General Discussion Thread #1 -Bail Hearing

[Carol70]

"@fayepeters: Perhaps they could get some jugglers and clowns for the breaks in this comedy of errors. #OscarPistorius

 

[Carol70]

EWN Reporter‏@ewnreporter

#OscarPistorius This is the motion the alleged "ex-wife of Pistorius' orthopedic surgeon" wanted to bring

http://ow.ly/i/1yGrU

Good grief...strange and stranger!!!

 

[squeaky]

last name uncertain

 

[katydid23]

11:43 - Aislinn Laing tweets: Colleague of WO Botha tells me he was at police college with him and he's "a really good officer" they can't do without. Says charges trumped up.

That's what I think. $ Money Talks---and it looks like OP may get away easy on this.

 

[Lola]

at this rate, we'll be breaking for lunch!

 

[squeaky]

i'm trying to keep my mind open on this but i'm also trying to keep the tinfoil hat off my head...

how realistic is the corruption theory here? is it feasible at all that this one man could have reached so many levels of the legal system? is it at all possible that [puts on tinfoil hat] whoever was responsible for assigning Botha to the case was compromised?

 

[Carol70]

EWN Reporter‏@ewnreporter

#OscarPistorius Botha has arrived. He is sitting in the dock. We wait for Nair. BB

 

[Lola]

#OscarPistorius Botha has arrived. He is sitting in the dock. We wait for Nair. BB

 

[Lola]

Botha arrives. He's smiling. #0scarPistorius @eNCAnews

 

[Lola]

Karyn Maughan ‏@karynmaughan
When I spoke to Botha this morning, he said he was worried about ”how will I get money for an advocate in criminal case?"

 

[katydid23]

i'm trying to keep my mind open on this but i'm also trying to keep the tinfoil hat off my head...

how realistic is the corruption theory here? is it feasible at all that this one man could have reached so many levels of the legal system? is it at all possible that [puts on tinfoil hat] whoever was responsible for assigning Botha to the case was compromised?

I believe Botha when he says these are trumped up charges to get him off this case. Look how it is all falling apart and making it look like OP will walk away.


http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/Ne...arges-20130221

Pistorius cop speaks out on charges

Hilton Botha is facing seven charges of attempted murder for allegedly firing shots at a minibus taxi carrying seven occupants. It has also been claimed that Botha was drunk at the time of the incident.

But on Thursday morning, the officer told eNCA that the incident was as a result of his investigation into the murder of Denise Stratford, whose body was stuffed into a drain.

“My blood was never tested for alcohol in the aftermath of the shooting. I wasn't drunk,” Botha said.

He said shots were fired at the taxi after it “tried to push us off the road”. Botha says he was pursuing a suspect for Stratford’s murder.

Botha was first charged back in 2009 but the charges were then provisionally withdrawn. The matter was then referred to the director of public prosecutions (DPP).

Botha: “I don't understand why the case was reinstated [on Wednesday]. I can only think this is linked to my work on Oscar Pistorius.”

.

 

[otyikondo]

another thing that bothers me is that she was shot on her Right side. This disproves she was on the toilet when shot otherwise she would have been shot on left side or straight on. Another indication that she was trying to hide in that bathroom.

Hi!

New here, having joined specifically to find some way through the misinformation surrounding a bail hearing that is being treated and "tweeted" like the trial of the century.

I picked your particular post to respond to because it is a symptom of that misinformation.

Firstly, you make an interesting observation. I'm just not sure whether it's correct or not, or if some of us are labouring under a spatial misconception here.

Can ANYONE confirm the exact layout of the Pistorius house?

Are we reliant on:
a) the image shown on the wall of the courtroom?
b) "artist's impressions"
c) something else? (for instance some grainy and not altogether confidence-inspiring photos offered by the tabloids...)

From where have you got YOUR image of how the bathroom allegedly looked, and the placement of the WC inside it?

Is it from the actual layout diagram (which looked like builder's plans to me... and these COULD naturally have been altered during construction, but...) of the Pistorius house, as projected on the wall in the courtroom, or are you working from the drawn diagrams in some newspapers?

Or better still, do you have access to police evidence photographs to enable us to know which way the WC actually faced...?

For, at least according to the layout of the room as was presented in court, were someone to be sitting on that potty, they would almost inevitably be struck first on the RIGHT side of their body by anyone firing from the logical angle OP would have taken.

In actual fact, EXACTLY as OP's defence claims (and I'm NOT here making a suggestion he's as innocent as the driven snow, by any means; I'm just saying...).

