General Discussion and Theories #4

[Alethea Dice]

How was it not treated like any other "ordinary" missing persons case? What do you mean, WHY was it done differently? I'll see if I can explain what I think you're asking. Otherwise maybe you can clarify if you don't think my explanation is sufficient.

When TB failed to return home to the two people who meant the world to him, shortly after leaving with two strange and suspicious looking men, on a test drive, SB's gut instinct told her something was amiss. Perhaps the moment she laid eyes on the two men who showed up at their home, she felt something wasn't right. Then when she tried to call TB's cell phone and he did not answer, she knew something was wrong and contacted LE. LE had no choice but to put out a BOLO for a missing man and his truck. I don't believe this case was handled any different then any other missing persons case by LE. IMO it was the many media outlets that quickly picked up on this story and got the information out there to the public. When it is not in someone's character, to just out of the blue, disappear, not come home when they say they will be right back, and they do not answer their cell phone, IMO that is a good enough reason to contact LE don't you? If you found yourself in SB's situation, would you not make do the same as SB; ask LE make a public announcement requesting the public to BOLO for your husband and his truck? If so, I doubt it would be handled any different then TB's case. Let's just hope the media would show just as much interest also. IIRC and according to the article below, it was 12 hours before LE made their public announcement. ALL MOO.

"Tim has been stolen from us. Tim's world revolves around our daughter. I know she is number one in his mind right now."

The last time she saw him was Monday evening.

"He smiled at me and said he would be right back. I have not seen him since," she said.

"It was just a truck, a stupid truck. You don't need him, but I do. Our daughter needs her daddy. Please let him come home."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...lton-man-pleads-for-his-safe-return-1.1336180

Are you addressing this to the wrong person? It was Arnie who suggested it was treated differently. It appears that Tamarind is just questioning if it was treated differently, then why and how. Here is the original post...

If the Bosma disappearance had been treated like an ordinary missing persons case , and the truck like a normal auto theft , nobody would have been arrested and the whole thing would be a cold case today

Kavanagh deserves credit for for his instincts and leadership in this case. The eventual verdicts are beside the point. He did his part , and did it well.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?285787-General-Discussion-and-Theories-4&p=12105714#post12105714

 

[swedie]

As I said, mistakes have been made before. I believe we won't truly know the answer to your question until some point in the future. How would anyone know the answer to something that has yet to occur?

True...I guess "we" could be considered your"anyone", but as far as the Crown and AG are concerned, they certainly believe the end result will bring about convictions for the accused. Don't forget, they have first hand knowledge/evidence on this case. You're right, mistakes have been made before, but not in cases where direct indictments were requested and granted. HTH and MOO.

Most certainly RP, DM's attorney knows why the DI was granted in his client's case. Or at least he should've known...unless he was not doing the job DM is paying big bucks to do. He had discovery/evidence for how long at the time of the AD's DI decision...at least over a year. Perhaps his statement came from the fact that no defined reason was given for the DI other then there is good evidence that the person that is accused will be convicted. Guess RP wanted more specific answers? Again MOO.

“There are … many very serious cases that are presently in Ontario under this particular Attorney-General that are not being preferred, there is no direct indictment. People are getting preliminary hearings,” Mr. Pillay said. “We can’t know why this case is treated this way and other cases are treated differently because we’re not given that.”

“The power is an extraordinary one and is used infrequently in Ontario,” the 2005 Crown Policy Manual says. “Generally, counsel may make a request for the Attorney-General’s consent to a direct indictment where there exist compelling circumstances which require, in the interests of justice, that the matter be brought to trial forthwith, bearing in mind the strength of the Crown’s case and the seriousness of the charge.”

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ght-to-trial-in-bosmas-death/article19633356/

Ontario Attorney General, Madeleine Meilleur: “The provision is there if there is a solid case and justice will be better served by going directly to trial.”

Attorney General Madeleine Meilleur approved the decision to skip a preliminary hearing, suggesting the evidence will support the decision.

AG Meilleur: “When this procedure is supported, it’s because there is good evidence that the person that is accused will be convicted.”

http://www.chch.com/millard-smitch-will-go-straight-trial/

 

[swedie]

Are you addressing this to the wrong person? It was Arnie who suggested it was treated differently. It appears that Tamarind is just questioning if it was treated differently, then why and how. Here is the original post...



http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?285787-General-Discussion-and-Theories-4&p=12105714#post12105714

No. I was addressing the first paragraph of Tamarind's post. Tamarind asked:

Why was it not treated as an ordinary missing persons case and the truck like a normal auto theft? I thought it was a missing persons case and a truck theft, according to police and press. I am wondering what was done differently and more importantly IF it was done differently, WHY was it done differently.

