baby. Someone touched on the mom looking or seeming depressed -- I can see that. Maybe her depression combined with possible ambivalence about becoming parents with a healthy dose of codependency led to their making a decision to... do this.
 
  • #543
agreed. looks like he was too tall:

He's small in that car seat. If you see the original of that pic, the red car seat liner is much smaller than the car seat.

The dark back of the carseat extends at least 4" above his head, making it unlikely he could be seen in that carseat from behind.
 
  • #544
look at the pic again- I think that was taken in the car. His head is above the car seat back.

His legs could be bent like these:

http://www.google.com/search?q=rear...nksATqrYKgBA&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAg&biw=1024&bih=667

When my children were small, carseats faced backwards only for the first six months. I know that this time has been lengthened, but there comes a time when it simply makes more sense for the child to face forward ... like when a child is walking and talking, finger feeding himself, and strong enough to hold his head up and pay attention to what is going on around him.
 
  • #545
Hyundai calls it a trunk....that's what comes up in a search. I also have a compact crossover SUV; the hatchback area is the same- and it is also called a trunk... there is an optional blackout panel that attaches to conceal what is in that area. just the messenger.

The website you linked to calls it a trunk. Hyundai does not:

https://www.hyundaiusa.com/tucson/specifications.aspx

Anyways, it is not a trunk and I just can't see him murdering Cooper in the cargo area and then moving him into the back seat. I don't get the point, but then I didn't see the camera in the lamp:)
 
  • #546
This has been on my mind.

Anyone know if Cooper's daycare "missed" him, or tried to contact either Ross or Leanna to find out why he didn't come that day?

For all my kids, if I ever forgot to let daycare know they weren't coming, they called to see where they were, if the child was sick, what time we would be arriving, etc. Even when they got older, with the after school elementary school program right onsite--if they don't arrive, I get a call within minutes to find out if I have picked up early, etc.

Hard me for me to believe no one noticed Cooper didn't come that day, or that no one called parents? If Cooper came every day, he would be missed.

Yes, people have talked about that until there was a pre-school teacher who posted that they do not always get around to calling the parents.
 
  • #547
About the picture of JRH holding Cooper as an infant, I have to cut him a little slack for his expression. When we had our first my husband thought he looked goofy smiling, so we have a lot of photos of him looking miserable in those first weeks! Once we got the pictures back (this is pre-digital cameras) he realized how awful they all looked and we laugh about it now. We noticed the same thing in a cousin's pictures with his son -- he ADORES this kid and smiles non-stop when we see them interact, but on Facebook all the pics of them together the dad isn't smiling. Maybe trying to look "tough?"

Also, the angle isn't flattering to anyone, least of all to a guy with a chin like JRH has. Maybe he wasn't smiling bc he knew he looked bad.

I would bet they expected to enjoy Cooper. I can't imagine what happened -- 22 months is sure a lot more enjoyable than the early weeks/months with a baby. Someone touched on the mom looking or seeming depressed -- I can see that. Maybe her depression combined with possible ambivalence about becoming parents with a healthy dose of codependency led to their making a decision to... do this.

Thank you.

I can't tell you how many pics I have seen that look JUST like that - either with the father or mother with a sleeping baby on their chest. I certainly have a pic of me like that - I think with all three sons, and I can't tell you how many I have of my husband. My facebook feed is full of pics of moms and dads who look just like that. It's late at night, the lights in the room are dim, and there's a feeling of "ooh let me get this pic without waking the baby . . . shhhhh".

I thought about assembling a montage of these pics but I don't want to invade my family's privacy. And none of these kids have been killed yet, so that's a good sign. ;D
 
  • #548
Hyundai calls it a trunk....that's what comes up in a search. I also have a compact crossover SUV; the hatchback area is the same- and it is also called a trunk... there is an optional blackout panel that attaches to conceal what is in that area. just the messenger.

I'm not sure why a search engine would do that. It's still not a trunk.
 
  • #549
The website you linked to calls it a trunk. Hyundai does not:

https://www.hyundaiusa.com/tucson/specifications.aspx

Anyways, it is not a trunk and I just can't see him murdering Cooper in the cargo area and then moving him into the back seat. I don't get the point, but then I didn't see the camera in the lamp:)

The boxy object beside her face looks like a bookshelf in the background of the photo that is attached to the lamp.
 
