General Discussion and Theories #4

[Tamarind]

<rsbm>

But it doesn't really matter, does it? If DM was sane when he came in, he cannot get of on an insanity plea.

Of course he would be pretty pathetic and desperate if he thought he could use that defense.

Where was there any mention of anyone getting off on an insanity plea?

 

[Sillybilly]

Where was there any mention of anyone getting off on an insanity plea?

I think it refers to Juballee's post where they question if folks might be upset with sentencing to a mental facility rather than hard time:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ussion-and-Theories-4&p=12122472#post12122472

 

[Sillybilly]

.

I hope some moderators read this post

.... and maybe start a new category-thread if they think it is a good idea

Most of us have been following these Smich - Millard cases for two years and have developed our own personal theories (guesses) on who did what .

I wish there was a place or thread we could make our predictions before the trial starts , it would be a one-post-per person that could not be altered or modified , and maybe best if at first we could not read everybody else's theory before we post our own.

I think it would be fun to see how right or wrong our pre-conceived notions are , put some of our own skin in the game instead of telling everybody else how right or wrong they are. Maybe have a small prize for who predicts best

Who did what in the Bosma murder and truck theft , the motives , the reasons , who was the instigator (MS or DM) , who was the actual killer , who was the accessory , were they a willing accessory or a reluctant accessory , or had the whole thing planned all along.

Was it for the truck or for the thrill or for both , was the incinerator bought for that purpose or for something legitimate

Things like that , maybe even a bit about the death of WM and LB and our guesses as to the how and why.

Anyone else think it would be a good idea? Anyone else brave enough ? I am . Could be both fun and a challenge , and it would make us put our money where our instincts are.

<modsnip>

Arnie, members can create polls in the main Timothy Bosma forum by selecting "Post New Thread" and following the dots. Just put a lot of thought into how the questions are worded so the results are meaningful. Two or three separate polls to cover the main questions would be appropriate.

Sorry, some of your suggestions are not possible (i.e. prizes, hidden answers).

 

[Tamarind]

I think it refers to Juballee's post where they question if folks might be upset with sentencing to a mental facility rather than hard time:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ussion-and-Theories-4&p=12122472#post12122472

I had thought the sentencing comment may be in relation to any mental impairment due to solitary confinement. That's how I read it. I'm not sure it would be wise putting anyone who was suffering in such a way in with the general population of a prison. JMO

 

[Tamarind]

DM is a high-profile killer, and so a target. MS is just "the other guy".

That is your opinion based on whatever you feel is enough to make up your mind. There are those of us who prefer to get a few facts and some actual evidence and form an opinion based on what that brings. A trial is where any new and detailed evidence or lack of will come to light. At this point both MS and DM are charged, so I am having a hard time grasping what it is that makes people find one guilty and one not guilty prior to a trial.

 

[MsSherlock]

Don't know about anyone else, but I've been thinking about how fast this trial is coming! Seems like the pub ban has been in place forever and in no time at all the pub ban will be gone and we'll be discussing the actual trial and getting media reports on evidence, witnesses etc. After 2 1/2 years of silence, it's going to seem strange. MOO

 

[swedie]

The way I see it is, the planner and leader has it all worked out; how it's all going to go down, where and/or how they are going to dispose of a body, hide the truck, dispose of evidence and whatnot because they are the person with the means to do so. DM had everything needed for the job.

Just an example, say someone wants to host a dinner party in their house for friends but they don't have food, china, stove, table and chairs nor the space so they go ahead and host it at their friend's house without their friend's consent. That friend comes home to find everyone in their house, eating their food and using their furniture and fine china. No, logically things don't happen that way in the real world. If you're going to host a dinner party, one makes sure they can accommodate. DM was accommodating IMO. He made sure he planned it out and made "accommodations" everything from how they were going to get to TB's house (in his Yukon), to who was going to drive TB's truck and who would follow in the Yukon, who was going to murder TB and how, where and how to disposed of TB, hide and dispose of evidence. In his head he had it planned with MS but forgot to tell MS TB was going to be murdered. IMO if anyone thinks DM was a weakling in that sort of way, to be taken advantage of by MS, they may want to reconsider. IMO DM was arrogant (showing up without a disguise at TB's), figured he would never get caught, thinking his description was too average, whereas MS was a chicken sh@t and acted suspicious/nervous/scared (wearing his hood up).

