General Discussion and Theories #4

[Tamarind]

Serious question, folks.

Say your 18-year-old son comes home and tells you he wants to move into his 20-something buddy's bro-topian basement. You don't know much about the buddy apart from the fact that he's wealthy and lives with his semi-reclusive dad.

What do you do?

a) Tell your son to go for it and buy him a going-away turtle gift.
b) Sit your son down for a chat and try to figure out the relationship dynamics between him and his older friend.
c) Ask how the semi-reclusive father feels about the whole moving-in thing.
d) Remind your son there's no such thing as a free lunch.

Pick any answer(s) or write your own.

Easy peasy ;-)

The answer would totally depend on the parent whose son was fleeing the coop. Having sons myself I happen to know that not all of a sons friends have wonderful parents. Many don't have the time or the inclination to buy a moving out gift, wonder about the friend he is going to, be bothered about anyone elses father/mother and last but not least they really don't care, so long as someone else is paying.

I have had someones son stay with me when he couldn't afford his own place any longer. He was with us for a few months before his mother ( father was absent) came from Brantford ( incidentally) and offered to pay for his keep.

Another friend whose father is a wealthy chiropractor in Toronto, stayed with us for some time too. However it was his mother in the states who sent money for him to spend , not the father.

Another friend we know of, had a father who kicked him out and a mother who had remarried and moved on. Needless to say the son was trying to fend for himself against all odds, had stayed with us before getting his own place. We found out a year on that the poor kid was found dead in his apartment.

So I think I can answer from the WM perspective and from the 'having a son' general perspective.


If he was 18 or over and sounded adamant about leaving, I would probably ask a few questions about why, where and how he was going to support himself. My son would already know that nothing is free and as for me checking in with the other parent, I would make a call and leave my number, taking the opportunity to get a feel for who the other parent was, remembering that my son is an adult and can make his own decisions. I would probably ask my son if he needed anything and offer to buy a new pillow, mug or some sheets. HTH

My sons have never made that choice, I think because they have a good home base, but have friends that did, as I have mentioned. 18 yr olds who move into another persons home are very often the types that are or feel rejected and are looking to find either a free place to lay their head or somewhere where they feel accepted. Son's that stay at home with their own parents ( either mother. father or both) are usually happy there and feel comfortable bringing their friends there too. This has been my experience and MOO.

 

[ABro]

I believe, in this particular case, the lad was around 24, not 18. Unless he lived with the wealthy friend for years prior to the father's death.

There was a whole series of basement dwellers over a period of several years before Wayne Millard's death. Smich was a late arrival.

 

[Tamarind]

There was a whole series of basement dwellers over a period of several years before Wayne Millard's death. Smich was a late arrival.

Can you explain what your focus is here? Are you focused on the alleged semi-reclusive parent or the multiple dwellers ( in his home)?

I have had friends of my sons stay in my home for short periods over time. Is there a suggestion that something is wrong with this?

 

[Juballee]

Sounds like nice people to share their home. I wonder if that kindness extended to other things, like loaning vehicles or pay as you go phones?

 

[Alethea Dice]

There was a whole series of basement dwellers over a period of several years before Wayne Millard's death. Smich was a late arrival.

You asked what we would do if our son was moving into another's basement. As I said, it would depend on the circumstances. I can't offer an opinion on what my reaction would be without knowing the circumstances behind those other "basement dwellers" lives.

As Tamarind said, I would be interested in knowing what your focus is. Since your question was based on the ones moving out, rather than the one they were moving in with, I don't know what you are trying to show.

 

[swedie]

I wouldn't really call having friends and being popular as "personal gain", but that's JMO.

If the birthday party didn't cost him anything, who paid for the bands?

According to your link, the X-Boxes belonged to him and it appears that, if they did belong to someone else living there, they didn't take them when they moved out. So I'm really not sure what your point is about that. Also, the friend seems to have known him well enough to travel with him. And FWIW, DM being arrested didn't seem to stop the friend from continuing his travels with other friends so I don't get the impression that he was one of the "bought" friends.

