General Discussion Thread #1 -Bail Hearing

[Lola]

Roux: going over the allegations the state has relied on to show the murder was premeditated... BB

 

[Carol70]

given what Nair said to Botha re phone records, i think Roux has won this round.

Absolutely, and it will be downgraded to a S5 offence!

 

[Lola]

Roux: what is significant, is what the state does not say... BB

 

[Lola]

Karyn Maughan ‏@karynmaughan
Roux: the state doesn't conclude that #OscarPistorius is guilty of a premeditated or planned murder.

 

[Lola]

Roux: in the charge sheet it simply states murder, not premeditated murder. BB

 

[Lola]

Roux: the preamble to the charge sheet lacks any substance to lead to the charge of murder. BB

judges love all this pre-existing law / i dotting t crossing. it's what they live for

 

[Lola]

#OscarPistorius Roux: Reeva's empty bladder explains her presence in the toilet. BB

#OscarPistorius Roux: thje applicant didn't need the locked toilet to kill Reeva, he could have done it in the bathroom. BB

 

[Lola]

Roux: Reeva's empty bladder explains her presence in the toilet. BB

 

[Lola]

Roux: the IO testified that Oscar's version is consistent with the known evidence, and he couldn't refute his version. BB

 

[Lola]

12:58 - Court adjourns for half an hour.

12:57 - Roux: State chose to ignore Oscar's spontaneous disclosure [of burglar].

12:56 - Roux: Every allegation in preamble of charge sheet was disproved by State's own evidence.

12:56 - Roux: We have demonstrated that every allegation in [the] charge sheet doesn't support [the] State’s claim that this was [a] planned murder.

12:55 - Roux: Botha was extremely selective and seemed determined to bolster the State's case.

12:54 - Roux: Investigating officer couldn't deny that Reeva's bladder was empty at three o'clock in the morning. [This] suggests she went to [the] toilet.

12:54 - Roux: If Pistorius planned to kill Reeva, he could have done it in the bedroom.

12:53 - Roux: [The] fact that Oscar Pistorius and Reeva spent [the] night together is consistent with [a] loving relationship, inconsistent with murder.

 

[Waddles]

Welcome to Websleuths otyikondo!

 

[Estelle]

http://www.sarie.com/bekendes/ons-praat-met/video-oscar-pistorius-se-sus-aimee-gesels?mv

Link to Sarie article on house in italy.

 

[otyikondo]

This pictograph has the toilet sitting on a different angle.


http://soletron.com/oscar-pistorius-swears-in-court-he-didnt-mean-to-kill-her-details/

Yes, I now notice, trawling back through pages 36-42 of this thread (I only joined the forum yesterday evening and had to wait for rights to post) that Wondergirl has hit on exactly the same point, and has very usefully posted two dramatically different images of how the room is supposed to look, highlighting just the problem I was raising. I'll probably find more as I go on.

That's the problem with playing catch-up!

I'd have to assume that those who chose to have the layout as in this latter diagram were basing themselves pretty exclusively on the "photographs" of the bathroom.

 

[Lola]

13:08 - Roux tells @BBCAndrewH he thinks decision on bail will only be made tomorrow [Friday]. ”We started too late”, says Roux.

13:01 - We're adjourning for a 30 minute lunch break. Oscar walks past, seems pretty calm again today. Tissues in hand unused, tweets Aislinn Laing.

 

[Estelle]

Aislinn Laing ‏@Simmoa

Adv Roux refers to "poor quality"of the evidence gathered by WO Botha and his team, points to state trying to hide "disastrous shortcomings"


What does this really mean?

 

[Lola]

i was strongly in the OP that b£$%rd camp....i suppose based on what came out in the press. AND NOW i want to know where the stories were coming from and WHO.

i am totally flummoxed as to why botha or his team wouldn't have been on the phone 24/7 to get phone records. if he'd had those AND they supported his case, this would have gone the other way, but right now, i'm convinced he'll get bail AND as Carol says may get reduced charge.

 

[21merc7]

I don't know about SA, but in the U.S. phone records take a few weeks to receive, even with Court Order.

 

[Lola]

Estelle, i'm reading that to be -- missed one bullet my forensic team found, didn't follow up with hospital, didn't follow up with guard, didn't nail down their witnesses and have the facts...was the house 600m or 300m? everything that Roux tore Botha apart with yesterday. the fact that Botha has a pending attempted murder case against him is just the cherry on the sundae of this case for OP and his legal team.

 

[Estelle]

What about the cricket bat? No forensics, mobile phone records or info on skull. This is the poorest bail application from the prosecution that one would ever think could happen. I think they could have the evidence but they have not presented it in a supportive way. They were very lazy IMO.

What about the new guy? Mark van Aarndt? or someone when is he going to take over? What's the betting OP will escape to a country without an extradition treaty now if he is released on bail which seems to be a foregone conclusion?

 

[Estelle]

Estelle, i'm reading that to be -- missed one bullet my forensic team found, didn't follow up with hospital, didn't follow up with guard, didn't nail down their witnesses and have the facts...was the house 600m or 300m? everything that Roux tore Botha apart with yesterday. the fact that Botha has a pending attempted murder case against him is just the cherry on the sundae of this case for OP and his legal team.

I would call a retrial of bail hearing due to Botha's ineptitude.