IF TB's truck was the motive and MS was the one who wanted TB's truck (which I don't believe), why would he hide the truck inside a trailer belonging to DM, in MB's driveway, trusting DM would let him have it after the fact? And where in order for him to get access to it, he took the chance DM may not have given him the keys to the trailer, or MB may not have allowed him to tow the trailer away not knowing something valuable was inside and knowing it was DM's belongings, without DM's consent. IF it was MS who wanted the truck, he would have made certain it was in a place which he had easy access to it, like in his mother's garage for example. Also, DM got the incinerator for a purpose and IMO it wasn't for incinerating animals or brush on his farmland property, where he likely rarely visited. There are more inexpensive and legal ways to dispose of or incinerating small animals and brush than an official animal incinerator.

It would not surprise me to find out DM considered using the incinerator to get rid of his father also, then claiming his father disappeared. But being the planner and intelligent guy that he is, I am sure he would have given it much thought, weighing everything out, and came to realize he would have blown the whistle on LB's disappearance. LE would have certainly put two and two together then and DM knew they would. DM had two people closely connected to him who just up and disappeared. I am most certain LE would not have brushed off WM's disappearance the way they did with LB. A man with great wealth just up and disappears? LE would not have let WM's case slip through their fingers, no way, no how.
ALL JMO.

 

[Juballee]

Where was there any mention of anyone getting off on an insanity plea?

You're right, Tamarind, I never mentioned an insanity plea, I was speaking of the effects of long term solitary confinement on a previously healthy mind. I was going on the assumption that the justice system would be humane enough to recognize and be sympathetic enough to treat mental illnesses that occur during incarceration the same way that they would treat other injuries that occurred during a prison's stay. Especially if that injury/illness happened during pretrial incarceration. I was assuming that if he was found guilty but is now legally insane, his time would be best served in a mental facility as opposed to in general population or God forbid, back in the solitary confinement that caused the illness.

People who have spent time around mental illness may recognize some of the descriptions of deteriorating appearance, weight loss and bizzare grooming habits as outward signs that something is off with a person who has normally always been well groomed and taken good care of their health. If you see these signs in someone you know, talk to them and urge them to seek help.

 

[swedie]

Don't know about anyone else, but I've been thinking about how fast this trial is coming! Seems like the pub ban has been in place forever and in no time at all the pub ban will be gone and we'll be discussing the actual trial and getting media reports on evidence, witnesses etc. After 2 1/2 years of silence, it's going to seem strange. MOO

Just over 13 weeks now eh Snooper. You got me counting down now also.

In some ways it doesn't seem like two and a half years ago Sharlene came out to the public, begging the preps to let her husband and daddy to their little girl go. Sadly by that time it was too late as Tim had already been murdered and incinerated, but she held onto hope and faith. I bet it seems like an eternity and a nightmare to her and Tim's family still. I still have a difficult time comprehending how some people be so evil and warped! What kind of satisfaction could someone actually gain from doing such dastardly deeds...just so horrible sick and wicked. And the preps knew the odds were stacked against them, they would most likely get caught, but still took their chances for a moment of sick satisfaction. They knew they could be facing a long prison sentence, if not the rest of their lives in prison. If the accused are guilty, I hope in their evil minds they believe it was worth it because they deserve what they got and is coming to them. I for one have absolutely no sympathy for them. This will be well deserved justice if they spend the rest of their pathetic lives confined to a prison cell. This is the risk they took, knowing their fate.

LB's family, over three years ago their beautiful daughter dropped off her dog and a shoe box and was never seen or heard from again. How devastating it must be for them to know they will never be able to right any wrongs or mend hearts, hug her or just simply see her again. The accused, if found guilty will still be able to see/visit and talk to their families and friends. I hope if the accused are found guilty, they are abandoned by family and friends. They do not deserve this comfort or benefit IMO.
ALL MOO.

 

[Arnie M]

Arnie, members can create polls in the main Timothy Bosma forum by selecting "Post New Thread" and following the dots. Just put a lot of thought into how the questions are worded so the results are meaningful. Two or three separate polls to cover the main questions would be appropriate.

