General Discussion Thread #1 -Bail Hearing

[SweetT]

We don't know. Since she is gone, we will never know with any certainty.

I would think a thorough investigation would be able to tell if she had recently urinated in the toilet, and if her pants were down when she was carried down the stairs. I also believe that she would have screamed after the first shot if she was alive and could.

 

[TheDuchess]

BBM

That's still pretty far away for an accurate witness statement. 300 yards = 900 feet. That would be more than a few average city blocks.

Not a huge difference but I thought it was 300 meters. That would be 328 yards or almost 1000 feet.

I would like to know what is in between the OP home and the neighbor? Are there several other homes, trees, etc...or is it an open field? I would have a difficult time believing that someone could hear and see all of that from so far away at such a wee hour if there are lots of obstructions, but if there is an open field on a quiet night, I could see better that sound can travel that far. It is still pretty far though. 3 1/4 football fields!!! That's pretty far!!!

 

[whitedove]

Do we know if the GF was on the toilet and actually using the restroom or not? I know I find the BF story quite a stretch but I am trying to see if she was or had actually been on the toilet and going to potty or if she was just hiding in the bathroom which I suspect is the case.

Yes, her bladder was empty as if she had just been to the toilet.

 

[SweetT]

The first thing I do when I hear noises in the middle of the night is check to see if my husband is beside me or not...then I will either wake him up if he is not awake and then let him know I am going to go check it out if he doesnt go first. I then go to where the noise is and ask if it is my son and wait for a response. If I get no response then I am gonna check it out further. I don't have a gun so shooting isnt an option, but I think it would be really stupid to not at least do these simple things before shooting. If it got to a point that I became afraid for my safety I would call the police, but checking where everyone in the home is seems to be common sense before calling police, so I would think it would also make sense before firing a deadly weapon.

 

[SweetT]

Yes, her bladder was empty as if she had just been to the toilet.

IDK if that tells us anything, I have heard that a lot of people urinate, deficate themselves upon dying. Of course you may also pee yourself if you are scared. I would want to know if there was urine in the toilet and if her pants were down as if going to the bathroom. Also I had seen another picture of the bathroom and I thought the window was above the toilet in the restroom.

 

[Carol70]

I would think a thorough investigation would be able to tell if she had recently urinated in the toilet, and if her pants were down when she was carried down the stairs. I also believe that she would have screamed after the first shot if she was alive and could.

I highly doubt that the police forensics checked the loo to see if she had used it, was in the process of using it etc as they didn't find a bullet that was in the loo...it was found the next day when the defence forensics were allowed access to the crime scene.

 

[21merc7]

Not a huge difference but I thought it was 300 meters. That would be 328 yards or almost 1000 feet.

I would like to know what is in between the OP home and the neighbor? Are there several other homes, trees, etc...or is it an open field? I would have a difficult time believing that someone could hear and see all of that from so far away at such a wee hour if there are lots of obstructions, but if there is an open field on a quiet night, I could see better that sound can travel that far. It is still pretty far though. 3 1/4 football fields!!! That's pretty far!!!

There are homes right beside his and across the street. He lived in a "secure complex" or something like that, not certain if complex is the correct word.

You can see some of it in the pic at the bottom of this article. It is a normal "city" neighborhood, not suburbs or country:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ot...troom-drama-funeral-held-Reeva-Steenkamp.html

Direct link to pic:

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/02/19/article-2280902-1793282E000005DC-370_634x368.jpg

 

[cityslick]

If there were 3 shots in quick succession, and if the first shot hit her in the head, then she's not going to scream. The bigger issue for me is how much time elapsed between him yelling at the intruder, him getting the gun and him shooting. After he yelled, if she was really in the bathroom, wouldn't she had said something then or even poked her head out to see what was going on?

Did she hear him yell about an intruder and her first inclination was to lock the door so that the intruder wouldn't get to her, not knowing he was actually yelling at her?

The biggest question, and the one that will ultimately cost him, is why he felt the need to blindly shoot at the door without ever verifying who (if anyone) was in the bathroom? Whether he purposely attacked her or his story is 100% accurate, there is no explanation for him to just blinding go shooting a gun in his house without never even actually seeing a person in his house. I know there are a lot of gun owners who stand by the fact that if they see anyone in their house they are going to shoot first and ask questions later. But in his own account, he doesn't even verify that there is someone in his house. He sees an open window, hears a noise, and just started shooting. On top of that, he never ever verifies that Reeva is in bed. There are two people in the house, you know that, someones in the bathroom, shouldn't you at least check if the other person is using the bathroom?

I'm like a lot of others, I want to believe him because I can see a scenario of why someone would be so scared due to their lack of legs, plus the environment that they live in. But you have to stretch your mind to either a) his mind was compromised, b) he's an incredibly paranoid individual, way more than normal and c) he has no common sense.

 

[Carol70]

:

Well, didn't he say he screamed at her (before the shots) to call police? I can't remember if that was verified or not.

Well, he says he screamed at the intruder, screamed at Reeva to call police, heard movement and started shooting. He screamed again for Reeva to call police, she doesn't respond and he realises she maybe in the toilet( this more than likely took 1minute and not a lot of time to think clearly IMO), he then runs to put his feet on, screams out the balcony for help and breaks down the door.

This is consistent with initial reports on the day of the murder of neighbours hearing screaming, shots fired and more screams if memory serves me correct.

 

[Carol70]

I'm wondering if neighbours could have heard the cricket bat being bashed against the door? Cricket bats are pretty solid, and I'm sure on contact it could have made quite a bang sound??? Like a shot fired??? Is this possible?

