General Discussion Thread #1 -Bail Hearing

[Cherwell]

She was more than a guest, she was sleeping with the owner.

I was just clarifying the point because you said "a home (she was) living in".

But take my word for it, lots of people DO lock the toilet door even when at home. Maybe out of habit, and some people are just more fastidious than others.

 

[Carol70]

For anyone interested...a summary of today's events in court and a pretty nice display of the house and how apparent events unfolded.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blo...-live-coverage#block-5124c7c495cb419168cb4374

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/int...va-steenkamp-interactive?INTCMP=ILCNETTXT3487

 

[SweetT]

If it's true that the bedroom door was locked, that would have cost time even if the key was in the lock. Then no doubt there were multiple locks and security devices which might have made getting out of the house problematical (she didn't live there, remember). No, I think the toilet was a natural refuge, being the nearest place she would quickly think of where she could easily lock herself in.

Well if your BF was a gold medalist in running I think going down the stairs and trying to get out of the home were a moot point. I think she took the quickest place of refuge she could find with a door between her and him. Crouched by the toilet and not in front of the door..If she was in there using the potty, would she not have turned on the light? A good giveaway that your GF is in there and using the toilet.

 

[joe jones]

If he was chasing her with a gun why wait until she was behind a door then just start shooting blind, then get the cricket bat to bash the door down. Wouldn't you first break the door, then start shooting (to know that you hit your target)?

Better question, if she was truly hiding from him, once she got in the bathroom, wouldn't a person get away from the door so not to be the target of bullets coming through it?

such as lying down on the floor, she may have been hit with a ricochet bullet but not a direct hit,

 

[gxm]

I was just clarifying the point because you said "a home (she was) living in".

But take my word for it, lots of people DO lock the toilet door even when at home. Maybe out of habit, and some people are just more fastidious than others.

But do they shut and lock the door in a windowless room and proceed to use the toilet in the dark? IMO, if one is going to close and lock the door, one is also going to turn on the light. The main reason for leaving the toilet door open at night would be so that there's some moonlight to see by. IMO, it goes without saying that one would turn the light on if one were using the bathroom and not hiding.

 

[Cherwell]

I don't get that logic, a man with a gun versus a locked toilet door, or an attempt to get down the stairs, she would have known how little protection the toilet offered her

In a situation like that, you don't have much thinking time. But another possibility is that she was in the toilet when he found something (such as a message on her phone or ipad) and he rushed in to the bathroom in a rage.

 

[SweetT]

Here is another problem with his story. It appears that his bedroom is on the 2nd floor which is why they would call it a balcony. Otherwise it would be a deck. So he really thought someone climbed into his 2nd floor window from outside with the dogs?

 

[21merc7]

Well if your BF was a gold medalist in running I think going down the stairs and trying to get out of the home were a moot point. I think she took the quickest place of refuge she could find with a door between her and him. Crouched by the toilet and not in front of the door..If she was in there using the potty, would she not have turned on the light? A good giveaway that your GF is in there and using the toilet.

Ah yes, I see. If she went in to the bathroom while he was on the balcony, the light would be on. He would see that light on in the "pitch black" room and known she was using the bathroom. An intruder would not turn on the light, nor lock the door.

 

[Cherwell]

But do they shut and lock the door in a windowless room and proceed to use the toilet in the dark? IMO, if one is going to close and lock the door, one is also going to turn on the light. The main reason for leaving the toilet door open at night would be so that there's some moonlight to see by. IMO, it goes without saying that one would turn the light on if one were using the bathroom and not hiding.

How do we know she didn't turn on the light? The lights could have been on already for all we know. We've only got his word that they'd turned in for the night.

 

[gxm]

Why did she hide in the toilet? She may not have had anywhere else to run. OP may have been standing between her and the best exit.

 

[gxm]

How do we know she didn't turn on the light? The lights could have been on already for all we know. We've only got his word that they'd turned in for the night.

Exactly. And if she were using the bathroom with the light turned on (in a windowless room that's the only way to see), then OP would not have mistaken her for an intruder because an intruder would have kept the light out.

 

[gxm]

Here is another problem with his story. It appears that his bedroom is on the 2nd floor which is why they would call it a balcony. Otherwise it would be a deck. So he really thought someone climbed into his 2nd floor window from outside with the dogs?

And snuck past him and his sleeping girlfriend to… hide in the toilet? Doubtful, at best.