Sorry, some of your suggestions are not possible (i.e. prizes, hidden answers).

I wasn't wanting a poll. And could care less about prizes . It would be more about seeing how right or wrong our personal theories are. Stand up and be counted before the trial , and that is not easy to do , takes some guts.

For example I think WM stumbled upon what DM (& MS) did to LB and that is one reason WM needed to be eliminated. I could be completely wrong but at least I put some thought and skin into it. Easy to be an expert after the trial.

It has always been my understanding that Websleuths was a gathering of armchair detectives helping to find missing people and educate ourselves about crime in our communities. We educate ourselves by realizing how right we were or how wrong we were.

<modsnip>

 

[Deleted member 102539]

The way I see it is, the planner and leader has it all worked out; how it's all going to go down, where and/or how they are going to dispose of a body, hide the truck, dispose of evidence and whatnot because they are the person with the means to do so. DM had everything needed for the job.

Just an example, say someone wants to host a dinner party in their house for friends but they don't have food, china, stove, table and chairs nor the space so they go ahead and host it at their friend's house without their friend's consent. That friend comes home to find everyone in their house, eating their food and using their furniture and fine china. No, logically things don't happen that way in the real world. If you're going to host a dinner party, one makes sure they can accommodate. DM was accommodating IMO. He made sure he planned it out and made "accommodations" everything from how they were going to get to TB's house (in his Yukon), to who was going to drive TB's truck and who would follow in the Yukon, who was going to murder TB and how, where and how to disposed of TB, hide and dispose of evidence. In his head he had it planned with MS but forgot to tell MS TB was going to be murdered. IMO if anyone thinks DM was a weakling in that sort of way, to be taken advantage of by MS, they may want to reconsider. IMO DM was arrogant (showing up without a disguise at TB's), figured he would never get caught, thinking his description was too average, whereas MS was a chicken sh@t and acted suspicious/nervous/scared (wearing his hood up).

IF TB's truck was the motive and MS was the one who wanted TB's truck (which I don't believe), why would he hide the truck inside a trailer belonging to DM, in MB's driveway, trusting DM would let him have it after the fact? And where in order for him to get access to it, he took the chance DM may not have given him the keys to the trailer, or MB may not have allowed him to tow the trailer away not knowing something valuable was inside and knowing it was DM's belongings, without DM's consent. IF it was MS who wanted the truck, he would have made certain it was in a place which he had easy access to it, like in his mother's garage for example. Also, DM got the incinerator for a purpose and IMO it wasn't for incinerating animals or brush on his farmland property, where he likely rarely visited. There are more inexpensive and legal ways to dispose of or incinerating small animals and brush than an official animal incinerator.

It would not surprise me to find out DM considered using the incinerator to get rid of his father also, then claiming his father disappeared. But being the planner and intelligent guy that he is, I am sure he would have given it much thought, weighing everything out, and came to realize he would have blown the whistle on LB's disappearance. LE would have certainly put two and two together then and DM knew they would. DM had two people closely connected to him who just up and disappeared. I am most certain LE would not have brushed off WM's disappearance the way they did with LB. A man with great wealth just up and disappears? LE would not have let WM's case slip through their fingers, no way, no how.
ALL JMO.

I'm curious as to see your assumptions will be right or not.

 

[Arnie M]

.

Another one of my theories is that DM on his own would not have become a truck thief and thrill killer. But partnered with MS they lead each other down that road. And if I was to guess who had the original (evil) idea it was MS and DM became a willing follower who had the wherewithal to put the plan in place.

 

[Tamarind]

I wasn't wanting a poll. And could care less about prizes . It would be more about seeing how right or wrong our personal theories are. Stand up and be counted before the trial , and that is not easy to do , takes some guts.

Some of us in my opinion, believe that there may be several possibilities. These possibilities have been voiced over many months. Sometimes those views have been ridiculed or minimized. I think all views have merit. I also think it takes a lot of guts to keep pointing out any opinion that clashes with most other opinions, be it at a party or on a site such as this. Thats JMO.

For example I think WM stumbled upon what DM (& MS) did to LB and that is one reason WM needed to be eliminated. I could be completely wrong but at least I put some thought and skin into it. Easy to be an expert after the trial.

