General Discussion and Theories

[expat cdn]

Re: Third Suspect - I still believe there is a 3rd person involved. Perhaps they weren't involved in the actual murder or came into the situation later on that night ie. driving the truck and trailer. Perhaps that is their story that they were only involved after the murder.
I'm thinking that they are working with LE. Maybe now, the Crown and 3rd person and their lawyer are working out their deal. The Crown and LE may be making sure they have the complete truth from the 3rd before committing to any type of plea deal. I'm hoping that the Crown would be extremely careful since the Holmoka plea debacle. They would want the evidence to support 100% what the 3rd is saying.

 

[Velma]

Good morning everyone. I have been following this case as both a guest here and through MSM since day one. There has been some amazing sleuthing happening here - well done!

I think (IMO) that what JPC and Snoofo say above is correct - that #3 is providing information. That was my original thought while watching the presser. I think there is a lot of wordplay in the pressers/interviews. I've been trying to pay attention to what they don't say as much as what they say.

Anyway, just my two cents and if the Bosma family/friends read this, my heart goes out to you and Tim will not be forgotten. There are some great people here that have been thinking of him daily.

 

[Velma]

Thanks expat cdn, I'm with you on that theory.

 

[Coldpizza]

:welcome: to WS Velma!

Nice to have you join the discussion.

 

[Archangel7]

Poor SB. This will never leave her. Time may heal but the scars will always remain. Her and Tim had spoken of death and what they planned. I am glad to read Tim was able to tuck his wee one into bed that night before leaving.

So DM and MS had planned on showing up earlier that eve but were late. :what: I wonder what time they had originally planned on showing up? Why were they late? Were they pulling the trailer with the Yukon and ran into trouble/overheating? I don't believe Yukons are meant to tow large heavy trailers MOO. Did they unhitch and leave the trailer at the industrial area, wait for the engine to cool down and then proceed to Tim's later than planned? Did they go back to the industrial area where Tim phone was found, to retrieve the trail? Is this where TB ran into trouble? Tim's truck more than likely had a trailer hitch IIRC Tim towed their travel trailer with the Dodge. Was this not the reason for selling the truck? They lived in the trailer while building their house and didn't need it anymore? I remember reading this but cannot find the article right now.

Although SB would not say to the reporter if it was DM and MS who showed up at her door that horrible night, I am confident she did recognize them and that is why these two are sitting in jail right now. She nor the media can release this information anyhow due to PB. MOO.


C&P from article.
He came in a box, a small wooden square not much bigger than a shoe box.

Tim was supposed to meet two men that Monday night, but they were late, so he was able to tuck his 2½-year-old daughter into bed.

Then two men arrived, on foot, to his large country home in rural Ancaster. He told Sharlene he’d be back soon. Or back in 20 minutes. She can’t remember his exact words, which would be the last she’d ever hear out of his mouth.

“I gave him one hour,” she said. “Then I started calling and texting.”
When there was no answer she called police. Shortly after, a massive manhunt began. She gave police a description of the two men.Sharlene didn’t say if the two men she saw are the same two men in custody. But she did say she’s confident with the investigation led by Det. Sgt. Matt Kavanagh.

Sharlene oscillated between happy memories of her husband, sadness over his death and rage over all the unanswered questions. “We still don’t know why this happened.”
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2013/06/15/tim_bosma_comes_home_heartbreakingly_in_a_small_box.html

The Yukon is only capable of pulling a trailer from the "bumper" or a receiver hitch attached to the frame. It can't in any way be attached to "gooseneck" or a "fifth wheel" style trailer.

Pickup trucks can have a plate with a 2 5/16" ball installed in the bed by way of bolting the complete unit thru the bed and into the frame.

Or a fifth wheel(similar to tractor/trailer or transport truck)trailer, "fifth wheel is placed into the bed for the "pin" on the "fifth wheel" trailer to slide into and then a "king pin" is installed to provide a safety.

5 th wheel for truck bed

Trailer part of 5th wheel

Gooseneck type

Receiver hitch

Hope this helps us all understand the vehicles/trailers involved

 

[JPC]

JPC your idea that third is providing evidence makes LE's statement there may be two suspects, there may be three suspects, we don't know sound like less of a lie as compared to there were definitely only two suspects if in fact they know there is a third that is not being revealed. If LE should not flat out lie in the press releases they can certainly shape their words creatively.