 

[Zinn]

I'd like to know more about Reeva's clothing, as follows:

- What was Reeva wearing when she arrived on 2/13?
- What was Reeva wearing when she practiced yoga?
- Regarding the white shorts and black vest she was reportedly wearing when police arrived, were these street clothes? Could they be considered sleeping clothes?
- Were more traditional sleep clothes found at the residence? If so, had they been worn?
- Aside from the outfit worn on 2/13 and the white shorts and black vest, was an additional unworn outfit for 2/14 found at the residence?

When I first read the affidavit, I was perplexed by the inclusion of the yoga comment, and I'm now wondering if this could be some sort of explanation about the clothing she was wearing when police arrived. Just thinking out loud here. Purely speculating. If she was wearing street clothes when police arrived, that seems significant to me.

All of the above is just my opinion and speculation.

 

[MissDiva]

The problem is that people are trying to see this within the confines of either his story or what they want to believe.

The fact that her bladder was empty means nothing except that she didn't need to pee when she was killed.

The fact that the bathroom door was locked doesn't mean anything except that it was locked.

The fact is, he knew she was there, there was enough ambient light in the room to see if she was in bed before he got up to close the door and the blinds and the curtains and bring the fan in (otherwise what's the point of closing the blinds and curtains if it's not dark enough already?), and yet he still shot through a door four times without getting ANY confirmation that she was in bed or in the bathroom.

The fact is that the best he can hope for is culpable homicide, which is the unlawful negligent killing of another human being, at which rate he'll hopefully be sent to jail for several years if not longer.

The fact is that I personally hope he's convicted of everything he's being charged with and receives the harshest sentence possible, as I personally believe he killed her, and not by accident.

 

[SweetT]

another thing that bothers me is that she was shot on her Right side. This disproves she was on the toilet when shot otherwise she would have been shot on left side or straight on. Another indication that she was trying to hide in that bathroom.

 

[Carol70]

The black vest and shorts could very well have been sleeping clothes. We call it a vest, as pointed out to me somewhere else in this thread, you guys call it a camisole or tank top. It's a very common form of sleep wear here especially in summer. But it's hard to be certain without actually seeing the clothing.

 

[21merc7]

He did have to get out of the bed, around the bed, over to the balcony, to shut the doors and get the fan. Then he had to come back to the bed to get the gun that was on the same side of the bed as she was. He had to have looked in that bed at some point. I really have a hard time thinking, if he was newly in love, he didn't first glance over for that loving look when he first woke to shut the balcony doors.

 

[Zinn]

I'm also curious to know if they feel she was sitting or standing when she was shot. Did they specify she was sitting? If so, when she was discovered in her shorts, were they pulled up or down? If the shorts were pulled up when she was found, what is the explanation for her sitting on the toilet with her shorts pulled up? Perhaps the defense would say she heard Oscar shouting about an intruder and she chose to remain seated in the bathroom amidst the chaos?

 

[gxm]

I'd like to know more about Reeva's clothing, as follows:

- What was Reeva wearing when she arrived on 2/13?
- What was Reeva wearing when she practiced yoga?
- Regarding the white shorts and black vest she was reportedly wearing when police arrived, were these street clothes? Could they be considered sleeping clothes?
- Were more traditional sleep clothes found at the residence? If so, had they been worn?
- Aside from the outfit worn on 2/13 and the white shorts and black vest, was an additional unworn outfit for 2/14 found at the residence?

When I first read the affidavit, I was perplexed by the inclusion of the yoga comment, and I'm now wondering if this could be some sort of explanation about the clothing she was wearing when police arrived. Just thinking out loud here. Purely speculating. If she was wearing street clothes when police arrived, that seems significant to me.

All of the above is just my opinion and speculation.

It is perplexing. I have practiced yoga for 10 years and have never seen anyone wear a "vest" to practice. Black shorts and sports tank/bra would be more appropriate. Perhaps the "vest" refers to the British word for undershirt?

 

[Zinn]

I don't get that logic, a man with a gun versus a locked toilet door, or an attempt to get down the stairs, she would have known how little protection the toilet offered her

His affidavit stated he felt trapped in the bedroom because the bedroom door was locked. It didn't elaborate on why it would be so difficult to unlock the bedroom door. Perhaps a key was required, as was required to unlock the bathroom door from the inside.

JMO