...and I responded HTH.

 

[Alethea Dice]

Ooops, sorry, the GG the queen's representative doesn't exactly go about dishing out awards for high school sports, does he?

No, the Governor General doesn't issue awards just for high school sports. He does, however, issue awards to recognize exceptional service and dedication above and beyond the call of duty, leadership and commitment to the community.

Kudos to Matt Kavanagh for his service, not only during the ongoing TB investigation, but also the John Daly and Michael Walsh cases, his involvement in coordinating the sharing of information throughout Ontario and in the MCM, and his community involvement in mentoring young people to develop positive relationships between the youth and law enforcement.

 

[Alethea Dice]

No. I was addressing the first paragraph of Tamarind's post. Tamarind asked:

Why was it not treated as an ordinary missing persons case and the truck like a normal auto theft? I thought it was a missing persons case and a truck theft, according to police and press. I am wondering what was done differently and more importantly IF it was done differently, WHY was it done differently.

...and I responded HTH.

Oh, so you're saying it WAS treated differently than an ordinary missing person case? And you're trying to explain why and how it was treated differently?? Confusing since, in your first paragraph, you seem to be asking the same questions that Tamarind asked.

:thinking:

 

[SnooperDuper]

I think TB's case was probably handled like any other case with similar circumstances. Things didn't seem right, right away, and LE responded.

What was different about the case is stuff like this:

[video=twitter;334350071263010816]https://twitter.com/pmharper/status/334350071263010816[/video]

The case caught everyone's attention.

How can DM be "100% not guilty" and not even able to make bail?

 

[cansleuther]

I think TB's case was probably handled like any other case with similar circumstances. Things didn't seem right, right away, and LE responded.

What was different about the case is stuff like this:

[video=twitter;334350071263010816]https://twitter.com/pmharper/status/334350071263010816[/video]

The case caught everyone's attention.

How can DM be "100% not guilty" and not even able to make bail?

It isn't unusual for PM Harper to send his condolences to families affected by tragedy. He also expressed his sympathy for the families of Hailey Dunbar-Blanchette and her father Terry Blanchette:

A statement was sent out on behalf of Prime Minister Stephen Harper on Wednesday.

“Laureen and I offer our deepest condolences to the Dunbar and Blanchette families for their heart-breaking loss. We are praying for them at this difficult time.”

http://globalnews.ca/news/2223389/outpouring-of-grief-over-death-of-two-year-old-hailey-dunbar-blanchette/


And for the families of Nathan O'Brien and his grandparents Al and Kathy Liknes:

Laureen & I are saddened by the tragic news from Calgary. Our thoughts & prayers are with the O'Brien & Liknes families during this time.

https://twitter.com/pmharper/status/488784837437063168?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

 

[SnooperDuper]

It isn't unusual for PM Harper to send his condolences to families affected by tragedy. He also expressed his sympathy for the families of Hailey Dunbar-Blanchette and her father Terry Blanchette:



http://globalnews.ca/news/2223389/outpouring-of-grief-over-death-of-two-year-old-hailey-dunbar-blanchette/


And for the families of Nathan O'Brien and his grandparents Al and Kathy Liknes:



https://twitter.com/pmharper/status/488784837437063168?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

Interestingly enough, all three cases were high-profile murders.

OTOH Harper hasn't said anything for the Neville-Lake family, 4 of which were killed in a criminal accident.

 

[swedie]

Oh, so you're saying it WAS treated differently than an ordinary missing person case? And you're trying to explain why and how it was treated differently?? Confusing since, in your first paragraph, you seem to be asking the same questions that Tamarind asked.

:thinking:

Perhaps I should have asked Tamarind first and foremost to clarify her meaning of "ordinary and normal". Those words in themselves are odd and puzzling words to be using for someone who has never displayed this type of behaviour in the past, to go missing, wouldn't you agree AD? Instead I questioned her with her own questions and said: I'll see if I can explain what I think you're asking. Otherwise maybe you can clarify if you don't think my explanation is sufficient.
I believe is Tamarind has any confusion over my post, she will let me know. And I hope she can give me a case or example of an ordinary missing persons case and a normal truck theft (with its' owner also missing) might look like. HTH and MOO.

