General Discussion Thread #1 -Bail Hearing

[Xavier]

[QUOTE=NocturnalLady;8887904]I agree. If he's someone so paranoid and traumatized by previous robberies that he sleeps with a gun under his bed (as he states have happened to him) then why on earth would he leave windows and sliding glass doors to balconies open? Balconies are an OBVIOUS entry point for intruders.

Also, the sequence of the calls he made does not make sense to me. If this was a true accident I think he would have called the equivalent of 911 first.

Also he has a dog. Where was the dog? Why didn't he wonder why the dog was not barking like it might have at an intruder?

What about the reports we have heard that the police were called to the house about 4 hours before the shooting? The neighbors heard a big fight then and the police said it was a domestic violence call.[/QUOTE]



I agree Nocturnal, very fishy...somehow this dog does'nt hunt

-- Reeva was said to left OP's house 2 hours or so before the shooting...OK was this verified by someone other than OP? A freind of Reeva's who saw her then?

-- Reeva's Time Of Death will be crucial and validate OP's timeline story
If Reeva was killed during the argument then TOD will verfiy this

-- OP stating the window/sliding doors left open is fishy, especially since many here believe OP would be aware of open windows/doors

-- You'd think with the commotion going on, OP yelling for Reeva, she would've answered back she was safe? So why would OP believe an intruder was in the bathroom?

 

[brownbread]

I think it was more for the purpose of laying out his position about what happened to try to make bail. He had to give a story so that the court could consider whether he even met the criteria for being held without bail under the charges that were against him. Under his account presumably he would not & therefore he should get bail. I guess tomorrow the prosecution will tell what they think happened.

It's interesting to see the way this works in other countries because I know that no lawyer in the USA would want his client to make a statement like that as part of the court record at this point in the process!

I don't think the prosecution come back with anything now, do they? The judge has already decided it is to be treated as a schedule 6 offence, I think all that is left to happen is for OPs team to argue a case for bail in the context of it being considered schedule six.

 

[Xavier]

A Few Things to Consider:

-- OP's home looks like a gated community with 24/7 security, where all people enter through a security guard & gated entrance...So if Reeva left OP's, was this verified by the night security guard? You can't get in/out without permission from the guard

-- Reeva's time of death is crucial and forensics can tell if she was shot 4 times first, then hit with the bat or vice versa

-- Were there blood spatters if OP smacked her with the bat? A crushed skull would probably leave flying blood spatters around consistent with a blunt force trauma

-- I think OP saw Reeva's messages from Francois, who played cricket too and OP started to taunt her with the bat he kept in the bedroom, then started hitting her with it, killing her, then he gathered his wits to concoct an intrusion story.....But didnt police stop by and question OP or the neighbors about the argument?

Any thoughts are appreciated WSer's

 

[jjenny]

I don't think she left. From his statement, he obviously knew she was in the apartment.

 

[Estelle]

Read the scanned copy of the actual affridavid
http://www.pod702.co.za/Eyewitnessnews/docs/130219oscar_papers.pdf

 

[Xavier]

I may sound like I was born yesterday, but I believe him. Every word.

Having read some things he said in the past about his fear of intruders, he sounded exactly like the sort of person who would be paranoid enough to instantly think he had an intruder.

Innocent until proven guilty Shadow, I agree...but this is very, very suspicious of foul play, a crime of a jealous lover

What's crucial is Reeva's time of death and what came first, the gunshots or the bat hitting her...Were there blood spatters in the bedroom consistent with a blunt force trauma wound

 

[Inobu]

I am also curious as to why he claims he was afraid to turn on the light, but not afraid to scream at the intruder.
If you are afraid to turn on the lights, I'd think you would also want to be quiet.

He reiterates the status of the lights (off) to insure the where about of Reeva remains unknown. Notice he says the bedroom is pitch dark twice but the door in the bathroom is visible. The light is a device in the story allowing the flow of the scenario to coincide with the final out come. Mistaken identity

Inobu

 

[Estelle]

"Assuming that Oscar's affidavit is 100% true (have my doubts ...), then I believe he is still guilty of premeditated murder. He got his gun, walked 7m to the bathroom door and shot through the door at least three times, with the direct intent to kill whoever was behind the door.

