General Discussion Thread #1 -Bail Hearing

[sorrell skye]

According to Botha's testimony, the witness reported hearing two people fighting/talking loudly. Nowhere in OP's affidavit does he state that anyone but himself uttered a sound. How does the witness's report reconcile with what OP claims occurred? If the witness is to be believed, more than one person's voice was heard from 2 - 3 a.m.

 

[Cherwell]

There is a major misrepresentation in the above graphic. Pistorius is able to walk on the stumps of his legs. The references to him "crawling" and "dragging himself" are misleading.

 

[Estelle]

Could be sleeping clothes, yes, but if it was a hot night, as I understand it was, I'd have thought they wouldn't be wearing anything in bed. For the same reason there was possibly only a sheet on the bed - it's unlikely there were bulky quilts or blankets.

I live in Australia so have a simiar climate so only sleep naked with a sheet on. I have been single for years and when I am with a lover, I would never wear night gear as it would be much too hot as I do not have air conditioning and hate the noise of a fan!

In upscale houses, in hot climates, you would expect air conditioning or a ceiling fan. I would not leave a fan on a balcony as it would be affected by the weather.

If they had been in bed before, he should have brought the fan in then. But how could he carry a fan on those stumps? I would have asked Reeva to do it or done it while legs were on.

I think there needs to be a documented reconstruction as soon as possible by both sides. I wonder if Roix has already done this to test out OP's affidavit first and then changed things to fit.

 

[Chewy]

There is a major misrepresentation in the above graphic. Pistorius is able to walk on the stumps of his legs. The references to him "crawling" and "dragging himself" are misleading.

this is the first thing I thought as well.

 

[sorrell skye]

There is a major misrepresentation in the above graphic. Pistorius is able to walk on the stumps of his legs. The references to him "crawling" and "dragging himself" are misleading.

I have only read OP's statements that he has "limited mobility" without his prosthetics. I haven't read that he's able to "walk" on his stumps. Do you have a link with a quote from OP that he's able to "walk" on his stumps?

 

[gxm]

I wonder why Reeva would need an iphone in the bathroom around 3am?

To try to call for help?

Police also found two iPhones in the bathroom and two BlackBerrys in the bedroom, Botha said, adding that none had been used to phone for help. Roux later suggested that a fifth phone, not collected by the police, was used by Pistorius to make calls for a hospital and help. After the hearing, Roux told journalists that Pistorius' defense team had the phone, but did not elaborate

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/...ha-testimony_n_2725410.html?utm_hp_ref=sports

Were either of the two phones found in the toilet room? If not, that would be why she didn't call for help. IMO, one of the most telling aspects is that OP did not call 911 (or the SA equivalent) immediately. One's first reaction to accidentally shooting a loved one, or any accident involving a loved one, would be to call for emergency help, not to call one's lawyer or brother.

 

[LJKaust]

Given that his legs are amputated, I don't think his bed would be "really high".

Well I guess that depends on whether he takes off the prosthetics, then gets into bed, or if he takes them off once seated on the bed.

 

[danzn16]

I still think there are many people who lock the bathroom door, I mean, some people even do it when they're home alone out of habit-they are private about it and don't want to be walked in on. And moreover she was staying at his place not hers, and the relationship was relatively new. If there is a lock in someone's home, a lot of people use it. I leave mine wide open, I have a cat so doors stay wide open but I'm just saying a huge amount of people have just always locked their door out of habit, they just do it.

BBM
This is hilarious with your avatar! HAHA!!

 

[Chewy]

I have only read OP's statements that he has "limited mobility" without his prosthetics. I haven't read that he's able to "walk" on his stumps. Do you have a link with a quote from OP that he's able to "walk" on his stumps?

the point is that he doesn't get around dragging himself on his butt. Obviously his mobility is limited but that doesn't mean he's struggling dragging himself around, he's an athlete. Here's just a regular bilateral amputee.

[video=youtube;MV2hmtnb9zE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MV2hmtnb9zE[/video]

 

[danzn16]

I don't have the link handy, but I seem to remember him stating that he felt she must have gotten out of the bed to go into the bathroom while he was brining in the fan and closing the balcony door. That would make me think that he is saying she was in the bed when he got up and then somehow quietly got out of bed to go to the bathroom without him realizing it and hadn't put 2 and 2 together to realize it wasn't an intruder.

I don't know....like I've said before, I want to believe him, but honestly, who in their right mind would discharge a firearm 4 times without being very sure of the situation around them. Legs or no legs.

Also-for what it's worth, I wouldn't even think to completely wreck the door to my bathroom with 4 bullets unless I knew there was someone on the other side of that door-scared or not.