 

[joe jones]

If there was screaming, arguing and shouting going on then surely the neighbour whose house is right next to his either side would have heard it also, if somebody who was 300 or 600 ft away (the police witness seems to be undecided in his distance) could hear then they surely could, and it seems they didn't as the prosecution would surely have mentioned other witnesses in court today,

I am unsure as to what exactly happened, or how much culpability lies with Oscar as to the murder charges, I have read interviews where he has said he feels vulnerable when he has his prosthetics off, so if he did have them off he may have been a tad more anxious and act first think later if he genuinely thought a burglar had gained access to his house,

another issue is he would have had ample opportunity to kill her at any point that evening if he chose to without shooting through a door and possibly missing or wounding her, he had no idea when shooting through the door whether he had hit whoever he thought was behind he door, I would be interested to know if he used all the bullets in his gun or if he only used a few of them,

I think he will probably get bail, and we shall see what happens from here,

 

[Patticake]

:
Well, he says he screamed at the intruder, screamed at Reeva to call police, heard movement and started shooting. He screamed again for Reeva to call police, she doesn't respond and he realises she maybe in the toilet( this more than likely took 1minute and not a lot of time to think clearly IMO), he then runs to put his feet on, screams out the balcony for help and breaks down the door.

This is consistent with initial reports on the day of the murder of neighbours hearing screaming, shots fired and more screams if memory serves me correct.

Frankly, I'm of the opinion that all the screaming, all from him, was for the sole benefit of the neighbors.

I believe he knew she was in the bathroom.

.

 

[joe jones]

http://www.latimes.com/news/world/w...-attacks-police-work-20130220,0,4249062.story

from many of the media accounts today was a better day for the defence than prosecution

 

[Carol70]

Do we know if the GF was on the toilet and actually using the restroom or not? I know I find the BF story quite a stretch but I am trying to see if she was or had actually been on the toilet and going to potty or if she was just hiding in the bathroom which I suspect is the case.

She was shot through her night clothes on her right side so she couldnt have been on the loo...I imagine, IMO, after she had already been to the loo, she hears him shouting, pulls pants up and rushes to the door to lock/listen...she was more than likely standing behind the door, possibly even with her ear against the door to try hear what was happening when she was shot. Due to the size of the room and the fact OP moved her out the room after the shooting, I suppose it's something we will never know.

Moo ( lol, does this mean "my own opinion"??)

Btw, I really lolol'ed at bull semen?? Sies!!!

 

[weeeva]

Do we know if the GF was on the toilet and actually using the restroom or not? I know I find the BF story quite a stretch but I am trying to see if she was or had actually been on the toilet and going to potty or if she was just hiding in the bathroom which I suspect is the case.

I think it was mentioned yesterday that GF's bladder was empty at time of death.
So it seems she did in fact use the toilet, casting doubt on whether or not she was in there hiding from OP or just using the toilet for it's purpose.

 

[Carol70]

http://www.latimes.com/news/world/w...-attacks-police-work-20130220,0,4249062.story

from many of the media accounts today was a better day for the defence than prosecution

I can only imagine that in the office of Botha right now, heads are rolling!!
There is already word on the streets with bets are being placed that the cops bungle the case and it gets thrown out of court. Today I'm sure those odds rose quite significantly

 

[weeeva]

At least CONFIRM your GF is not in there before shooting.

Unless he truly believed his GF was still in bed.

 

[Carol70]

Btw, SA works in Meters, not sure what the conversions are for yards, feet. The witness was initially 600m away, then down to 300m. So somewhere between those 2 measurements I guess.

 

[TheDuchess]

There are homes right beside his and across the street. He lived in a "secure complex" or something like that, not certain if complex is the correct word.

You can see some of it in the pic at the bottom of this article. It is a normal "city" neighborhood, not suburbs or country:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ot...troom-drama-funeral-held-Reeva-Steenkamp.html

Direct link to pic:

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/02/19/article-2280902-1793282E000005DC-370_634x368.jpg

OK..thanks for this...I am assuming that this is a single-family home I am looking at and not an apartment complex. I would love to know where the witness lives. Is he right next door? If so, that isn't really 300 yards. Do they actually have a visual of the bedroom window from their home? Did the people right next door hear anything? I now have more questions than answers.

This SA court system is really good for us sleuthers. We would never have this kind of information and insight into a case in the US at this point, just from a bail hearing. Typically, there isn't any discussion about the evidence or merits, which would usually be discussed at a preliminary hearing. A bail hearing is usually straightforward-criminal background, seriousness of the crime, liklihood of flight risk, etc...

 

[danzn16]

If you've seen the ends of his legs the bone is very thin and it's sort of pointy. I think OP saying he has mobility on his stumps doesn't necessarily mean he walks on the tips of them. It would seem to me to be easier to walk more on his knees with the remaining bone as support. But this is all just an opinion and I'm sure we won't really know about exactly how that works until there is a trial. The only difference it would really make is in how tall he would be without his prosthetic legs. If he walks in a kneeling position he would be at least a foot shorter than if he walks on the tips or ends of his legs. The height difference would presumably impact his ability to see if Reeva was still in the bed or not.

I don't think it matters whether he was walking on his knees or stumps. The first thing any rational person would do if they believed there was an intruder would be 1. Get their weapon 2. Check on their loved on in bed and make sure their loved one is actually there and okay. And all this would be done simultaneously. So no matter his height difference these things would still be done if he was of sound mind. Also he said he was afraid for their lives if the intruder came barging out the door. Well then why the heck would start screaming like crazy? That would make an intruder come out, know the occupants know he's there, and know he was under attack and possible shoot you! I mean really! Sounds like he is only making excuses for why there was screaming that night that the neighbors heard. None of this adds up.