I think they made it clear when Smich was arrested and they addressed questions about the third suspect, that they weren't going to bother looking for a third. They basically told "the third" to turn themselves in and managed to assure the public that this person (of whose existence, let alone name, they were later not certain of) is not a threat. Very curious that they would say that unless they knew for certain at that point there was no third person or the third person was giving them all their information. I still don't like that they said that. It was Kinsella on that date as I believe Kavanagh was possibly at TB's public memorial service or he was on the Smich arrest (or both). The day before that Kavanagh made a similar comment about #3 and safety of public and when asked why he used that line "you'll have to just trust me on this". Okay...?

You may be right about the "creative words", the potential 3rd suspect may have been close to the robbery plan but may not have fully participated e.g. worked at the chopshop, knew that the robbery was going to take place, potentially drove the Yukon but was not privy to the homicide details until well after the fact. They may have realized that LE would be closing in and it was only a matter of time before they were sitting in lock up. This 3rd person may have contacted a lawyer and started to sing. If they had a credible story they may no longer be considered a suspect because they have come forward on their own volition and are now just an accessory to theft. This would technically make the reference to the "3rd suspect" disappear because technically they are no longer "suspected" of the crime. They could be working on a plea deal and if this case becomes bigger than the TB theft and homicide and involves other organized crime sources, LE may be protecting this key "witness" because that is all that they have for now. I believe that more sources were privy to whatever unsavoury business was going on at the hangar since there is a list of people who the suspects can not contact??Pure speculation and MOO.

 

[Archangel7]

You may be right about the "creative words", the potential 3rd suspect may have been close to the robbery plan but may not have fully participated e.g. worked at the chopshop, knew that the robbery was going to take place, potentially drove the Yukon but was not privy to the homicide details until well after the fact. They may have realized that LE would be closing in and it was only a matter of time before they were sitting in lock up. This 3rd person may have contacted a lawyer and started to sing. If they had a credible story they may no longer be considered a suspect because they have come forward on their own volition and are now just an accessory to theft. This would technically make the reference to the "3rd suspect" disappear because technically they are no longer "suspected" of the crime. They could be working on a plea deal and if this case becomes bigger than the TB theft and homicide and involves other organized crime sources, LE may be protecting this key "witness" because that is all that they have for now. I believe that more sources were privy to whatever unsavoury business was going on at the hangar since there is a list of people who the suspects can not contact??Pure speculation and MOO.

You could be right about foreknowledge......

If I was going to be the third person(suspect) and drive DM & MS to TB's, I'd be casually interested in "why?" Why do you need want/another Ram truck?
Why am I driving you guys, but just dropping you off and you'll "call" me later to meet you? Or..You want me to drop you off, yet follow you? Or...you want me to park a mile away and wait until you pass, then get behind you?

I too believe a #3 could see thru that plan and know DM & MS are up to something nefarious, then later that night suddenly #3 knows he's in for life.

You brought up a good point....

A #3 would need an incentive to work with LE, like a promise of leniency on a conviction of 1st degree murder down to 2nd or accessory to murder with recommendation of probation.
However indictable events would still be public record and no mention so far that I'm aware of.

 

[canadiangirl]

In this video one guy said TB was burned in a barrel. Did he release information not yet known to the public or is he referring to the insinuator as a barrel or is he just assuming? Odd he would generalize instead of just saying TB's burnt body was found on DM's property. JMO

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=vFDhn6rOuBA

Swedie, the video is over 20mins, do you know approx where this is said?
thanks in advance!

 

[SnoopCat]

Cangirl, it's mentioned at about 16:30 of the video. Comment was made by criminal defense lawyer Gary Clewley, whether he had personal information about the barrel isn't clear. To me it sounds like he was paraphrasing.

Anyone know who killuminati63 might be? See last comment on the Youtube page for that video. Pretty aweful.

 

[swedie]

Cangirl, it's mentioned at about 16:30 of the video. Comment was made by criminal defense lawyer Gary Clewley, whether he had personal information about the barrel isn't clear. To me it sounds like he was paraphrasing.

Anyone know who killuminati63 might be? See last comment on the Youtube page for that video. Pretty aweful.