Good points. If I got up to bring things inside and then heard noises in a bathroom... well my first thought would be wow, my lover had to pee!! I mean really, is he crazy?? I understand SA is dangerous. But he is in a guarded community and has firearms, he's okay. Assess the situation before you go bat-***** crazy! This man does not need a firearm, especially hearing about previous accidental discharges. I would normally be a huge advocate about most people having firearms especially someone who is handicapped but this guy is obviously a risk to others.

 

[Estelle]

The problem with this statement is there is no evidence of a fight, physically or just yelling at each other. We can assume all we want on scenarios but lets look at what the current evidence provides. They lead investigator, who supposedly has experience, got up there today and said there is no evidence that disproves OP's version of events. The reason for this is there is no evidence that goes against what he said. Nobody heard them screaming at each other, nobody heard a fight, she doesn't have defensive wounds, etc etc etc.

I agree completely that blind shooting at a door indicates a number of things, the very least of which is lack of judgement if his story is true. You can say there are holes in his story and I would believe you. The problem is there is holes in a whole bunch of other scenarios too.

IMO Botha felt nervous or threatened by Roux and had not had time to look at each aspect in enough depth. I think a good prosecution barrister would have made a better case but the detective had the job who seemed to be very unsophisticated.

IMO Botha had two statements from neighbours about the lights on and arguing heard so why didn't he read them out?

He agreed she did not have defensive wounds but what about the crushed skull and cricket bat? Will that come up today?

Then he turns around and agrees with Roux that there is no evidence that disproves OP's version!!!!! IMO there was but he was hopeless in getting that message over. Botha should be sacked as he did not seal the crime scene and Carl and lawyer were able to possibly manipulate the crime scene before police got there.

 

[wfgodot]

If Roux-Botha would have been a prize fight, the referee would have stopped it.

I've either seen, seen on TV, or read about (usually the case) scores of cross-exams in cases, and Botha received a terrible mauling.

 

[Estelle]

Where is the verified link that she had a crushed skull because that has not been mentioned in court at all.

Well I have assumed that we will hear about the forensics, cricket bat, autopsy, his drug test, etc. today.

Experts need to report that.

 

[Patticake]

One of the many things I'm wondering at this point: Why did he carry Reeva downstairs prior to paramedics arriving? It seems odd to me that he would remove her from the scene of the "accident". Was he hoping to prevent anyone from viewing the scene?

I read tho a couple of days ago and it might answer your question:


http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/19/world/africa/south-africa-pistorius-case/index.html


"Reeva was slumped over but alive," he said.

Pistorius said he called for help and was told to take her to the hospital himself.

He carried her downstairs and tried to help but, but she died.

.

 

[Wondergirl]

I think there are quite a few things that are inaccurate/misleading in the pictograph I posted upthread. (eg. gun under pillow/gun under bed; crawling; angle of gun pointing; ) but, the picture is useful to show the actual layout of the house, and a working timeline of OP's versions in a visual way.

Here is another one, FWIW:

Picture Exhibit from Court:

http://news.sky.com/story/1054569/oscar-pistorius-what-police-found-at-the-scene

 

[Patticake]

According to Botha's testimony, the witness reported hearing two people fighting/talking loudly. Nowhere in OP's affidavit does he state that anyone but himself uttered a sound. How does the witness's report reconcile with what OP claims occurred? If the witness is to be believed, more than one person's voice was heard from 2 - 3 a.m.

On the same topic, I'm wondering if there are any witness reports from the neighbors on either side of him. Looking at the photos of his home, it is clear that he is very close to the neighboring houses.
.

 

[Estelle]

So what are the odds he gets bail? 70-30? For? Against?

After Botha botched things up, I think it will be manslaughter Section 5 so he will be released on bail.

However, there might be stronger evidence of premeditation today.

 

[Patticake]

I have only read OP's statements that he has "limited mobility" without his prosthetics. I haven't read that he's able to "walk" on his stumps. Do you have a link with a quote from OP that he's able to "walk" on his stumps?

Without looking it up, my understanding was that OP stated he had mobility without his prosthetics.

Weren't his legs amputated BELOW the knee?

It would be like walking around on your knees, not your feet. Not ideal, but not a huge impediment IMO.

 

[Patticake]

Well I guess that depends on whether he takes off the prosthetics, then gets into bed, or if he takes them off once seated on the bed.

I would think his bed would be low no matter whether he removed his legs before or after he gets in bed.

Once in bed, it seems more than likely that he, too, would rise to use the bathroom without putting on his legs again.

Today's platform beds are almost at ground level.

 

[Wondergirl]

One bullet in the passageway and 2 Iphones on the Shower Mat.

Now that is perplexing.