General Discussion and Theories #4

[SnooperDuper]

This is the first that I have heard that the phone was not used in the time that it was bought months before, do you have any MSM links to that new piece of information? The last I had heard the phone was alledged to belong to DM or MS because it was used to make calls in Etobicoke in the months prior to the crime.

Calls from Etobicoke cell towers, to the RBEG and the guy who slept through the call, in the days before the murder, are what we know about.

 

[swedie]

It just so happened that MS's friend had a murder kit, everything you need to commit a murder and get away with it (burner phone, trailer, incinerator) and DM feels used and taken advantage of because MS used his murder tools?

I also question MS's coercive powers. Sure, MS might have forced DM at knifepoint back into the truck, but once both vehicles were on the highway DM was free to call 911 and catch MS in the act. Why didn't he?

For that matter, once DM had a chance to speak to LE, he didn't. (I suppose he didn't want to be investigated in case those other two murders popped up.)

I also find it telling that DM's personal letters complain about LE and the media - and not at all about MS, the guy that allegedly sent an innocent man into detention.



The phone was bought months before and not used until it was used in this crime. That shows premeditation. The phone may have been bought for a non-specific criminal purpose, but using the anonymous phone in the crime shows that the perpetrators did not want to be caught and were thinking ahead. That shows premeditation.

DM taken advantage of...:laughcry: I don't believe DM was taken advantage of by anyone in his life. But I do believe DM took advantage of others and used people for his own personal gain kwim. His generosities toward others, he had something to gain IMO. Perhaps that signified the statement given by Deepak about DM being intelligent. DM knew how to "work" people to his advantage. It appears to me DM took advantage of MS. I think we will find out through trial, MS was lead to believe by DM, the plan was only to steal TB's truck, but DM had further plans of murdering TB and incinerating him just as he allegedly did with LB. I wonder what DM offered up to MS to help him carry out the plan of theft? And did DM make good on his offer? Was MS even present for what happened to TB after they pulled away from TB's property? Did MS even know DM murdered TB? Or did he find out when the news broke out on MSM. It's quite possible DM was on his own to get rid of evidence, cover his trail. Perhaps if there were things he couldn't do on his own, that is where CN came into the picture?

Hey Snooper, and that's why DM was charged with forcible confinement and theft and MS wasn't right? And MWJ is charged with selling a gun to DM to murder his father right? And DM was the one on line buying a gun holster, and only DM is being charged with his father's murder...right? And DM had the ominous gamer photo of himself, with the bloody eye after his father's murder? And it just so happens DM had all the conveniences such as the incinerator, farmland, Yukon, hangar, tied to TB's murder, all because someone took advantage of DM right?
All MOO.

 

[cansleuther]

I think we will find out through trial, MS was lead to believe by DM, the plan was only to steal TB's truck, but DM had further plans of murdering TB and incinerating him just as he allegedly did with LB.

Isn't MS charged with first degree murder in connection to LB's death as well?

 

[Tamarind]

DM taken advantage of. I don't believe DM was taken advantage of by anyone in his life. But I do believe DM took advantage of others and used people for his own personal gain kwim. His generosities toward others, he had something to gain IMO. Perhaps that signified the statement given by Deepak about DM being intelligent. DM knew how to "work" people to his advantage. It appears to me DM took advantage of MS. I think we will find out through trial, MS was lead to believe by DM, the plan was only to steal TB's truck, but DM had further plans of murdering TB and incinerating him just as he allegedly did with LB. I wonder what DM offered up to MS to help him carry out the plan of theft? And did DM make good on his offer? Was MS even present for what happened to TB after they pulled away from TB's property? Did MS even know DM murdered TB? Or did he find out when the news broke out on MSM. It's quite possible DM was on his own to get rid of evidence, cover his trail. Perhaps if there were things he couldn't do on his own, that is where CN came into the picture?

I'm not sure I am reading the post correctly... Are we to believe that someone buys things for others to please themselves? I think buying gifts for others is called generosity and very often makes the giver and the receiver happy, the giver liking to see others happy and the receivers happy with their gift. JMO. I can't see any basis for this reasoning, to make DM look anything other than generous, without any proof of that.. We have no idea who was actually present, but I think it's safe to say that the charges and LE believe at least two people were present. I think more were but that JMO. I can't imagine where MS may have absconded to during this event, maybe he hitched a ride in Brantford and went to a casino with MWJ, who may have also been in the vicinity at the time, just a thought.

