Gas Cans discovered by George Key date - June 24, 2008 ***REVISITED ***

[Jolynna]

061771304 060057560 06/26/2006 2 STOVEH 225A R SO 4937 HOPESPRING
DR Stolen Vehicle

If the Anthony's had claimed a stolen vehicle in 2006 to control Casey, then why wouldn't they have done that again in 2008 since they were worried about Caylee? This makes the 2006 incident all the more curious.

I think in one interview with Cindy shortly after July 15, she said she did threaten to report the Pontiac missing. But, KC said she needed the Pontiac because she was working in Jacksonville. Jeff was fixing the Pontiac. The Pontiac was in the shop.

Cindy's initial LE statement alludes to it:

"3 wks ago asked my daughter to bring my (word "her" crossed out) car home along with my granddaughter Caylee. She told me she was in Jacksonville for the last 2-1/2 wks."
​

http://www.acandyrose.com/caylee_anthony_transcript_CindyStatement071508.htm

Cindy didn't have custody of Caylee. But, the title to the Pontiac was in Cindy's name. The Pontiac was a legal way to have some control, although Cindy didn't actually know even what city KC was in. KC was such a liar she could have been in another state.

It sounds to me like KC made nice, begged, promised to meet Cindy at Universal with Caylee, promised to come home day after day,etc. I don't think is would be unreasonable for Cindy to believe that if she placated KC, KC would show up with Caylee after whoever was harboring KC got sick of the mooching.

 

[Jolynna]

The gas can theft was an obvious burglary. There was a broken lock.

Filing a police report is the first step toward filing any homeowner claims. Plus, it establishes a pattern should the Anthony home subsequently get broken into by KC or anyone else.

The Anthony's may have thought reporting the gas can theft would somehow be useful in their trying to track down KC. Or to be used against KC in a future battle for custody.

But, before the next afternoon KC showed up and gave the gas cans back.

I am very sure that if George saw Caylee's body, Caylee would not have ended up dumped with trash on Suburban barely past where the grass was mowed down with items from the Anthony house.

George would have done a decent job of cleaning KC's car. He wouldn't have left used paper towels full of decomposition in a trash bag in KC's car trunk. There wouldn't have been a stain. There wouldn't have been leftover decomposition to ripen.

KC wouldn't have had to wait ANY days after June 24 until George left for work before sneaking back into the Anthony house if George was "in on" things. Cindy went to work early. Father and daughter could have used mornings to "clean up" more.

 

[~ Amy ~]

Yes, Caylee's bedroom window is in front of the walkway leading to the gas can shed.

Is that Caylee's bedroom window , in pic 49 of the shed that was taken on the evening of 7/16?

 

[momtocjnalexis]

*snipped for length* The pic definitely has a connection and right now that red seems the most likely.
What if the red on the bag transferred to the blanket Caylee was in? KC took the trash bag out and set it down on the mulch to make room for Caylee in the trunk,then put the bag back in to hide Caylee.

When I was reading through the photobucket thread MissJames made the above post I copied here (hope that was okay) that got me thinking. What if, just what if, Casey put Caylee in the trunk, covered her up with the garabage bags and she was under there when George retreived the gas cans on the 24th? The garabage would've been a good excuse to any smell that would've started and a good cover for the body. Casey didn't intend for this to go down this way but was thankful that the body was hidden when this happened and decided she needed to dump the body quick which led to the obviously rushed disposal on the side of the road. Then in the LE interview (sorry forgot which one and I should be working and not posting) when George talked about the trunk he got physically ill. It finally dawned on him that it was very likely little Caylee's body was right there under the garabage bags and he missed it, he blamed any smell on the garabage bags and went on the merry way. JMO

 

[Truthwillsetufree]

Is that Caylee's bedroom window , in pic 49 of the shed that was taken on the evening of 7/16?

From the floor plans that were painstakenly re-created here by some very talented WSers, I surmise the first window that is up higher is the kitchen window and the next one is Caylee's. That is my theory anyway.