It is only if the WC is placed in a DIFFERENT location in the room (and at 90 degrees) from that of the official plans, i.e. as in the artist's drawings found in certain newspapers, that it becomes clear that "she couldn't possibly have been on the seat".

Unfortunately, this in turn means that the layout diagram of the Pistorius house as shown in the courtroom must be fundamentally WRONG. And also that Botha's testimony will have made absolutely no sense to anyone sitting there (unless he added "Of course, folks, this here useful diagram on the courtroom wall isn't what the bathroom looks like at all"...)
DID HE SAY THAT?

It certainly does not conform to the layout of the newspaper drawings, or, for that matter to the alleged photographs of "the bathroom" and "the toilet" published in certain papers, where the space apparently also has a washbasin, too, which is DEFINITELY NOT present in the court diagram, and which (at least in my view) would require the room to be appreciably LARGER than the suggested 1.14 x 1.4 metres.

FURTHERMORE... the tabloid photograph of the alleged toilet has no window (or no visible window). The house diagram shows a small window in the WC, and the window is also visible in exterior shots of the property.

I'm not sure, but I'm wondering if the photos dredged up by the tabloids and used as the basis for the newspaper diagrams (and, indirectly for your post and your supposition) may NOT be of that particular WC... (I'm also wondering where the hell these pictures CAME from in the first place...) and may in fact be images got from a real estate agent that refer to other, similar properties in the same gated community.
Either that or a DIFFERENT WC in Pistorius's house. I believe it is supposed to have four of them.

All this may mean nothing at all, but it IS significant in one important respect: it highlights the appalling amount of smoke and mirrors going on in a bail hearing that people are treating as if it were something else.
Much of what we are seeing and hearing is like shadow-boxing with a blindfold on, as neither side - not prosecution nor defence - has access to real hard material (e.g firm forensic evidence, ballistics, trajectories, etc.) as yet.

The fact that a relatively intelligent online discussion hinges in part on which way around a toilet seat was installed, and that we do not KNOW which way around it was... is disquieting. It is doubly disquieting if it is discovered that a newspaper picture has been taken as "the truth" of what the Pistorius home looks like.

There is a lot of speculation going around - but not much solid fact. Except that people are "trading in facts" via the Twitterosphere.

Have I got this all wrong? Anybody know better?

 

[Lola]

12:13 - Magistrate in, court resumes.

 

[Carol70]

Nair asks him if he would have been able to have given his evidence better in Afrikaans. Botha says yes, in some parts, but he is content to keep on speaking in English.


Hmmmm....are they going to swing it that he was compromised on the stand because he gave evidence in his second language????

 

[squeaky]

The defense team would now like to admit to evidence an audio recording featuring Botha using derogatory terms for disabled people. Botha will claim he was simply helping a writer with a screenplay.

:lol:

 

[Lola]

otyikondo - there is definitely a discrepancy in many of the layouts of the bathroom we've seen over the last 7 days. but i think you are correct.

 

[Lola]

12:17 - Nair asking Botha about incidents at Kyalami with Mark Bachelor and gun going off at Tasha's [restaurant].

12:15 - Magistrate asks why police investigator didn't give testimony in Afrikaans, his home language. Botha says he is fine with English.

Botha says he wants to continue in English. Nair revisiting his reasons for opposing bail: flight risk and violent behaviour.

 

[Lola]

Nair it appears there has been a lack of urgency tomobtain those phone records. BB

#OscarPistorius Nair don't you think if the deceased received calls between 2 & 3am it would change your position. BB

#OscarPistorius Nair with a matter of this magnitude does the state not have a means tom speed up the process? BB

#OscarPistorius Nair this incident took place on Valentines Day - did you obtain the detailed phone billing? Botha: I've asked for it. BB

 

[Lola]

Nair you should have elevated your request to your superiors. BB

 

[Lola]

12:20 - Nair: Did you not deem it necessary? Could you not have expedited it? Botha: I do want to see it.

12:19 - Nair: Did you obtain the detailed phone record and billing of deceased? Botha: I have asked for it but not seen it.

12:18 - Botha getting quizzed about the previous assault case against Pistorius which he dealt with that was withdrawn.

12:17 - Nair asking for more context on Samantha-party incident. Botha says Oscar Pistorius slammed door in her face. Piece of door fell on her.

12:17 - Nair asking Botha about incidents at Kyalami with Mark Bachelor and gun going off at Tasha's [restaurant].