That is a valid opinion Arnie. I don't happen to share it and I believe that WM either committed suicide or was bumped off by a hitman or similar.

It has always been my understanding that Websleuths was a gathering of armchair detectives helping to find missing people and educate ourselves about crime in our communities. We educate ourselves by realizing how right we were or how wrong we were.

Yes and I am sure when the time comes we will realize one way or the other whether we were right or wrong or whether we have further questions. Again JMO

<modsnip>

 

[Tamarind]

.

Another one of my theories is that DM on his own would not have become a truck thief and thrill killer. But partnered with MS they lead each other down that road. And if I was to guess who had the original (evil) idea it was MS and DM became a willing follower who had the wherewithal to put the plan in place.

Another valid opinion Arnie. If I had to guess I would say that DM was a good connection/link according to quite a few people and his generosity and good nature has got him drawn into something that he would not have expected. Criminal minds are drawn to money and the ability to use whatever and whoever they can to achieve prominence and gain. I happen to think the airport is a factor here. Without details and evidence we can only surmise, but whatever any of us surmises is as valid as the next. Like you said, we are all armchair detectives trying to make sense of what little we know. HTH

 

[Tamarind]

The way I see it is, the planner and leader has it all worked out; how it's all going to go down, where and/or how they are going to dispose of a body, hide the truck, dispose of evidence and whatnot because they are the person with the means to do so. DM had everything needed for the job.

Or someone knew where to find what they needed.

Just an example, say someone wants to host a dinner party in their house for friends but they don't have food, china, stove, table and chairs nor the space so they go ahead and host it at their friend's house without their friend's consent. That friend comes home to find everyone in their house, eating their food and using their furniture and fine china. No, logically things don't happen that way in the real world. If you're going to host a dinner party, one makes sure they can accommodate. DM was accommodating IMO. He made sure he planned it out and made "accommodations" everything from how they were going to get to TB's house (in his Yukon), to who was going to drive TB's truck and who would follow in the Yukon, who was going to murder TB and how, where and how to disposed of TB, hide and dispose of evidence. In his head he had it planned with MS but forgot to tell MS TB was going to be murdered. IMO if anyone thinks DM was a weakling in that sort of way, to be taken advantage of by MS, they may want to reconsider. IMO DM was arrogant (showing up without a disguise at TB's), figured he would never get caught, thinking his description was too average, whereas MS was a chicken sh@t and acted suspicious/nervous/scared (wearing his hood up).

Showing up to murder someone without a disguise is not arrogant in my opinion, it would be downright stupid. Thats one reason why I dont believe DM had any idea what was going on or about to. Wearing a hood up could be habit or to shield his face, if its the latter that would be more telling IMO.

IF TB's truck was the motive and MS was the one who wanted TB's truck (which I don't believe), why would he hide the truck inside a trailer belonging to DM, in MB's driveway, trusting DM would let him have it after the fact? And where in order for him to get access to it, he took the chance DM may not have given him the keys to the trailer, or MB may not have allowed him to tow the trailer away not knowing something valuable was inside and knowing it was DM's belongings, without DM's consent. IF it was MS who wanted the truck, he would have made certain it was in a place which he had easy access to it, like in his mother's garage for example. Also, DM got the incinerator for a purpose and IMO it wasn't for incinerating animals or brush on his farmland property, where he likely rarely visited. There are more inexpensive and legal ways to dispose of or incinerating small animals and brush than an official animal incinerator.

There are simpler ways to hide bodies than burning them and leaving an incinerator out and moved, for all to see, IMO. Lets say MS wanted the truck and would have put it somewhere that he had access to. We know that the truck was somewhere, before being taken to DM's mothers house. What if that truck was somewhere that someone didnt want anyone to find it. We know that DM's tattoo was being pushed via the media, so what better place to put all the evidence, than at the door of the guy with the tattoo. Brilliant. Why not even ask the guy with the tattoo to help you, especially if the guy with the tattoo is feeling that he is a suspect and is scared. I'm not saying I think this is the case as I think there are a few scenarios that could play out. But where was the truck prior to MB's driveway and why was it moved? Why was the incinerator moved? There are still a lot of why's for me in this case and based on this I find certain opinions unlikely. JMO