 

[Amil]

Is that Caylee's bedroom window , in pic 49 of the shed that was taken on the evening of 7/16?

http://media.myfoxorlando.com/photog.../lg/208827.htm

 

[BondJamesBond]

Convinced now that the K9 alert in the Anthony's backyard were the sole result of George taking the gas can(s) back there and washing them off because of the bad smell of decomp on the surface, and possibly decomp fluid/matter that had contacted the bottom.

The depression left by the pool possibly the result of the Anthony dog digging for the source of the smell in that one location.

The washing would've been necessary before George would put the bad smelling gas cans in his HHR to refill them, as he most-likely needed/planned to do since he had planned to mow the yard 6/24AM.

The K9 alert inside the playhouse most likely the result of George picking up one of Caylee's toys from the sandbox area and tossing it in the playhouse before washing the gas cans off in the area. Perhaps this toy was disposed of before the K9 search after putting it together.

Speculating that the specific odor on the gas can(s) may not have been significant enough 6/24 for George to recognize the smell, and/or, the washing was compelled by the fluid/matter on the bottom of the can. Nevertheless, George has omitted telling LE about what he did w/ the gas cans since he realizes that would implicate Casey further.

 

[steadychick]

BJB -- I don't think he would have even needed to wash them off. Wouldn't the smell be there if he set them down on the ground? Did the cans get tested for decomp?

 

[AZlawyer]

Convinced now that the K9 alert in the Anthony's backyard were the sole result of George taking the gas can(s) back there and washing them off because of the bad smell of decomp on the surface, and possibly decomp fluid/matter that had contacted the bottom.

The depression left by the pool possibly the result of the Anthony dog digging for the source of the smell in that one location.

The washing would've been necessary before George would put the bad smelling gas cans in his HHR to refill them, as he most-likely needed/planned to do since he had planned to mow the yard 6/24AM.

The K9 alert inside the playhouse most likely the result of George picking up one of Caylee's toys from the sandbox area and tossing it in the playhouse before washing the gas cans off in the area. Perhaps this toy was disposed of before the K9 search after putting it together.

Speculating that the specific odor on the gas can(s) may not have been significant enough 6/24 for George to recognize the smell, and/or, the washing was compelled by the fluid/matter on the bottom of the can. Nevertheless, George has omitted telling LE about what he did w/ the gas cans since he realizes that would implicate Casey further.

This really makes a lot of sense to me--and even if the smell didn't quite "click" for him on June 24, I'm sure in hindsight he has realized that Caylee was already dead by then.

 

[BondJamesBond]

...adding...

Considering the logistics of item placement in the trunk as illustrated (by Harmony2) in the "outline" thread, when one considers the size of the gas cans, its seems almost impossible for one of the gas cans not to have had at least a portion of its bottom sitting directly on top of the stain. IOW, if the blue crate wasn't in the stain, it took up enough space such that a gas can virtually had to be. Hope that makes sense.

George knows. Perhaps somehow he did raise this to LE and that detail hasn't been released...and to toss in a bit of wild speculation oke:...wouldn't that have made compelling testimony for the Grand Jury....(begin dream sequence), "Yes - the areas in my backyard where the K9s alerted are consistent with where I placed the gas cans immediately upon receiving them from my daughter 6/24 after she retrieved them from her trunk which the K9s also alerted on." (End dream sequence)

IMHO, decomp on gas cans - direct or indirect - will be SO important at trial. First, because it will be VERY easy for a jury to understand. Second, for the prosecution and the jury it relieves a HUGE -albeit not insurmountable - burden regarding the chain of custody of the Pontiac (read reasonable doubt opportunity) post-6/24 (read @ Amscot, towyard, etc.)

Repeating myself, but... Bless little Caylee...her very flesh is doing everything to speak to us about who is responsible for this injustice. What awesome power this little 2 year-old girl wielded. Makes me appreciate the work LE, SA, forensic scientists and, search groups like TES, do everyday all the more. Angels among us...every last one of'em. :thumb:

 

[Harmony 2]

...adding...