He may not have directly intended to kill Reeva, but he intended to kill the individual behind the door, who posed absolutely no direct threat on his life. The door was closed! How could it be a life threatening situation. It could have been a cat?

If you take his affidavit as the truth, he still wanted to kill who ever was behind the door. That is premeditated murder. If he had no intention to kill, one shot would have sufficed. Or more logically given the fact that there was no threat, a simple question would have been the reasonable thing to do.

The constitution upholds the right to life very strongly. Pistorius has denied Reeva that right. He must suffer the consequences. It is time he accepted this. He wanted to kill who ever was behind that door. He had intent.

He knew what he was doing when he activey ooked for his gun, actively walked to the door, took aim and then fired at least 3 shots. Premeditated murder.

P.s. If Oscar was so concerned about safety, then how was his lawyer friend able to open his front door, before Oscar had gotten to it, to unlock it? She said she opened the front door and Oscar was walking down the stairs with Reeva's body in his arms? "

Assuming that Oscar's affidavit is 100% true (have my doubts ...), then I believe he is still guilty of premeditated murder. He got his gun, walked 7m to the bathroom door and shot through the door at least three times, with the direct intent to kill whoever was behind the door.

He may not have directly intended to kill Reeva, but he intended to kill the individual behind the door, who posed absolutely no direct threat on his life. The door was closed! How could it be a life threatening situation. It could have been a cat?

If you take his affidavit as the truth, he still wanted to kill who ever was behind the door. That is premeditated murder. If he had no intention to kill, one shot would have sufficed. Or more logically given the fact that there was no threat, a simple question would have been the reasonable thing to do.

The constitution upholds the right to life very strongly. Pistorius has denied Reeva that right. He must suffer the consequences. It is time he accepted this. He wanted to kill who ever was behind that door. He had intent.

He knew what he was doing when he activey ooked for his gun, actively walked to the door, took aim and then fired at least 3 shots. Premeditated murder.

P.s. If Oscar was so concerned about safety, then how was his lawyer friend able to open his front door, before Oscar had gotten to it, to unlock it? She said she opened the front door and Oscar was walking down the stairs with Reeva's body in his arms around 4AM?"

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Oscar-faces-another-gruelling-day-in-court-20130219

 

[Inobu]

Xavier

I think the neighbors can create a time line and also give insight to what happen.

They referred to the "things" they heard.

When was the last time you heard the "things"

What was the time of the shot and their sequence.

Pop........1 minute pop, pop, pop,
Pop, pop, pop..........2 minutes pop.

The single pop could be the one casing in the bed room.

4 continuous pops means that he dropped the one casing in the bedroom or moved the casing.

There are a lot of factors that could shed a lot of light onto the events and establish time lines.

Inobu

 

[redheadedgal]

I do not really care who is hot????? Someone who was a very beautiful woman just lost her life. It is not about who is hot or not.

lol--

feel free to skip over any other post you don't care for

 

[mnegri1973]

Yep I know...this is why one needs to see the layout of the house. I find it very strange that the toilet was so small...in a house(mansion) the main bedroom, being Oscars, would no doubt have a full bathroom on suite...how was she shot in a small 1.4 toilet?? Unless she was in a guest loo AWAY from the main bedroom. In majority of homes, there is main bedroom with its own bathroom...and then a family bathroom which is a bath,shower, basin and a separate loo next to it. The size of the loo really throws me???

This might have been answered already, if so, sorry for the repeat. I believe that Reeva was in the master bathroom. The actual toilet had its own little room with in the actual bathroom. That way someone could still have privacy while your significant other used the shower or sink.

HTH

MN ~


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[Patticake]

when will the twitter accounts get going again? yesterday only a few reporters were let in and they certainly didn't know in advance they would make it inside.

