General Discussion and Theories #4

[Tamarind]

Interesting observation and point Tamarind. All these men committed multiple murders, were all found guilty of first degree murder, minus LM on multiple murders. Of course unless we're counting the animal killings but obviously the court wasn't. Who knows, maybe LM had other human victims also that no one knows about. I guess the same could apply to all these murderers. Oh and DM and MS, they haven't had their trail yet, where the others have. That doesn't make them not guilty though. Because we are a fair and legal society with laws and penalties, we'll have to wait about six more months for the judicial system to make the official ruling. MOO.

Yes those were convicted, some of the ones below were also convicted, wrongly.
Canada
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/canada-s-wrongful-convictions-1.783998
USA
http://listverse.com/2013/03/27/10-people-who-were-wrongfully-accused-of-heinous-crimes/

Some other interesting reading:

http://www.citynews.ca/2014/11/28/m...against-toronto-man-after-12-years-in-prison/

more interesting reading:
http://www.citynews.ca/2014/11/28/m...against-toronto-man-after-12-years-in-prison/

Robert Baltovich

 

[SnooperDuper]

A fascinating story about parents whose child was convicted of two murders as a teen, who refuse to believe that their son is guilty.

They still give interviews to journalists all these years later, in their attempts to cast doubt on their son’s guilty convictions from 1992 and to advance what they say is the more likely story.

Their account involves dubious claims, convoluted conspiracies. The Lords say two university students from China murdered Leatherbarrow and Huenemann. They say they “were brought over” for the deed by a Canadian businessman recruited by Ottawa to spy on the Chinese government.

“It’s not a fantasy we’ve invented,” says David Lord, who lacks any credible evidence. “We think the RCMP know who did (the murders) and (Canadian Security Intelligence Service) has that information.”

lol I think that defense is also perfectly applicable to DM and MS!

This despite the fact that one of his accomplices, David Muir, admitted to the two murders after their 1992 jury trial and convictions. And despite the fact that Derik continues to apply for parole, while claiming he’s innocent.

That’s not a recipe for success. Derik’s been turned down for parole, each time. His first-degree murder convictions in B.C. Supreme Court have been upheld by every appellate court.

Meanwhile, the Lords have depleted their savings. They sold their house in Saanich years ago, and now live in a tiny dilapidated home about a 30-minute drive from Matsqui Institution, the medium-security prison where Derik is incarcerated.

Both in their late 60s, the Lords lead lonely, subsistence-level lives. They rely on their old age pensions for income and send whatever they can to their son in prison. “We’re just about done. There’s no money left,” David says.

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/c...rents-despite-hard-proof-believe-hes-innocent

 

[Juballee]

I guess we are all different. Personally, when I hear a story of such sadness, I feel bad for the humans involved and the struggles they face. It is a reminder that we all have our own hardships in life, in my opinion. I can't imagine finding the stories of other people's pain to be entertaining, let alone something that would make me 'lol', but to each his own, right?

 

[SnooperDuper]

I guess we are all different. Personally, when I hear a story of such sadness, I feel bad for the humans involved and the struggles they face. It is a reminder that we all have our own hardships in life, in my opinion. I can't imagine finding the stories of other people's pain to be entertaining, let alone something that would make me 'lol', but to each his own, right?

Well no one is forcing them to think they way that they do. There's no mind control going on that says they must accept that their son is guilty. They are free to believe whatever they like, but they must accept the consequences of that worldview. They are accepting their son's word that he is not guilty, and dire poverty, hand in hand. Perhaps the real cruelty lies in what their son did to his parents? Certainly is someone is willing to kill a parent like DM did, they are willing to lie to their remaining parent. Someone like that knows no moral boundaries.

I guess the question is, how do you avoid being manipulated by someone so evil if your own son is a murderer and a liar, that lies to your face?

Therapy. I think in that case, you need to seek out the professionals. They will teach you how to deal with and separate yourself from someone that manipulative and evil.

 

[ABro]

<rsbm>

Pretty sad that it still takes over 2 years to go to trial when the accused admits to the crime and the only question is whether his mental disorders qualified him as not responsible.

The delays in that case were largely due to Magnotta's lawyer not the corown.

The fact that it was an insanity defence made the case more complicated not less.

 

[ABro]

I can't imagine finding the stories of other people's pain to be entertaining.