Thank you for answering CG's question SC. :seeya: I just finished watching the video again and was going to post but you beat me to it ahahah. The lawyer says "he got burned in a barrel didn't he?" "You don't burn people unless you're trying to obliterate their identity and the cause of death." The radio host answers "yep" to the burned in the barrel question. HTH

 

[swedie]

Cangirl, it's mentioned at about 16:30 of the video. Comment was made by criminal defense lawyer Gary Clewley, whether he had personal information about the barrel isn't clear. To me it sounds like he was paraphrasing.

Anyone know who killuminati63 might be? See last comment on the Youtube page for that video. Pretty aweful.

BBM
Not sure what you're meaning SC. I saw the comment, but what is the relevance? I just see it as another weird posts. JMO.

 

[swedie]

To me this sounds like LE aren't even sure if there is a third suspect. It is not that they are not releasing this information to the public, it's because they are not sure if one exists. Also the less people involved in a crime, the less likely of getting caught or information being leaked.

IMO I believe only DM and MS were involved. They parked the Yukon somewhere near TB's house MS drove it and followed TB's truck while DM drove. They then drove to the industrial area where they left the Yukon and MS got into TB's truck, sitting behind TB. I believe whatever happened to Tim at this point was MS's doing. Somehow TB's phone ended up outside the truck. I feel it was dropped in a scuffle. Tim didn't intentionally leave his phone there. He would have known his cell phone could have been his lifeline. He could have used it to call for help or LE could track it to find him. Upon leaving the industrial area they then drove to DM's farmland property. I believe TB was shot and this was the reason for removing the seats. The seats held blood evidence and shooting would be much simpler and less risky then using a knife IMO. I'm curious thought at what point did they use the trailer for transporting TB's truck other than to DM's mothers. I guess it would depend where and when they took the seats out. In the hangar? Sounds logical.

DM and/or MS had the truck at the hangar and did a clean up of the interior and then DM took it to his mother's house in the trailer. He probably felt the heat was on and if LE suspected him, the first place they would go would be to the hangar. All MOO.

SUSPECT NO. 3
The only person Hamilton police are still hunting down in the Bosma case. Not much is known about this suspect. Not even if it is a man or a woman.

Police have said Bosma’s truck was followed by a second vehicle the night he was abducted. That vehicle was a dark blue Yukon SUV owned by Dellen Millard, according to police. They say only a driver was inside.

Police have not released a description of the driver, nor have they said what role they played in Bosma’s murder.

Superintendent Dan Kinsella did cryptically say, after announcing the arrest of the second murder suspect, that, “We believe the danger to the public has been arrested, and we believe the danger to the public has subsided as it relates to this case.”

http://metronews.ca/news/hamilton/685845/the-tim-bosma-case-in-focus/

 

[JPC]

You could be right about foreknowledge......

If I was going to be the third person(suspect) and drive DM & MS to TB's, I'd be casually interested in "why?" Why do you need want/another Ram truck?
Why am I driving you guys, but just dropping you off and you'll "call" me later to meet you? Or..You want me to drop you off, yet follow you? Or...you want me to park a mile away and wait until you pass, then get behind you?

However indictable events would still be public record and no mention so far that I'm aware of.

Perhaps the third suspect understood that they were going to steal the truck and agreed to be a driver. They may not have been aware of whatever happened after, specifically if it wasn't a premeditated homicide but a robbery gone horribly wrong. If a plea bargain happens, the details of the charges for
the third suspect might be made public at a later date to protect the "witness" until after the homicide trial has started or at the very least until after LE is able to finalize the investigation.

On another note, it may be buried in an additional thread but does anyone know how tall DM is? They keep saying tall and lanky but I don't known what that means as opposed to the TB and to the 1st person who went on the test drive?
MOO

 

[SnoopCat]

[/B]

BBM
Not sure what you're meaning SC. I saw the comment, but what is the relevance? I just see it as another weird posts. JMO.

My initial reaction was that the commenter had some knowledge, in some part, of this case. I mean, why would anyone "joke" about the death of someone they didn't know? I didn't like it,and it ticked me off. http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/smilies/stormingmad.gif

 

[JPC]

My initial reaction was that the commenter had some knowledge, in some part, of this case. I mean, why would anyone "joke" about the death of someone they didn't know? I didn't like it,and it ticked me off. http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/smilies/stormingmad.gif

Not cool. Very insensitive.