It would not surprise me to find out DM considered using the incinerator to get rid of his father also, then claiming his father disappeared. But being the planner and intelligent guy that he is, I am sure he would have given it much thought, weighing everything out, and came to realize he would have blown the whistle on LB's disappearance. LE would have certainly put two and two together then and DM knew they would. DM had two people closely connected to him who just up and disappeared. I am most certain LE would not have brushed off WM's disappearance the way they did with LB. A man with great wealth just up and disappears? LE would not have let WM's case slip through their fingers, no way, no how.
ALL JMO.

I dont believe the incinerator was bought for bodies. I also don't believe WM stumbled on anything. I think he may well have noticed something that may harm his family, and suffered the consequences, or he committed suicide as LE first determined. JMO

 

[MsSherlock]

Another valid opinion Arnie. If I had to guess I would say that DM was a good connection/link according to quite a few people and his generosity and good nature has got him drawn into something that he would not have expected. Criminal minds are drawn to money and the ability to use whatever and whoever they can to achieve prominence and gain. I happen to think the airport is a factor here. Without details and evidence we can only surmise, but whatever any of us surmises is as valid as the next. Like you said, we are all armchair detectives trying to make sense of what little we know. HTH

I totally agree that at this point we're simply armchair detectives trying to make sense of the little bits and pieces that we do know. One thing that we can say with certainty is that two 1st degree murder trials are right around the corner and that in 5 or 6 months from now we will know what really happened to TB and who was responsible for it. We will have been exposed to the evidence LE has, heard sworn testimony from the witnesses and MSM will not only be flooded with a plethora of factual information, I'm sure that as the story of DM & MS unfold before us, MSM will be shining their spotlight into the lives of some of the witnesses as well. I've never has to testify at a trial like this, but I imagine that you can't really prepare yourself for the stress or publicity.

IMHO, LE has done a brilliant job at keeping a lid on this case. The media has done a great job adhering to the PB. Even the change of Judges seems to have gone without a hitch. Considering that we've all been sitting in various TB/DM/MS WS forums for so long, these next few months are sure to fly by (especially with the holidays in the fold). Yes, I have my theory on DM & MS but hey, we're almost at the finish line so anything I think at this point is irrelevant. If DM does emerge innocent, carrying the Citizen of the Year Award, I'll be the first one to apologize and admit I was wrong. MOO

 

[matou]

Yes, I'll gladly eat crow if I'm wrong on thinking DM is directly involved in the death of 3 people. I feel very badly for all of his friends and family who will have their lives exposed based on the horrible things he did. Same goes for the friends and family of Smich and Noudga. JMO

 

[matou]

Maybe we should create a poll thread asking if posters will eat crow if they are wrong about who is responsible for the deaths of Laura, Wayne and Tim?

 

[Tamarind]

Maybe we should create a poll thread asking if posters will eat crow if they are wrong about who is responsible for the deaths of Laura, Wayne and Tim?

I won't be expecting anyone to eat crow. I think whichever way the cookie crumbles, it will need no explanation as to who was wrong or why. That's why I favour presuming innocence, it keeps things neutral and I can then follow along with any evidence as it presents itself.JMO

 

[Alethea Dice]

BBM

Athlea..Just curious why you would think that any "layman", if they were swept into it, would even know the law with regard to first degree murder charge during a kidnapping and have that fear? I know I sure as heck didn't until this case. JMO

Sorry, I think my fingers were trying to catch up to my thoughts and missed a little in the middle there. What I was trying to say was that I can see if there is a fear of reporting something like that, even if one was only a spectator or wasn't aware ahead of time that it was going to happen. Unless that person has some injuries showing they tried to stop it from happening, their thoughts could likely go straight to the fact that they will be one of the prime suspects and may have a hard time proving they weren't involved. A person caught in that position could well be only thinking that murder is murder, and not distinguishing between what degree they will be charged with. Only that they will be charged and likely going to jail for a very long time. So they panic and go along with the aftermath. If this will be the story of either one or both, without more evidence of the truth of their story, the truth will be no more apparent than if neither turns on the other.

JMO