Considering the logistics of item placement in the trunk as illustrated (by Eidetic, IIRC) in the "outline" thread, when one considers the size of the gas cans, its seems almost impossible for one of the gas cans not to have had at least a portion of its bottom sitting directly on top of the stain. IOW, if the blue crate wasn't in the stain, it took up enough space such that a gas can virtually had to be. Hope that makes sense.

George knows. Perhaps somehow he did raise this to LE and that detail hasn't been released...and to toss in a bit of wild speculation oke:...wouldn't that have made compelling testimony for the Grand Jury....(begin dream sequence), "Yes - the areas in my backyard where the K9s alerted are consistent with where I placed the gas cans immediately upon receiving them from my daughter 6/24 after she retrieved them from her trunk which the K9s also alerted on." (End dream sequence)

IMHO, decomp on gas cans - direct or indirect - will be SO important at trial. First, because it will be VERY easy for a jury to understand. Second, for the prosecution and the jury it relieves a HUGE -albeit not insurmountable - burden regarding the chain of custody of the Pontiac (read reasonable doubt opportunity) post-6/24 (read @ Amscot, towyard, etc.)

Repeating myself, but... Bless little Caylee...her very flesh is doing everything to speak to us about who is responsible for this injustice. What awesome power this little 2 year-old girl wielded. Makes me appreciate the work LE, SA, forensic scientists and, search groups like TES, do everyday all the more. Angels among us...every last one of'em. :thumb:

When I made the following graphic I did not include the gas cans because they were stolen on the 23rd and by that date Caylee had probably already been disposed of. I agree the gas cans could have come in contact with the stain if Casey used them to cover the stain. Your theory makes alot of sense.

Your last paragraph brought tears to my eyes.

 

[JWG]

...adding...

Considering the logistics of item placement in the trunk as illustrated (by Eidetic, IIRC) in the "outline" thread, when one considers the size of the gas cans, its seems almost impossible for one of the gas cans not to have had at least a portion of its bottom sitting directly on top of the stain. IOW, if the blue crate wasn't in the stain, it took up enough space such that a gas can virtually had to be. Hope that makes sense.

George knows. Perhaps somehow he did raise this to LE and that detail hasn't been released...and to toss in a bit of wild speculation oke:...wouldn't that have made compelling testimony for the Grand Jury....(begin dream sequence), "Yes - the areas in my backyard where the K9s alerted are consistent with where I placed the gas cans immediately upon receiving them from my daughter 6/24 after she retrieved them from her trunk which the K9s also alerted on." (End dream sequence)

IMHO, decomp on gas cans - direct or indirect - will be SO important at trial. First, because it will be VERY easy for a jury to understand. Second, for the prosecution and the jury it relieves a HUGE -albeit not insurmountable - burden regarding the chain of custody of the Pontiac (read reasonable doubt opportunity) post-6/24 (read @ Amscot, towyard, etc.)

Repeating myself, but... Bless little Caylee...her very flesh is doing everything to speak to us about who is responsible for this injustice. What awesome power this little 2 year-old girl wielded. Makes me appreciate the work LE, SA, forensic scientists and, search groups like TES, do everyday all the more. Angels among us...every last one of'em. :thumb:

Thanks Bond, for reminding us of the little clues Caylee keeps whispering to those working on her behalf.

Regarding the trip the gas cans made from the garage to the shed, George did mention in his deposition that after KC handed him the effing cans from the trunk, he set them down just inside the garage, and sometime later took them around back to the shed. Since he had one in each hand, it makes sense that he put at least one of them down in order to pull the shed door open. So it could be the source of the K9 hits.

But the SA did not really press him on where the cans might have come to rest or if he might have rinsed them off. Instead, they asked a lot of questions about the patio work that was done and work in general that might have taken place in the backyard. So if we are to read anything into their preferred line of questioning, it seems they believe that KC might have brought Caylee's body into the back yard for the purpose of burying it. The gas cans may be an additional source of K9 hits.

 

[BondJamesBond]

I edited my original post to give proper credit, Harmony. Thanks for bringing it over here. :blowkiss: I'm limited in what I can do (like quoting :bangon the forum when working from my BB

Minor point of clarification, perhaps a moot point. I'm suggesting the sheer space limitation in the trunk would cause the gas can edge to contact the stain (at least)...not that Casey was specifically trying to conceal the stain. Casey had no expectation that anyone was going to be looking in her trunk 6/24.