Hey Snooper, and that's why DM was charged with forcible confinement and theft and MS wasn't right?

Maybe they are alleging that the driver allegedly locked the doors and windows and trapped people inside. Highly unlikely of course unless the driver was being threatened too IMHO.

And MWJ is charged with selling a gun to DM to murder his father right? And DM was the one on line buying a gun holster, and only DM is being charged with his father's murder...right? And DM had the ominous gamer photo of himself, with the bloody eye after his father's murder? And it just so happens DM had all the conveniences such as the incinerator, farmland, Yukon, hangar, tied to TB's murder, all because someone took advantage of DM right?
All MOO.

I believe MWJ likes eye pics too, has a pic with a gun to his eye I believe. I can't see that anyone else in the associations category, has a farm property so it makes sense that they would use and take DM for all that he had. Whichever way the story gets swung, the fact is this case is way too odd to take at face value, Right ? IMHO.

 

[Alethea Dice]

Calls from Etobicoke cell towers, to the RBEG and the guy who slept through the call, in the days before the murder, are what we know about.

If that's all we know about, then this was certainly a deceiving way of wording it.

That cellphone, though only registered three months ago, was used in several areas in Etobicoke.

http://globalnews.ca/news/551499/hamilton-police-to-provide-update-on-tim-bosma-case/

 

[Alethea Dice]

DM taken advantage of...:laughcry: I don't believe DM was taken advantage of by anyone in his life. But I do believe DM took advantage of others and used people for his own personal gain kwim. His generosities toward others, he had something to gain IMO. Perhaps that signified the statement given by Deepak about DM being intelligent. DM knew how to "work" people to his advantage. It appears to me DM took advantage of MS. I think we will find out through trial, MS was lead to believe by DM, the plan was only to steal TB's truck, but DM had further plans of murdering TB and incinerating him just as he allegedly did with LB. I wonder what DM offered up to MS to help him carry out the plan of theft? And did DM make good on his offer? Was MS even present for what happened to TB after they pulled away from TB's property? Did MS even know DM murdered TB? Or did he find out when the news broke out on MSM. It's quite possible DM was on his own to get rid of evidence, cover his trail. Perhaps if there were things he couldn't do on his own, that is where CN came into the picture?

Hey Snooper, and that's why DM was charged with forcible confinement and theft and MS wasn't right? And MWJ is charged with selling a gun to DM to murder his father right? And DM was the one on line buying a gun holster, and only DM is being charged with his father's murder...right? And DM had the ominous gamer photo of himself, with the bloody eye after his father's murder? And it just so happens DM had all the conveniences such as the incinerator, farmland, Yukon, hangar, tied to TB's murder, all because someone took advantage of DM right?
All MOO.

What did he gain by throwing a large birthday party for his friend? What did he gain by buying extra x-boxes for his friends to use at his house? What did he gain by paying for dinners for his friends?

I believe that you have stated many times that we may not know of other charges that have been laid, so how do you know that MS hasn't had further charges as well? DM was charged with forcible confinement and theft before TB's body was found, and before murder charges were laid. If I recall, Kavanagh stated that the 1st degree charges were a result of the forcible confinement. Maybe MS wasn't charged with those two offences because they don't need those charges to prove 1st degree for him. Just something to think about.

JMO

 

[Alethea Dice]

This is the first that I have heard that the phone was not used in the time that it was bought months before, do you have any MSM links to that new piece of information? The last I had heard the phone was alledged to belong to DM or MS because it was used to make calls in Etobicoke in the months prior to the crime.

I wonder if the phone was ever found itself.

I wonder if MS had a cell phone. It would make more sense if the burner phone belonged to someone who didn't have one in his own name. I still wonder what they were searching for in the grassy area around MS's house. A phone maybe?

JMO

 

[swedie]

What did he gain by throwing a large birthday party for his friend? What did he gain by buying extra x-boxes for his friends to use at his house? What did he gain by paying for dinners for his friends?

I believe that you have stated many times that we may not know of other charges that have been laid, so how do you know that MS hasn't had further charges as well? DM was charged with forcible confinement and theft before TB's body was found, and before murder charges were laid. If I recall, Kavanagh stated that the 1st degree charges were a result of the forcible confinement. Maybe MS wasn't charged with those two offences because they don't need those charges to prove 1st degree for him. Just something to think about.