It has never been confirmed that MS followed in the Yukon. Kavanaugh only stated that they didn't know who the driver was or if there was as third person and for all they knew he MAY have gotten out of TB's truck and into the Yukon. All we know is that both (2 people) got into Tim's truck and drove away and that the Yukon followed them as they left. If MS wasn't in the truck, how do we even know if he was at the scene when the murder took place? If he didn't know what was happening, or perhaps even that it was happening, what would be the basis for his 1st degree murder charge?



If DM was on his own and CN only came into the picture to help with things that he couldn't do alone, then why is MS the one charged with 1st degree murder instead of CN?

JMO

To DM it was a personal gain. Every clown needs an audience. What kind of gain would you suggest then? And as far as DM being popular, do you know if he was popular?

There's a great example of having friends as a personal gain. Why pay for bands when you have friends willing to play for nothing at a huge birthday bash. Guess you missed the last sentence, first paragraph of my post you quoted: No doubt when word got out, many people were offering up freebies; music, drugs, alcohol, whatever young people wanted or desired for a good time.

According to the link it was BM who made that claim about DM owning two maybe three TVs and two xboxes. Perhaps that/those someone else(s) was/were still living in WM's basement. Do you have a link to show no buddies were living in WM's basement when BM came from France for a visit?

BBM - Yes it was suggested by Sgt. MK, MS may have gotten into DM's Yukon and followed DM who was driving TB's truck. I think we will find out through the trial that this was the case. MS was charged with first degree because of the fact that he was the perp who showed up at TB's house with DM with a motive. May not have been a motive to murder (that MS was aware of), but still that was the end result. And with MS's arrest being fairly swift, LE didn't have all the facts at that time to decipher MS's role/involvement. For all we know, DM could have thrown MS under the bus immediately after his arrest. It'll be up to the Crown to show MS's involvement or lack thereof after DM and MS left TB's property. We will just have to wait and see what role MS played in TB's murder if any, and if lesser charges are applicable to MS.

Why would CN get charged with first degree if she wasn't present during the murder? She didn't show up at TB's door with DM and MS. But she obviously played some role after the fact, May 9th, to earn her accessory after the fact/helping DM escape charge.
ALL MOO.

 

[swedie]

Isn't MS charged with first degree murder in connection to LB's death as well?

Yes but that doesn't mean MS was the actual murderer had intent on murdering or knew LB was going to be murdered. Just being with the murderer can bring about first degree murder charges. HTH and MOO.

 

[Tamarind]

Yes but that doesn't mean MS was the actual murderer had intent on murdering or knew LB was going to be murdered. Just being with the murderer can bring about first degree murder charges. HTH and MOO.

It doesn't mean he/DM was the murderer either. It just means they are charged. IMO. Sometimes people can be charged and be nowhere near the place - happens. Other times people are charged when someone(s) else is the guilty party. I find it interesting that two people are charged and just one is being chosen as the one to whip. Without any clear details at all of what actually happened. :waitasec::whoosh:

 

[Tamarind]

To DM it was a personal gain. Every clown needs an audience. What kind of gain would you suggest then? And as far as DM being popular, do you know if he was popular?

Clown? :crazy: :whoosh:

There's a great example of having friends as a personal gain. Why pay for bands when you have friends willing to play for nothing at a huge birthday bash. Guess you missed the last sentence, first paragraph of my post you quoted: No doubt when word got out, many people were offering up freebies; music, drugs, alcohol, whatever young people wanted or desired for a good time.

Who were offering freebies ?

<modsnip>

BBM - Yes it was suggested by Sgt. MK, MS may have gotten into DM's Yukon and followed DM who was driving TB's truck. I think we will find out through the trial that this was the case. MS was charged with first degree because of the fact that he was the perp who showed up at TB's house with DM with a motive. May not have been a motive to murder (that MS was aware of), but still that was the end result. And with MS's arrest being fairly swift, LE didn't have all the facts at that time to decipher MS's role/involvement. For all we know, DM could have thrown MS under the bus immediately after his arrest. It'll be up to the Crown to show MS's involvement or lack thereof after DM and MS left TB's property. We will just have to wait and see what role MS played in TB's murder if any, and if lesser charges are applicable to MS.