Well that puts you at odds with Shakespeare, Homer, the Grimm Brothers, Flaubert, Goethe, etc.

Not to mention the creators of Law and Order, The Wire, Breaking Bad, etc.

The stories that fascinate us are about good and evil, and that involves pain and suffering.

No conflict = no story.

 

[ABro]

Or maybe he did meet their expectations. He certainly did when he was 14 and took to the skies solo. He obviously stood in for his father and helped him when he met people on business. His grandfather left his estate to both WM and DM not just WM apparently. So nothing to suggest DM was not good enough to inherit. WM went with DM to view the farm that was purchased, so obviously they were on great terms.

I am curious as to where this claim comes from. It has never been reported. Do you have a source?

This is not the first time you have tossed in comments, which seem designed to convey that you have a personal connection to the case.

I also remember being struck by this one:

Or maybe its an attempt to make it look like his handwriting. Strange as he is known to put capitals where they don't belong not omit them. Just an observation.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...na-Noudga-Accessory-3&p=11611241#post11611241

Just an observation of my own.

 

[Tamarind]

A fascinating story about parents whose child was convicted of two murders as a teen, who refuse to believe that their son is guilty.



lol I think that defense is also perfectly applicable to DM and MS!

Laughing out loud at another persons expense is something I find rather galling. I see no correlation to DM at all. For one thing, his father is dead and has no opinion on his son's current predicament due to his demise. As for MB, we have heard nothing from her and I am sure she knows her son a lot better than anyone else posting on this website. JMO

 

[Tamarind]

I am curious as to where this claim comes from. It has never been reported. Do you have a source?

This is not the first time you have tossed in comments, which seem designed to convey that you have a personal connection to the case.

I also remember being struck by this one:



http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...na-Noudga-Accessory-3&p=11611241#post11611241

Just an observation of my own.

Sorry to disappoint you ABro. That was an observation from another link/post, possibly the Obit. I can assure you, not that I need to bother, I do not know either accused personally. If I did I would not be afraid to disclose it. That's my personality, I don't care what others think. HTH. I am coming from a totally neutral perspective, maybe thats what people can't understand and it makes them go digging up old posts looking for something to satisfy their curiosity ! All MOO

 

[SnooperDuper]

Laughing out loud at another persons expense is something I find rather galling. I see no correlation to DM at all. For one thing, his father is dead and has no opinion on his son's current predicament due to his demise. As for MB, we have heard nothing from her and I am sure she knows her son a lot better than anyone else posting on this website. JMO

No we shouldn't laugh at delusional people, we should pity them.

I was actually laughing at the absurd defense, and how flexible it could be - DM and MS could use it themselves.

Sorry that you misunderstood.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Sorry to disappoint you ABro. That was an observation from another link/post, possibly the Obit. I can assure you, not that I need to bother, I do not know either accused personally. If I did I would not be afraid to disclose it. That's my personality, I don't care what others think. HTH. I am coming from a totally neutral perspective, maybe thats what people can't understand and it makes them go digging up old posts looking for something to satisfy their curiosity ! All MOO

How can it be neutral to post unsupported and inaccurate information that is meant to make DM look good?

I would say that is quite biased and not fair play.

 

[Tamarind]

Well no one is forcing them to think they way that they do. There's no mind control going on that says they must accept that their son is guilty. They are free to believe whatever they like, but they must accept the consequences of that worldview. They are accepting their son's word that he is not guilty, and dire poverty, hand in hand. Perhaps the real cruelty lies in what their son did to his parents? Certainly is someone is willing to kill a parent like DM did, they are willing to lie to their remaining parent. Someone like that knows no moral boundaries.

I guess the question is, how do you avoid being manipulated by someone so evil if your own son is a murderer and a liar, that lies to your face?

Therapy. I think in that case, you need to seek out the professionals. They will teach you how to deal with and separate yourself from someone that manipulative and evil.

Maybe they are right... plenty of wrongful convictions out there. IMO

DM is still waiting for a fair trial.

It's all hypothetical inference until case is heard. IMO

Many people who have never been arrested can be guilty of having no moral boundaries. It can be frustrating.

But, I think MS mother and DM's mother probably know their sons better than most. IMHO

 

[Tamarind]

Well that puts you at odds with Shakespeare, Homer, the Grimm Brothers, Flaubert, Goethe, etc.

Not to mention the creators of Law and Order, The Wire, Breaking Bad, etc.