JMO

The friend's birthday bash at the hangar, that's not a hard one to figure out. DM wanted to gain popularity and friends. Something he seemed to lacked from his school days. He provided the place for the party to happen, his grandfather's place of business. And at no cost to him that I'm aware of. No doubt when word got out, many people were offering up freebies; music, drugs, alcohol, whatever young people wanted or desired for a good time.

He gained friends coming to his house to play xbox with him and "chillin". Do you know if he bought these xboxes? Maybe they actually belonged to the other people who made WM's home into theirs? Wouldn't you figure if an adult child moved out of home, they would take their possessions such as clothing, computers, xboxes/playstations, cell phones, etc. Or perhaps DM liked to wheel and deal finding hot bargains when possible? Seems apparent in the gun department. Paying for others meals hmmm, if I'm not mistaken, we've only heard this claim from one person. And how well did he actually know DM? DM paid for meals on a couple outings? Did DM do a lot of boasting and lying to these pals hoping to gain another popularity contest? Sure sounds like DM bought friendships or at least tried to. Peace or hush offerings maybe? Or on the other hand, it would be easy to treat others when spending someone else's money.

Additional charges of forcible confinement and theft for MS. Easy, because MS was in the Yukon following, he didn't have physical control over TB or TB's truck and I bet LE will have the evidence to prove it was DM who was the instigator of all. That's just MOO though.

He spread his wealth around freely with his friends, said Benoît Ménardo, a friend of Mr. Millard who lives in France.

“He didn’t count money or anything, when he was at a restaurant, he was always paying, always organizing things,” said Mr. Ménardo, who had not heard of Mr. Millard’s arrest until called by the National Post.

His Maple Gate home, which police searched after his arrest, was completely customized as a party pad where he and his friends could relax and have fun, featuring a large aquarium stocked with fish and turtles, said Mr. Ménardo.

“He has two maybe three TVs and two X-Boxes just for his friends to play with. He was paying for all of it,” he said.

Dellen Millard has been charged with the first-degree murder of Tim Bosma.
He bought his friends Seadoos and traveled with them widely in Greece, Alaska and France, he said.

But Mr. Millard never mentioned how he was affording it or what he did for a job, he said.

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/c...-was-always-a-little-different-classmate-says

 

[Tamarind]

The friend's birthday bash at the hangar, that's not a hard one to figure out. DM wanted to gain popularity and friends. Something he seemed to lacked from his school days. He provided the place for the party to happen, his grandfather's place of business. And at no cost to him that I'm aware of. No doubt when word got out, many people were offering up freebies; music, drugs, alcohol, whatever young people wanted or desired for a good time.

And this is unusual for young people?

He gained friends coming to his house to play xbox with him and "chillin". Do you know if he bought these xboxes? Maybe they actually belonged to the other people who made WM's home into theirs? Wouldn't you figure if an adult child moved out of home, they would take their possessions such as clothing, computers, xboxes/playstations, cell phones, etc. Or perhaps DM liked to wheel and deal finding hot bargains when possible?

I'm not seeing anything out of the ordinary here. JMO

Seems apparent in the gun department. Paying for others meals hmmm, if I'm not mistaken, we've only heard this claim from one person. And how well did he actually know DM? DM paid for meals on a couple outings? Did DM do a lot of boasting and lying to these pals hoping to gain another popularity contest? Sure sounds like DM bought friendships or at least tried to. Peace or hush offerings maybe? Or on the other hand, it would be easy to treat others when spending someone else's money.

I'm still not seeing anything strange or relating to murderous behaviour. KWIM MOO
I'm sure he must have had his own money to spend JMO

Additional charges of forcible confinement and theft for MS. Easy, because MS was in the Yukon following, he didn't have physical control over TB or TB's truck and I bet LE will have the evidence to prove it was DM who was the instigator of all. That's just MOO though.

Do you have a link to prove MS was in a Yukon following?

He spread his wealth around freely with his friends, said Benoît Ménardo, a friend of Mr. Millard who lives in France.
“He didn’t count money or anything, when he was at a restaurant, he was always paying, always organizing things,” said Mr. Ménardo, who had not heard of Mr. Millard’s arrest until called by the National Post.