Here is the beginning. OP has arrived:

https://twitter.com/search?q=#oscarpistorius&src=typd

 

[squeaky]

#OscarPistorius A throng of journalists have started queing outside the Pretoria Magistrate Court pic.twitter.com/HStvtyju @ewnreporter

#OscarPistorius has been brought into court via a back entrance again, avoiding the cameras. @ewnreporter

#OscarPistorius His legal team has just walked through the front doors here, carrying stuffed briefcases and rolled up documents. @ewnreporter

 

[redheadedgal]

Not sure where Oscar's bedroom is in this pic, if it is off the circular hall or not.

i believe that marble (?) carpet is in front of the front door

Google "reeva steenkamp pics" then look at the center image.

This is a high profile male born in South Africa.

which pic are you referring to? your google might give different results than i get... thx

 

[Estelle]

Something is missing how did he see in the dark? I mean he reached in the dark for his gun or did he see in the dark his gun but not Reeva?

How can he be so mobile in the dark room?

How did he know the toilet door was locked, if he turned the knob surely Reeva screamed I'm here!

Some small details don't make sense

So if the light was on then he would have seen Reeva was not in her bed when he went to his bed to fetch the gun. Playing devils advocate. Still want to know how did he know the door was locked? Also why would she lock the door specially in the dark??

 

[Carol70]

I don't think the prosecution come back with anything now, do they? The judge has already decided it is to be treated as a schedule 6 offence, I think all that is left to happen is for OPs team to argue a case for bail in the context of it being considered schedule six.

Nope, the charge could still be downgraded to a S5 charge today or at a later date.

As per my previous post regarding manslaughter/cupable homicide...I found out last night regardless, Oscar still will face a charge of Premeditated Murder. In SA, you are NOT allowed to kill an intruder if there is no direct threat on your life...so if someone is in your home but not armed or directly threatening you, you may not kill them. Naturally, Oscar was not directly threatened so he should never have shot his gun.

 

[squeaky]

https://twitter.com/ewnreporter

#OscarPistorius Today, we're expecting the NPA to call investigating officer Hilton Botha to argue that Pistorius planned the murder. @ewnreporter

#OscarPistorius Very pleased to report that court officials are setting up an overflow room for journalists replete with video screens etc. @ewnreporter

 

[jjenny]

This might have been answered already, if so, sorry for the repeat. I believe that Reeva was in the master bathroom. The actual toilet had its own little room with in the actual bathroom. That way someone could still have privacy while your significant other used the shower or sink.

HTH

MN ~


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Agreed. The toilet is inside the master bathroom and in a separate space. This is different from most US bathrooms, where toilet is in the same room not separated by the door.

 

[Carol70]

Something is missing how did he see in the dark? I mean he reached in the dark for his gun or did he see in the dark his gun but not Reeva?

How can he be so mobile in the dark room?

How did he know the toilet door was locked, if he turned the knob surely Reeva screamed I'm here!

Some small details don't make sense

So if the light was on then he would have seen Reeva was not in her bed when he went to his bed to fetch the gun. Playing devils advocate. Still want to know how did he know the door was locked? Also why would she lock the door specially in the dark??

Its a moot point, I can do a number of things in my bedroom in the dark so as not to disturb my husband at night...He also said he cannot recall putting the lights on but assumes he did after the shooting.

As per his statement, he only found out the door was locked after he had shot it and realised Reeva was not in bed!

Im very curious to find out what evidence the defence has asked the pro's to hand over this morning???

 

[jjenny]

Nope, the charge could still be downgraded to a S5 charge today or at a later date.

As per my previous post regarding manslaughter/cupable homicide...I found out last night regardless, Oscar still will face a charge of Premeditated Murder. In SA, you are NOT allowed to kill an intruder if there is no direct threat on your life...so if someone is in your home but not armed or directly threatening you, you may not kill them. Naturally, Oscar was not directly threatened so he should never have shot his gun.

Glad to hear it. Not that I find his story all that believable to begin with, but one shouldn't be shooting at bathroom's doors, especially considering one knew full well there was a woman in the apartment. And if we are to believe his story, he never even checked to see if this woman was in bed despite getting his gun from under that bed. That is not reasonable behavior, IMO, any way I look at it.