  • #550
Thank you.

I can't tell you how many pics I have seen that look JUST like that - either with the father or mother with a sleeping baby on their chest. I certainly have a pic of me like that - I think with all three sons, and I can't tell you how many I have of my husband. My facebook feed is full of pics of moms and dads who look just like that. It's late at night, the lights in the room are dim, and there's a feeling of "ooh let me get this pic without waking the baby . . . shhhhh".

I thought about assembling a montage of these pics but I don't want to invade my family's privacy. And none of these kids have been killed yet, so that's a good sign. ;D

whew!! this is good news
 
  • #551
I wonder if juries ever get hung because people get annoyed with each other and just don't want to let the other people "win" so they are contrary just to refuse to admit they might have been wrong?

There's so much emotion in this case it makes you wonder. Maybe that's what happened in the Casey Anthony trial. I'm going to look up jury selection experts to see what they can predict. This is definitely going to be a down to the last minute decision, I think.

I was called (by mail) to jury. I did everything I could to get out of it. I got there and still tried to get out of when the judge asked if anyone felt they needed to be excused/hardship and I tried again to get out of it. I did not get called for that case, I was released. The next year I got another call (by mail) for jury duty. At that time because I had been called up the last time in less then 3 years I was excused. I would not play well with others in a jury (12) plus peeps, and yes I would probably be the one that would cause problems, which is why I don't/won't serve. My mother got out using my daughter as her excuse and said she thinks rapist should serve life no parole, so she was excused.
 
  • #552
I'm not sure why a search engine would do that. It's still not a trunk.

yes that' s what I recall too from Tucson memory -- it is exactly like a hatch back with the foldy thing that comes down if you want to conceal your cargo
 
  • #553
He's small in that car seat. If you see the original of that pic, the red car seat liner is much smaller than the car seat.

The dark back of the carseat extends at least 4" above his head, making it unlikely he could be seen in that carseat from behind.

agree to disagree- moving on
 
  • #554
When my children were small, carseats faced backwards only for the first six months. I know that this time has been lengthened, but there comes a time when it simply makes more sense for the child to face forward ... like when a child is walking and talking, finger feeding himself, and strong enough to hold his head up and pay attention to what is going on around him.

you'll get no argument from me -- I agree
apparently people who are way smarter insist that kids need to face backwards up to 4 yrs of age.... who knew huh? looks darn uncomfortable to me
 
  • #555
The problem with this, is that most people who defend forgetting your kid in the car will say that in his mind the child was in daycare. He could have thought of the child all day and even have spoken to his wife about him but if he thought he was in daycare it wouldn't have registered.

I'm intrigued by the lengths to which people will go to in order to defend this guy in this case. It's very telling to me that even with an arrest for murder people just don't want to hold him responsible. And the reason they don't is because of all the cases that happened before where the others were not arrested. When you only have a 50% conviction rate and you have men averaging 3 years in prison for doing this, then you are setting up a situation that is very dangerous to children.

This is why I believe that in every case the parent should be charged for negligence. Not murder but negligence. Yes people forget. We all forget things as parents, we all make mistakes as parents. Every single parent on this thread has some very bad and dangerous thing they did at one point with their child, either via laziness or desperation that could have resulted in the death of their child.

I remember one time leaving my children home alone when they were very little, during a severely cold snow storm and running up the street to pick up milk and cereal and diapers. I had left them for about 10 minutes and ran the entire way. They were both sitting in front of the television and I figured, 'it's safer to leave them here in this cozy warm apartment instead of dragging them out into the cold." They were watching morning cartoons and sitting on the couch. When I got back my 3 year old was in the bathroom with a can of shaving cream, a face full of shaving cream and a razor getting ready to go shave. :please::please: I'd like to say I never did it again, but I did do it again throughout the winter. I just put them both in their cribs before I left again. I was a single mom and had absolutely no baby sitting help and sometimes I took risks that I shouldn't have. I understand how it can happen.