Sounds like a real nice guy , according to his friend.

His Maple Gate home, which police searched after his arrest, was completely customized as a party pad where he and his friends could relax and have fun, featuring a large aquarium stocked with fish and turtles, said Mr. Ménardo.

My son has fish and turtles too, it looks great ! He also has a black light and a small disco ball, all for the ambiance. All good fun IMO.

“He has two maybe three TVs and two X-Boxes just for his friends to play with. He was paying for all of it,” he said.

We've had a few gadgets , they are out of date so quickly. My son buys most of his own things too, I don't see a problem with it, maybe I am overlooking something, I hope not.

He bought his friends Seadoos and traveled with them widely in Greece, Alaska and France, he said.
But Mr. Millard never mentioned how he was affording it or what he did for a job, he said.

Sounds rather humble to me, not talking about his families wealth. I expect the friends already knew and thats why they didn't question him. All normal behaviour to me. Perspectives from different personalities seem to be one end of the scale to the other. The trial hopefully gives a perspective that is based on facts and details rather than inference, to help us see the truth. MOO

 

[Juballee]

The description of the 'Party Pad' being equipped with a couple of Xboxes and an aquarium always makes me laugh out loud. I mean, who here wouldn't murder to keep up that sweet Xbox and turtle party lifestyle? I may have had some doubts about his guilt before, but the the fact that he could have an aquarium AND a couple of Xboxes totally seals his fate, in my opinion.

 

[Alethea Dice]

The friend's birthday bash at the hangar, that's not a hard one to figure out. DM wanted to gain popularity and friends. Something he seemed to lacked from his school days. He provided the place for the party to happen, his grandfather's place of business. And at no cost to him that I'm aware of. No doubt when word got out, many people were offering up freebies; music, drugs, alcohol, whatever young people wanted or desired for a good time.

He gained friends coming to his house to play xbox with him and "chillin". Do you know if he bought these xboxes? Maybe they actually belonged to the other people who made WM's home into theirs? Wouldn't you figure if an adult child moved out of home, they would take their possessions such as clothing, computers, xboxes/playstations, cell phones, etc. Or perhaps DM liked to wheel and deal finding hot bargains when possible? Seems apparent in the gun department. Paying for others meals hmmm, if I'm not mistaken, we've only heard this claim from one person. And how well did he actually know DM? DM paid for meals on a couple outings? Did DM do a lot of boasting and lying to these pals hoping to gain another popularity contest? Sure sounds like DM bought friendships or at least tried to. Peace or hush offerings maybe? Or on the other hand, it would be easy to treat others when spending someone else's money.

Additional charges of forcible confinement and theft for MS. Easy, because MS was in the Yukon following, he didn't have physical control over TB or TB's truck and I bet LE will have the evidence to prove it was DM who was the instigator of all. That's just MOO though.

He spread his wealth around freely with his friends, said Benoît Ménardo, a friend of Mr. Millard who lives in France.

“He didn’t count money or anything, when he was at a restaurant, he was always paying, always organizing things,” said Mr. Ménardo, who had not heard of Mr. Millard’s arrest until called by the National Post.

His Maple Gate home, which police searched after his arrest, was completely customized as a party pad where he and his friends could relax and have fun, featuring a large aquarium stocked with fish and turtles, said Mr. Ménardo.

“He has two maybe three TVs and two X-Boxes just for his friends to play with. He was paying for all of it,” he said.

Dellen Millard has been charged with the first-degree murder of Tim Bosma.
He bought his friends Seadoos and traveled with them widely in Greece, Alaska and France, he said.

But Mr. Millard never mentioned how he was affording it or what he did for a job, he said.

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/c...-was-always-a-little-different-classmate-says

I wouldn't really call having friends and being popular as "personal gain", but that's JMO.

If the birthday party didn't cost him anything, who paid for the bands?

According to your link, the X-Boxes belonged to him and it appears that, if they did belong to someone else living there, they didn't take them when they moved out. So I'm really not sure what your point is about that. Also, the friend seems to have known him well enough to travel with him. And FWIW, DM being arrested didn't seem to stop the friend from continuing his travels with other friends so I don't get the impression that he was one of the "bought" friends.