 

[Sillybilly]

Cangirl, it's mentioned at about 16:30 of the video. Comment was made by criminal defense lawyer Gary Clewley, whether he had personal information about the barrel isn't clear. To me it sounds like he was paraphrasing.

Anyone know who killuminati63 might be? See last comment on the Youtube page for that video. Pretty aweful.

Checking a little further, seems to be from Hamilton, couple of years ago uploaded a youtube vid where he rages (while drinking beer and burping) against the guys that did 3 Guys & a Hammer, about their lack of soul, and generally his disillusionment with humanity that peeps could be into such stuff.

I think he meant well with his recent comment, but kiddo is definitely not a wordsmith

JMO

 

[Archangel7]

Perhaps the third suspect understood that they were going to steal the truck and agreed to be a driver. They may not have been aware of whatever happened after, specifically if it wasn't a premeditated homicide but a robbery gone horribly wrong. If a plea bargain happens, the details of the charges for
the third suspect might be made public at a later date to protect the "witness" until after the homicide trial has started or at the very least until after LE is able to finalize the investigation.

On another note, it may be buried in an additional thread but does anyone know how tall DM is? They keep saying tall and lanky but I don't known what that means as opposed to the TB and to the 1st person who went on the test drive?
MOO

I guess my problem trying to get my head around the #3 person and the plea/helping LE scenario is this:

1. There was plenty of time after TB was murdered for a relatively innocent
#3 to come forward if he had an epiphany. Even after DM&MS arrest.
2. DM & MS believe that if they just keep quiet it all dies as they are the only
two that "really" know anything.
3. To be a stool pigeon, one(#3) has to know details, and to know details
means one is close enough to the murder to be charged.
4. If one is close enough to be charged and cop a plea to help, one would
have to be formally charged and indicted/arraigned before the court and
that is a matter of public record.
5. It isn't hard to keep an innocent's(undercover agent for example) ID
secret as the case progresses, but I don't see a way to keep an
accomplice's name secret. He's either in police custody and charged etc.
or not. Anything else starts getting into very shaky legal ground.

You could be correct though, I'm just giving my view.
All MOO

 

[MsSherlock]

I guess my problem trying to get my head around the #3 person and the plea/helping LE scenario is this:

1. There was plenty of time after TB was murdered for a relatively innocent
#3 to come forward if he had an epiphany. Even after DM&MS arrest.
2. DM & MS believe that if they just keep quiet it all dies as they are the only
two that "really" know anything.
3. To be a stool pigeon, one(#3) has to know details, and to know details
means one is close enough to the murder to be charged.
4. If one is close enough to be charged and cop a plea to help, one would
have to be formally charged and indicted/arraigned before the court and
that is a matter of public record.
5. It isn't hard to keep an innocent's(undercover agent for example) ID
secret as the case progresses, but I don't see a way to keep an
accomplice's name secret. He's either in police custody and charged etc.
or not. Anything else starts getting into very shaky legal ground.

You could be correct though, I'm just giving my view.
All MOO

My theory is that "Suspect" 3 turned into Crown Witness 1 and that's why there's no more "#3" IMHO, they departed going north on Trinity-that's where the camera's picked them up. The 3rd person was in fact in the Yukon and either they witnessed what happened to TB or they knew that TB had been murdered, but were never aware that that was DM & MS's intention. They ended up with a problem with the 3rd person's emotional state and DM or MS ended up having to drive the Yukon, because 3rd person couldn't. Now, my theory splits here-3rd person could have been dropped off in Brantford or driven straight to their car at the hangar. TB's truck was driven straight to the farm-seats ripped out etc. I think 3rd person may have been threatened with their life and as long as MS was out, they lived in fear. As soon as MS was arrested, they lawyered up and went to LE as a Witness. It would be very compelling especially if they had text messages with death threats etc or if they were a female or something along those lines JMHO.

 

[skatergirl]

For those of you who have looked into where traffic cams/security cams etc are in the area, where is the closest one to TB's home in the direction they travelled from the start of the test drive?

 

[MsSherlock]

For those of you who have looked into where traffic cams/security cams etc are in the area, where is the closest one to TB's home in the direction they travelled from the start of the test drive?

The only traffic cams I'm aware of in the immediate area are at the stop lights at Trinity Road and Wilson Street intersection - that is north of TB's home