And no I'm not saying TB's case was handled any different then other missing persons case. Sorry you're confused AD. Tamarind said this case was not treated as an ordinary missing persons case and handled differently. I commented how this case was handled by LE. Swiftly (which I explained above) and with the help of the media, as they were quick in getting word out to the public, which does happen in most case, if not all case where there is great concern and it's out of the norm that a person would go missing. Perhap should I have made comparison to another case, you wouldn't be confused by my post above? In TS's case, LE was quick (along with MSM) to make the public aware. So IF Tamarind is mistaken or assuming TB's case was handled differently (timing of releasing information to the public or great media attention), that's incorrect. Her words: Why was it not treated as an ordinary missing persons case and the truck like a normal auto theft? I thought it was a missing persons case and a truck theft, according to police and press. I am wondering what was done differently and more importantly IF it was done differently, WHY was it done differently.

LE reported TS missing to the public IIRC early the next morning of her disappearance, (this MSM report is at 12:10 pm, there may have been LE pressor release earlier), but LE and searchers were deployed, actively searching for TS as soon as she was reported missing that evening and her search did not stop until she was found, unfortunately deceased, just as in TB's case. MOO.

Oxford Community Police said they have video surveillance footage from a nearby high school that shows a girl who looks like Tori walking by the school on Fyfe Avenue with an adult. The footage was shot the same day Tori disappeared. Oxford police worked overnight Wednesday and all day Thursday interviewing residents, searching the area and conducting door-to-door canvasses.

They are getting help from Woodstock firefighters and neighbouring police forces. London police are sending their specialized search-and-rescue team, as well as a canine unit to help scour the area where the girl was last seen.

The Ontario Provincial Police have deployed a helicopter to search from the air. Waterloo regional police are also helping out.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/major-search-launched-for-missing-ontario-girl-1.804960

ALL MOO and HTH to clarify your confusion AD.

 

[Arnie M]

Are you addressing this to the wrong person? It was Arnie who suggested it was treated differently. It appears that Tamarind is just questioning if it was treated differently, then why and how. Here is the original post...

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?285787-General-Discussion-and-Theories-4&p=12105714#post12105714

Gee whizz everybody , stop arguing over nothing , the point I made was Kavanagh is to be commended for realizing the Bosma case was more than a routine missing person or truck theft.

 

[Alethea Dice]

Perhaps I should have asked Tamarind first and foremost to clarify her meaning of "ordinary and normal". Those words in themselves are odd and puzzling words to be using for someone who has never displayed this type of behaviour in the past, to go missing, wouldn't you agree AD? Instead I questioned her with her own questions and said: I'll see if I can explain what I think you're asking. Otherwise maybe you can clarify if you don't think my explanation is sufficient.
I believe is Tamarind has any confusion over my post, she will let me know. And I hope she can give me a case or example of an ordinary missing persons case and a normal truck theft (with its' owner also missing) might look like. HTH and MOO.

And no I'm not saying TB's case was handled any different then other missing persons case. Sorry you're confused AD. Tamarind said this case was not treated as an ordinary missing persons case and handled differently. I commented how this case was handled by LE. Swiftly (which I explained above) and with the help of the media, as they were quick in getting word out to the public, which does happen in most case, if not all case where there is great concern and it's out of the norm that a person would go missing. Perhap should I have made comparison to another case, you wouldn't be confused by my post above? In TS's case, LE was quick (along with MSM) to make the public aware. So IF Tamarind is mistaken or assuming TB's case was handled differently (timing of releasing information to the public or great media attention), that's incorrect. Her words: Why was it not treated as an ordinary missing persons case and the truck like a normal auto theft? I thought it was a missing persons case and a truck theft, according to police and press. I am wondering what was done differently and more importantly IF it was done differently, WHY was it done differently.

LE reported TS missing to the public IIRC early the next morning of her disappearance, (this MSM report is at 12:10 pm, there may have been LE pressor release earlier), but LE and searchers were deployed, actively searching for TS as soon as she was reported missing that evening and her search did not stop until she was found, unfortunately deceased, just as in TB's case. MOO.

Oxford Community Police said they have video surveillance footage from a nearby high school that shows a girl who looks like Tori walking by the school on Fyfe Avenue with an adult. The footage was shot the same day Tori disappeared. Oxford police worked overnight Wednesday and all day Thursday interviewing residents, searching the area and conducting door-to-door canvasses.

They are getting help from Woodstock firefighters and neighbouring police forces. London police are sending their specialized search-and-rescue team, as well as a canine unit to help scour the area where the girl was last seen.

The Ontario Provincial Police have deployed a helicopter to search from the air. Waterloo regional police are also helping out.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/major-search-launched-for-missing-ontario-girl-1.804960

ALL MOO and HTH to clarify your confusion AD.