It has never been confirmed that MS followed in the Yukon. Kavanaugh only stated that they didn't know who the driver was or if there was as third person and for all they knew he MAY have gotten out of TB's truck and into the Yukon. All we know is that both (2 people) got into Tim's truck and drove away and that the Yukon followed them as they left. If MS wasn't in the truck, how do we even know if he was at the scene when the murder took place? If he didn't know what was happening, or perhaps even that it was happening, what would be the basis for his 1st degree murder charge?

Was MS even present for what happened to TB after they pulled away from TB's property? Did MS even know DM murdered TB? Or did he find out when the news broke out on MSM. It's quite possible DM was on his own to get rid of evidence, cover his trail. Perhaps if there were things he couldn't do on his own, that is where CN came into the picture?

If DM was on his own and CN only came into the picture to help with things that he couldn't do alone, then why is MS the one charged with 1st degree murder instead of CN?

JMO

 

[SnooperDuper]

I wonder if MS had a cell phone. It would make more sense if the burner phone belonged to someone who didn't have one in his own name. I still wonder what they were searching for in the grassy area around MS's house. A phone maybe?

JMO

It makes sense that if someone has a burner phone that they already have their own phone. Why would anyone depend on a burner as their primary phone when they could be using a smartphone?

 

[Alethea Dice]

My son has fish and turtles too, it looks great ! He also has a black light and a small disco ball, all for the ambiance. All good fun IMO.

Funny, my son does too, as well as the various game boxes. I must remember to warn him about how controlling and desperate for friends that makes him appear.

 

[matou]

Why is someone dead for a truck? Just punch him out, blindfold him, tie him up, etc. Not necessary to kill him...unless that was the plan within the plan. JMO

 

[matou]

Public service announcement: Make sure to wash your hands after handling the turtles in your home!

 

[Alethea Dice]

It makes sense that if someone has a burner phone that they already have their own phone. Why would anyone depend on a burner as their primary phone when they could be using a smartphone?

Because they don't have a regular job with the guaranteed income to ensure they are able to pay the monthly fees on a smartphone.

Next question - Why wouldn't they register it in their own name? Because some of their activities, based on previous charges, aren't exactly legal.

JMO

 

[Alethea Dice]

Public service announcement: Make sure to wash your hands after handling the turtles in your home!

Everyone knows that. It's 2015.

 

[Alethea Dice]

Why is someone dead for a truck? Just punch him out, blindfold him, tie him up, etc. Not necessary to kill him...unless that was the plan within the plan. JMO

Which is why I wonder if it was actually the plan at all.

JMO

 

[ABro]

Serious question, folks.

Say your 18-year-old son comes home and tells you he wants to move into his 20-something buddy's bro-topian basement. You don't know much about the buddy apart from the fact that he's wealthy and lives with his semi-reclusive dad.

What do you do?

a) Tell your son to go for it and buy him a going-away turtle gift.
b) Sit your son down for a chat and try to figure out the relationship dynamics between him and his older friend.
c) Ask how the semi-reclusive father feels about the whole moving-in thing.
d) Remind your son there's no such thing as a free lunch.

Pick any answer(s) or write your own.

 

[Alethea Dice]

Serious question, folks.

Say your 18-year-old son comes home and tells you he wants to move into his 20-something buddy's bro-topian basement. You don't know much about the buddy apart from the fact that he's wealthy and lives with his semi-reclusive dad.

What do you do?

a) Tell your son to go for it and buy him a going-away turtle gift.
b) Sit your son down for a chat and try to figure out the relationship dynamics between him and his older friend.
c) Ask how the semi-reclusive father feels about the whole moving-in thing.
d) Remind your son there's no such thing as a free lunch.

Pick any answer(s) or write your own.

I believe, in this particular case, the lad was around 24, not 18. Unless he lived with the wealthy friend for years prior to the father's death.

To answer your question though, it would depend on the circumstances. If it was my 18 year old son, I would probably do b, c and d, and likely in that order. However, if it was my 24 year old son, and I had more than likely already had numerous talks with him to try to straighten him out, even to the extent of moving from say Mississauga to Oakville in an attempt to get him away from a certain crowd, and he was still showing no attempts at leading a better life or perhaps even getting a steady job, then I would pack up his turtle and his bongs and say "goodbye, call now and then just so I know you're still alive".