However, it is negligence to do such things. It just is, and forgetting is not something that should ever be excused with a baby. When we start seeing an increase of parents "forgetting" their children in situations that will prove FATAL to the child, we don't sit back in sympathy and say "Oh well ship happens!!" We step up and say this cannot happen, it's too dangerous.

We need to raise the bar in safety, not lower it in sympathy. So parents who have small children should do things to make sure they don't forget their child. Even just writing on the side window of the car in grease paint, BABY!!! is one tiny thing that parents can do. And we shouldn't need car manufacturers and other people to solve that problem for parents. Parents need to be diligent about not ever putting their child in this type of situation. It's their responsiblity.

:twocents::twocents:

Just in case in wasn't clear, I'm not one of the ones defending this guy. I agree with you. But I am trying to figure out what the defense is going to say/do to defend him. To me, his actions are indefensible. What he did is unbelievable and in no way do I think it was an "accident".
 
  • #556
  • #557
Yes I do if my children had died. If my children had died I would have gone down and sat in a police car, walked in and pled guilty and prepared to spend the rest of my life in jail. I wouldn't be trying to "get off" because I would feel so guilty. And I don't necessarily want parents to "go to jail" I want them to be PROSECUTED which is not necessarily the same thing.

I hear from people when I make this point, that it is a waste of tax payer money but I don't think a child's life isn't worth that amount of money and I believe that if parents were charged it would save future lives.

The main difference that I have in my judgment about forgetting kids in a car is that it is certain death. That's really what I can't wrap my mind around when people make excuses. There is no possible way for a child to survive being strapped physically into a car seat and left to bake in a car. Maybe the child could struggle out of the car seat but a baby is certain death. There's absolutely no way for them to survive, bar a stranger busting in the window. In my case, there was a very small risk that they could have died. But in a car like this there is virtually no chance of survival.

That's why I keep pointing out that it's wrong to extend sympathy to the parent for forgetting. They should not at all forget. They should make sure they don't forget because it is certain death.

Think about how many other things in life are "certain death."

A child in a pool has the possibility of staying afloat or swimming to the edge and hanging on. Even a child in a pool filled with Great White Sharks has the possibility of not being attacked and staying afloat and swimming to the edge of a pool.

There is simply no chance of survival for a child forgotten for hours in a car. Compare it to leaving your child dangling from the Empire State Building and their only hope of survival is to hold on for four hours. It's impossible. It is certain death.

When these stories happen we quickly skip away from the details of the suffering of the dead child. Even the video I've seen on it, glosses over the reality of what happens to these children in the car. We don't want to punish the parents more by going over the gruesome details. But think of the little girl who pulled out all her hair before dying? It is an absolute torturous death that goes even beyond the deaths in concentration camps. How in the world do we press a fast forward on this and skip to coddling the "hapless grieving parents" instead of realizing what the child has endured?

What parent would leave a child to endure such torture. If that torture was at the forefront of their mind, they would NOT leave the child in the car. They would take every precaution NOT to forget. This is why RH's web searches are so unnerving.

But because so many parents have had "near misses" based on their own negligence as a parent, they want to skip past the details and suggest the parent has "suffered enough."

This post deserved more than just the click of the thanks button, Chewy :blowkiss:
 
  • #558
reminded by what Bessie has said in the past on another case I have followed. She said even speculation should be based somewhere in fact.

I have to back read as I just woke up but where is the business about killing Cooper in a trunk or cargo area coming from? Has something come out that lead the thread to debate the trunk/cargo area?
 
  • #559
Just in case in wasn't clear, I'm not one of the ones defending this guy. I agree with you. But I am trying to figure out what the defense is going to say/do to defend him. To me, there is nothing to defend. What he did is unbelievable and in no way do I think it was an "accident".

Given that his attorney specializes in mental health defense I am guessing that he's going to use some sort of psych defense I myself think he suffers from AFFluenza
 
  • #560
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zo0l6jsaBuE

Found the video and I stand corrected, they don't call it the Mormon divorce they call it the Nazarene divorce in the Mormon community. 12:40 is where they talk about it. I've heard it called the Mormon divorce as well. But this is what I was thinking about when I posted it.
 
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