Well, let me try to explain why I am confused. Then I will stay out of it because it is Tamarind and Arnie's conversation after all.

"Ordinary" and "normal" were Arnie's words that Tamarind was repeating. The parts of Tamarind's statement that you didn't bold above are where she is saying that she thought it was treated as a missing person and stolen truck case at the beginning and, if it wasn't, then why wasn't it and what was done differently.

As I read it:

Arnie had stated that if it was treated like an "ordinary" missing person case and a "normal" truck theft, nobody would have been arrested and it would be a cold case today. So Tamarind asked why it wasn't treated like that because she/he thought that it was according to the police and the press. And further she/he asked, IF it was done differently, then what was done differently and why.

Your reply seems to take only a part of Tamarind's post and read into it that Tamarind is the one who suggested that it wasn't treated normally, when she was actually questioning why Arnie said that it was treated differently.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?285787-General-Discussion-and-Theories-4&p=12105798#post12105798

Hope that makes sense. That's the best that I can explain it.

 

[Alethea Dice]

Gee whizz everybody , stop arguing over nothing , the point I made was Kavanagh is to be commended for realizing the Bosma case was more than a routine missing person or truck theft.

Who's arguing? I'm just trying to clear up some confusion and misunderstanding. :silenced:

 

[Alethea Dice]

Interestingly enough, all three cases were high-profile murders.

OTOH Harper hasn't said anything for the Neville-Lake family, 4 of which were killed in a criminal accident.

Wouldn't it be a little difficult for him to hear of all the cases that aren't high-profile? Or to send condolences for all fatalities caused by drunk drivers?

 

[SnooperDuper]

Wouldn't it be a little difficult for him to hear of all the cases that aren't high-profile? Or to send condolences for all fatalities caused by drunk drivers?

This is a high-profile case. MM is a billionaire that had his bachelor party in Vegas, flew home in a private jet, and got into his own car, still drunk...at the scene he twice blew 2X over the limit.

I think that Harper speaks to the murder cases because the Conservative platform is to be Tough On Crime. Harper has increased the penalties for murderers, but left drunk drivers alone.

Harper has a habit of speaking out on the most notorious murders.

 

[Alethea Dice]

This is a high-profile case. MM is a billionaire that had his bachelor party in Vegas, flew home in a private jet, and got into his own car, still drunk...at the scene he twice blew 2X over the limit.

I think that Harper speaks to the murder cases because the Conservative platform is to be Tough On Crime. Harper has increased the penalties for murderers, but left drunk drivers alone.

Harper has a habit of speaking out on the most notorious murders.

Of course. All politicians tweets are going to be based on their particular issues. That's to be expected.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/how-harper-mulcair-and-trudeau-use-twitter/article22807535/

Thomas Mulcair, Kathleen Wynne, Andrea Horwath also offered their condolences to TB's family. (Not the guy with the nice hair though.) I'm not finding any who offered condolences to the Neville-Lake family.

 

[SnooperDuper]

The MM case is kind of interesting with respect to DM. MM is 29, a director of a family company worth more than a billion.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/vaughan-crash-children-dead-1.3246419

SP was recently sentenced to 5 years for a drunk driving crash that killed 2:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...ison-for-deadly-drunk-driving-crash-1.3259152

What will be the penalty for MM? Will his wealth and occupational status affect the penalty?

 

[Alethea Dice]

The MM case is kind of interesting with respect to DM. MM is 29, a director of a family company worth more than a billion.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/vaughan-crash-children-dead-1.3246419

SP was recently sentenced to 5 years for a drunk driving crash that killed 2:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...ison-for-deadly-drunk-driving-crash-1.3259152

What will be the penalty for MM? Will his wealth and occupational status affect the penalty?

Wait 3 years and we may find out. Funny thing about that Jeep catching fire though.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Wait 3 years and we may find out. Funny thing about that Jeep catching fire though.

MM's family empire is worth $1.8B, about 150X the Millard family fortune. Perhaps MM's family has the scale of wealth that affords them some privacy, unlike DM's. MM's family has made some generous donations to the community in the past, though. Having part of the hospital named after you is a bit different from adventures with the seals.

I wonder if WM's animal charity and its activities would be legal in today's climate?

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/07/10/tax-audits-canadian-charities_n_5575130.html

Harper has cracked down on political activism by charities by threatening to remove their charitable status if they get involved in advocacy.

Perhaps this is the kind of thing that made Christie Blatchford nearly write an apology for MM:

http://news.nationalpost.com/full-c...id-mistakes-and-sometimes-deadly-consequences

We haven't seen that sort of compassion in the press for DM.