There is nothing to suggest DM could have thrown MS under the bus, any more than MS could throw DM under the bus. This makes me even more certain that something else played out. The constant denial of one accused in favour of another confirms to me that the whole case is a mystery that no one has yet made any full sense of. JMO. The fact is, neither may be guilty of murder - one or both may know something that may come out at trial. <modsnip>

All MOO

Why would CN get charged with first degree if she wasn't present during the murder? She didn't show up at TB's door with DM and MS. But she obviously played some role after the fact, May 9th, to earn her accessory after the fact/helping DM escape charge.
ALL MOO.

I don't believe GPM or ST had any role in the murders they were convicted of, so I never see charges as being tantamount to truth JMO

 

[Alethea Dice]

To DM it was a personal gain. Every clown needs an audience. What kind of gain would you suggest then? And as far as DM being popular, do you know if he was popular?

I wouldn't, and didn't, suggest any kind of gain. That was/is the opinion you're stating. I simply voiced my opinion that having friends you want to throw a party for or being popular weren't my idea of a "personal gain". I have no idea how popular he was. He certainly seemed to have friends around both at home and to travel with. I don't see that as a problem.

There's a great example of having friends as a personal gain. Why pay for bands when you have friends willing to play for nothing at a huge birthday bash. Guess you missed the last sentence, first paragraph of my post you quoted: No doubt when word got out, many people were offering up freebies; music, drugs, alcohol, whatever young people wanted or desired for a good time.

Do you have a link showing that the bands played for free? Or that anyone was giving out free drugs, alcohol or anything anyone wanted?

According to the link it was BM who made that claim about DM owning two maybe three TVs and two xboxes. Perhaps that/those someone else(s) was/were still living in WM's basement. Do you have a link to show no buddies were living in WM's basement when BM came from France for a visit?

Why would I have a link for something I never claimed? In fact, it was you who said "Maybe they actually belonged to the other people who made WM's home into theirs?" I happen to believe the X-Boxes belonged to DM, as was said in the interview. So I guess the question would be, do you have a link saying they belonged to someone else?

BBM - Yes it was suggested by Sgt. MK, MS may have gotten into DM's Yukon and followed DM who was driving TB's truck. I think we will find out through the trial that this was the case. MS was charged with first degree because of the fact that he was the perp who showed up at TB's house with DM with a motive. May not have been a motive to murder (that MS was aware of), but still that was the end result. And with MS's arrest being fairly swift, LE didn't have all the facts at that time to decipher MS's role/involvement. For all we know, DM could have thrown MS under the bus immediately after his arrest. It'll be up to the Crown to show MS's involvement or lack thereof after DM and MS left TB's property. We will just have to wait and see what role MS played in TB's murder if any, and if lesser charges are applicable to MS.

I don't think MS's arrest was very swift at all. It was over 2 weeks later that MS was arrested. Everything we've heard so far is that DM had exercised his right to remain silent. But yes, we will have to wait for the trial to see.

Why would CN get charged with first degree if she wasn't present during the murder? She didn't show up at TB's door with DM and MS. But she obviously played some role after the fact, May 9th, to earn her accessory after the fact/helping DM escape charge.
ALL MOO.

She wouldn't. That was the point I was trying to make. I was responding to your suggestion that maybe MS wasn't present for what happened and perhaps didn't even know that TB was murdered until he heard it on the news. If that was the case, MS wouldn't be charged with 1st degree murder. Based on the charges, the Crown believes he was there. Of course, we may find out different at trial, for either one of them as far as that goes. To use the same argument that's been used many times against DM, if MS was innocent, why wouldn't he have gone to LE and told them what he knew instead of running away when they came to his house.

JMO

 

[MsSherlock]

Good news is that in less than 3 months we will start to see the truth in the TB case unfold before the Courts. It's been a long haul and it'll still be a year before the LB & WM cases are heard, but IMO, the outcome of the TB trial will have a major impact on the other two. IMHO, even though sleuthers are on both sides of the fence, we've all had a great opportunity to use the fantastic forum that WS's provides to post information and air our personal opinions-we've sleuthed it out to the max, keeping the mod's busy every inch of the way!!! From this point on, I can't imagine anyone changing their opinions and at the end of the day, I think we're all looking for the same thing: justice. Thanks SillyBilly You've carried your new role well and hopefully you get a discount on Advil or something!! lol

 

[Sillybilly]

This thread is now closed. It will reopen just prior to commencement of the trial.