The stories that fascinate us are about good and evil, and that involves pain and suffering.

No conflict = no story.

Stories and fairy tales have their place. When dealing with real life it becomes sordid and macabre to gloat and enjoy someones angst and pain. It also speaks to someones emotional and psychological make up, when they enjoy watching others suffer. All just my opinion.

Evil may be fascinating in the sense that it is often unbelievable and obscene, but not enjoyable in my opinion unless the one being gratified is sick and twisted. All MOO

 

[SnooperDuper]

I do pity delusional people, it often makes me sick to the stomach when people are delusional to the point of evil. So I am not misunderstanding, I just do not see how it applies to this case. MOO

I don't think the Lords are delusional to the point of evil, they are just delusional. Their son is a liar. What he's done, both to the women he murdered and his parents, is quite evil.

<modsnip> What he is doing to his friends and family by not pleading guilty is quite evil.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Prove MB was a non-custodial parent, I don't believe that has been reported.
Mothers are mothers and they know a lot more than people think. Intuition and closeness ( regardless of distance) can play a part.

There are many references, from MB's neighbours never seeing him around to the direct and simple:

Dellen Millard, who grew up and lived in the Maple Gate Ct. bungalow with his father

That is to say he did not grow up and live with MB. If DM lived with WM then WM had custody.

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2...osma_killing_charged_with_2_more_murders.html

 

[Tamarind]

How can it be neutral to post unsupported and inaccurate information that is meant to make DM look good?

I would say that is quite biased and not fair play.

The post said 'possibly obituary' and it was. HTH

 

[Tamarind]

There are many references, from MB's neighbours never seeing him around to the direct and simple:
That is to say he did not grow up and live with MB. If DM lived with WM then WM had custody.

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2...osma_killing_charged_with_2_more_murders.html

Joint custody arrangements can involve having summers and holidays with a parent, not to forget weekends and evenings. They may have spent many lengthy summers together at the very least.
It is very unlikely that MB was not a regular and constant presence in DM's life IMO.

Maybe the neighbours were focused on their own lives. I couldn't tell you who visits my neighbours, I don't have my head constantly hanging/looking out of the windows.

 

[Tamarind]

I don't think the Lords are delusional to the point of evil, they are just delusional. Their son is a liar. What he's done, both to the women he murdered and his parents, is quite evil.

<modsnip> What he is doing to his friends and family by not pleading guilty is quite evil.

I don't agree that pleading not guilty is evil. I think if someone is not guilty., that's the plea they need to make. Otherwise that suggestion implies that all who plead not guilty are evil liars, which is absolutely ridiculous IMHO

 

[Juballee]

Well that puts you at odds with Shakespeare, Homer, the Grimm Brothers, Flaubert, Goethe, etc.

Not to mention the creators of Law and Order, The Wire, Breaking Bad, etc.

The stories that fascinate us are about good and evil, and that involves pain and suffering.

No conflict = no story.

In in my opinion, there is a big difference between fairy tales and TV dramas and real human beings sharing their personal stories.

Some theorize that over-exposure to the media can desensitize people to make them less likely to distinguish between fantasy and reality. In other words, it can make some people see other humans as just another character to be jeered at or adored, making it easier to add a comment like "Lol" on an human interest article, or to cyber bully people with differing opinions, or to publicly mock a hairstyle that isn't in fashion.

Conflict is great for fiction or gossip, but in reality, conflict causes great distress and pain the world over, and it's not something to laugh about when people are telling their stories of struggle in my opinion. But, as I said, I guess we're all different.

 

[swedie]

I just love when I can make reference to MR's case. Let this video be an excellent example of parent denial at :33, 1:00 and 1:36. She was, and perhaps still is blaming TLM for her adult son abducting, raping, torturing then murdering an innocent little girl. MR had a very shady and troubled life long before TLM came upon the scene. Everyone needs a scapegoat I guess. TLM was MR's scapegoat and that's what his defense tried to hang their hat on because that's all they had. "He's not guilty and it hurts like hell so", then, First of all, my son's innocent, and this could happen to any man that's walking around right now", then, "TLM has wrecked our lives, and I just hope that justice is served and he's freed." Parental denial at its finest. Unfortunately there are way too many parents in denial about their children's bad behaviours. MOO.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/0...hy-defends-son-blames-mclintic_n_1499026.html