 

[Tamarind]

Perhaps I should have asked Tamarind first and foremost to clarify her meaning of "ordinary and normal". Those words in themselves are odd and puzzling words to be using for someone who has never displayed this type of behaviour in the past, to go missing, wouldn't you agree AD? Instead I questioned her with her own questions and said: I'll see if I can explain what I think you're asking. Otherwise maybe you can clarify if you don't think my explanation is sufficient.
I believe is Tamarind has any confusion over my post, she will let me know. And I hope she can give me a case or example of an ordinary missing persons case and a normal truck theft (with its' owner also missing) might look like. HTH and MOO.

I am sorry my post has been misconstrued, but I do believe it was self explanatory. As has been so kindly clarified, I had believed the TB case was treated as a regular missing person/ stolen truck.
Only when Arnie had suggested it was treated differently and that's why the case in his/her opinion has been solved, did I ask why /how it had been treated differently.

I would still like to know whats been different about the investigation of this case, aside from the obvious mass news coverage, especially when you consider that LB was forgotten about as soon as she was reported missing, for some unknown reason. I would like to know why someone like MK didn't feel the need to pick up on that case and do a stellar investigation.

And no I'm not saying TB's case was handled any different then other missing persons case. Sorry you're confused AD. Tamarind said this case was not treated as an ordinary missing persons case and handled differently. I commented how this case was handled by LE. Swiftly (which I explained above) and with the help of the media, as they were quick in getting word out to the public, which does happen in most case, if not all case where there is great concern and it's out of the norm that a person would go missing.

No I did not say this case was treated differently to an ordinary case. That would be the post that Arnie made, I am sorry it has caused such confusion for you. I think it''s out of the norm for most people to go missing and anyone who leaves a loved pet and a box of money with family she wasn't living with is highly unusual in my opinion and was a cause for immediate investigation, which sadly did not happen.

Perhap should I have made comparison to another case, you wouldn't be confused by my post above? In TS's case, LE was quick (along with MSM) to make the public aware. So IF Tamarind is mistaken or assuming TB's case was handled differently (timing of releasing information to the public or great media attention), that's incorrect. Her words: Why was it not treated as an ordinary missing persons case and the truck like a normal auto theft? I thought it was a missing persons case and a truck theft, according to police and press. I am wondering what was done differently and more importantly IF it was done differently, WHY was it done differently.

IF the TB case was handled differently I would still like to know why/how.

LE reported TS missing to the public IIRC early the next morning of her disappearance, (this MSM report is at 12:10 pm, there may have been LE pressor release earlier), but LE and searchers were deployed, actively searching for TS as soon as she was reported missing that evening and her search did not stop until she was found, unfortunately deceased, just as in TB's case. MOO.

Oxford Community Police said they have video surveillance footage from a nearby high school that shows a girl who looks like Tori walking by the school on Fyfe Avenue with an adult. The footage was shot the same day Tori disappeared. Oxford police worked overnight Wednesday and all day Thursday interviewing residents, searching the area and conducting door-to-door canvasses.

They are getting help from Woodstock firefighters and neighbouring police forces. London police are sending their specialized search-and-rescue team, as well as a canine unit to help scour the area where the girl was last seen.

The Ontario Provincial Police have deployed a helicopter to search from the air. Waterloo regional police are also helping out.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/major-search-launched-for-missing-ontario-girl-1.804960

ALL MOO and HTH to clarify your confusion AD.

I'm not sure how the TS case fits into this.

 

[Tamarind]

MM's family empire is worth $1.8B, about 150X the Millard family fortune. Perhaps MM's family has the scale of wealth that affords them some privacy, unlike DM's. MM's family has made some generous donations to the community in the past, though. Having part of the hospital named after you is a bit different from adventures with the seals.

Personally I would rather be remembered for saving seals than have some ostentatious event such as a hospital being named after me. Just my opinion. People with money often make donations, they get tax breaks for doing so too I believe.

I wonder if WM's animal charity and its activities would be legal in today's climate?

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/07/10/tax-audits-canadian-charities_n_5575130.html

I think a lot of things are legal that shouldn't be. Trust funds are an interesting topic for illegality and how to hide it. IMO

Harper has cracked down on political activism by charities by threatening to remove their charitable status if they get involved in advocacy.

Maybe he just wants the money donated but silence any voice. That is interesting IMO.

We haven't seen that sort of compassion in the press for DM.

No we haven't and that's interesting too.JMO