 

[notthatsmart]

possibly decomp fluid/matter that had contacted the bottom.
What possible decomp fluid/matter are we talking about here? The butric acid? The tiny trace of butric acid? This to me means Ca was able to clean up the bodily fluids and only leave one component of vfa, butric acid traces. Amazing to say the least while able to leave dirt and debris. Sorry this sounds impossible. IMO

 

[sleutherontheside]

I think anything is possible. And as far as the entire case, the defense team does as well.

 

[notthatsmart]

I am still trying to figure out what happened to the first piece of duct tape on the can from the Aug 1st collection. I do not believe it is the same piece of duct tape. The second piece of duct tape could possibly get thrown out as evidence simply because it came in long after Caylee came missing and after LE had its hands on the duct tape. Ga says the Gas cans were returned with no duct tape. Ga says he did not put the duct tape on the can. I always speculated that the duct tape was put on the can to keep gas from getting out , including fumes, However, I have never thought that the duct tape was used to cover the hole so no water could get inside from hosing it down. Everything is just my opinion only.

 

[LambChop]

And since the cans were not exposed to the elements and kept in the shed....there are prints on the tape. Whoever put the tape on that can left prints behind. So LE knows who put the tape on the can. JMO

 

[BondJamesBond]

I'm certainly no expert, NTS, and I gladly respect your right to a differing opinion. So, for clarification only, not to suggest I understand this nearly as well as you do...my opinion for this post is based solely on K9 alerts. So, insert as appropriate the statistical uncerrtainty associated w/ K9's. For my part perhaps I am willing to accept a lower standard of proof than most. IIRC, there is a thread on their capabilites if the discussion warrants digging deeper into that aspect.

So, with that being said, it is my humble understanding that K9 training & recurring certification is contingent upon successfully, repeatably alerting to known cadaver samples. Which is to say that the K9 alert is indicative of the presence of some, or many, species associated uniquely with human cadavers (e.g. mercaptans like cadaverene, putricene) and not solely with one specific compound as in the butyric acid example provided.

Anticipating why one might not have lab results in-hand that provide the lab-to-K9 transfer function... sample collection methods and laboratory techniques have practical limits below which they are unable to provide a statistically defensible result. IOW...a chemical species that a K9 alerts to may be present when a gas chromatograph (for example) may return a non-detectible result...such that they don't contradict one another, rather they have different thresholds above which they can provide a positive and repreatible response.

All of the above applies regardless of whether or not there was an attempted cleaning of the trunk by anyone.

ETA: My apologies for straying OT in n effort to clarify.

 

[sleutherontheside]

I'm certainly no expert, NTS, and I gladly respect your right to a differing opinion. So, for clarification only, not to suggest I understand this nearly as well as you do...my opinion for this post is based solely on K9 alerts. So, insert as appropriate the statistical uncerrtainty associated w/ K9's. For my part perhaps I am willing to accept a lower standard of proof than most. IIRC, there is a thread on their capabilites if the discussion warrants digging deeper into that aspect.

So, with that being said, it is my humble understanding that K9 training & recurring certification is contingent upon successfully, repeatably alerting to known cadaver samples. Which is to say that the K9 alert is indicative of the presence of some, or many, species associated uniquely with human cadavers (e.g. Mercaptans like cadaverene, putricene) and not solely with one specific compound as in the butyric acid example provided.

Anticipating why one might not have lab results in-hand that provide the lab-to-K9 transfer function... adding further that sample collection methods and laboratory techniques have practical limits below which they are unable to provide a statistically defensible result. IOW...a chemical species that a K9 alerts to may be present when a gas chromatograph (for example) may return a non-detectible result...such that they don't contradict one another, rather they have different thresholds above which they can provide a positive and repreatible response.

All of the above applies regardless of whether or not there was an attempted cleaning of the trunk by anyone.

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

 

[suepitzl]

Just curious, is there some new info for this topic to be brought up again? TIA