General Discussion Thread #1 -Bail Hearing

[Lola]

Phiyega on timing of NPA's decision: "I wish I had a crystal ball... Whether it's fair and whether it's square I cannot say.

 

[Lola]

David Smith ‏@SmithInAfrica
Phiyega: The leader of the investigation team will be the "top detective" in police, Lt-Gen V Moonoo, working with Gauteng commissioner.

 

[Lola]

@HiltonBotha @smithinafrica just googled him...Veneshkumar Moonoo on http://www.saps.gov.za site 100% legit

 

[Carol70]

Goodness.. could go into a second week. :what:

Well, that would of course allow for this scene to materialise:

Enter the adorable Charlize Theron (for it is she), armed with an envelope and a statuette:

"And this year's Pistorius for the Best Supporting Histrionics in an English-Language Bail Hearing goes to..."

:blushing:

Hahaha lol....

 

[Lola]

interesting choice - Domestic Violence Act Implementation

<snip> Major-General Vinesh Kumar Moonoo, Head: General Investigations, SAPS, made the final presentation on the re-establishment of the Family Violence, Child Protection and Sexual Offences (FCS) units. Before August 2006 the FCS consisted of 66 units in all 9 provinces. The total personnel strength was 1100. During August 2006 the SAPS took a decision to migrate all FCS units to station level in order to bring the specialised service closer to the community and to provide a more effective service to the victims of sexual offences related crimes.

 

[Carol70]

So very true, I have a few questions, does he come from a well to do family,
and was his father a Doctor, is O. P. fluent in English, if he is set on Bail, where would he live, surely not back at his home, unless he hired Bodyguards
around the clock, till this dies down, anyone on the board from SA who have been giving us excellent information, have any ideas.
I will say this, he dresses very well each day in court, lovely pressed suit, very stylish shirts, and matching tie to go with his attire, and well groomed in general, how tall is he, as his upper body looks long.
Thanks!!

Oscar is very well do to in his own right, he is worth millions. I actually think he is from an Afrikaans family but is fluent in English. His uncle speaks with quite a heavy Afrikaans accent if I recall. If he is granted Bail, it will be with very strict restrictions, he will have to hand over his passport, he will more than likely have to report to his nearest police station numerous times a week...he will be free to stay where he likes as he is not a minor but he would have to decide on 1 address for the duration..ie: he won't be able to go to his home and decide a week later he would rather live with his father or move around etc..more than likely, I imagine he will go to the family home and not his own home. He will be free to continue his business activities here in SA but not naturally overseas. This is generalizing, however, this is not our usual run of the mill case so anything could happen with his bail conditions.

I also thought about his length but remember that the dock he stands in is elevated somewhat to the people who stand behind him but he is rather tall I think.

All I can think of now off the top of my head.

 

[Carol70]

A little bit of interesting info

https://mobile.twitter.com/carlpistorius

What does he mean about the prosecution lying?

 

[ontariolynn]

interesting choice - Domestic Violence Act Implementation

<snip> Major-General Vinesh Kumar Moonoo, Head: General Investigations, SAPS, made the final presentation on the re-establishment of the Family Violence, Child Protection and Sexual Offences (FCS) units. Before August 2006 the FCS consisted of 66 units in all 9 provinces. The total personnel strength was 1100. During August 2006 the SAPS took a decision to migrate all FCS units to station level in order to bring the specialised service closer to the community and to provide a more effective service to the victims of sexual offences related crimes.

Well it looks like they also are bringing out all THE GUNS, OP Defense Team has their work cut out, as I believe they are now after his lawyer for making
a fool for the entire world to see and read about, in regards to (1) of their own, it is a known fact that they stick together, well here in Canada they do.

I think this will go on for awhile yesterday, I thought it was cut and dry and that today he would be granted bail.

 

[Norwegian]

I've been in Sweden all day and just got home now. I have a lot of reading to do

I was shocked to turn on the news and hear that Botha is himself are charged with murder?

Wow. How can an official with a pending murder case still be working?

This case is getting more and more baffeling.

 

[ontariolynn]

Oscar is very well do to in his own right, he is worth millions. I actually think he is from an Afrikaans family but is fluent in English. His uncle speaks with quite a heavy Afrikaans accent if I recall. If he is granted Bail, it will be with very strict restrictions, he will have to hand over his passport, he will more than likely have to report to his nearest police station numerous times a week...he will be free to stay where he likes as he is not a minor but he would have to decide on 1 address for the duration..ie: he won't be able to go to his home and decide a week later he would rather live with his father or move around etc..more than likely, I imagine he will go to the family home and not his own home. He will be free to continue his business activities here in SA but not naturally overseas. This is generalizing, however, this is not our usual run of the mill case so anything could happen with his bail conditions.

I also thought about his length but remember that the dock he stands in is elevated somewhat to the people who stand behind him but he is rather tall I think.

All I can think of now off the top of my head.

Thank you very much, his height is not really important just wondering as he seemed to have a long body, very good looking also.
Well I guess he will be OK on the money front, he is only 26 correct?

 

[Inobu]

I don't get it, Nel sets it up but does not finish it off.

He should have said
The restaurant incident proves he can and will alter the description of an event to protect his image. The gun discharge was an unlawful act that was tampered with. What is the probability of him tampering and altering information concerning his own murder case.


15:45 - Nel on Oscar Pistorius version: Actions indicative of a man willing and ready to fire, to kill… He stormed the danger.

15:45 - Nel: Pistorius never woke Reeva up and asked her if she had heard an intruder.

15:44 - Nel: his version is so improbable that it can never be a reasonable possibility.

--------------------------

Nel on Oscar Pistorius version: Actions indicative of a man willing and ready to fire, to kill… He stormed the danger. without confirming that Reeva was in the process of calling the police. His statements narrates vulnerability but his actions reveals exceptional aggression with the intent to kill via 4 shots in a confined area.

Inobu

 

[SweetT]

from the latest diagram i've seen and from what we heard yesterday, the cricket bat was near the sinks at the br consistent with bashing in the door. nothing was made of a bashed in skull, so i'm guessing that was not true and if there was skull damage at all it would be consistent with a bullet.

he may not have known it was Reeva in the toilet, (my DH keeps saying but she didn't live there - who often did she stay over?) but he definitely was out to get whoever it was. if phone records/tweets/ipad activity/ whatever support the argument theory then the "witnesses" will carry more weight, but right now???

what was the state of the bedroom? whose phones were in the toilet? and had they been used? did she really go to use her phone? who would leave at 3am after an argument? was she getting ready to bail? (no pun intended) lots of ??s but the prosecutors better pull their socks up if there is a case to be made, they have fallen well short!

I have. ALso I am not sure where photos of the bathroom come from but I'm not the one publishing them..if the toilet was in the place other photos show then the officers statement makes no sense. Its all very fishy to me.

 

[Carol70]

Thank you very much, his height is not really important just wondering as he seemed to have a long body, very good looking also.
Well I guess he will be OK on the money front, he is only 26 correct?

Well, he will certainly have enough money to see his case through but I think after this, his career is over, it would be highly unlikely that he would get a sponsor etc but he is more than likely going to spend a few years behind bars...he wil be too old to be an athlete when he is released.

 

[SweetT]

This goes back to the argument about why did he wait until she locked herself behind a door to hurt her. Her actions are not indicative of someone who is being chased by a gun, running to the smallest room in the house with no place to hide, leaving your phone outside the room your running too.

Now, if you were to say they were having an argument and they were already in the bathroom (meaning he wasn't chasing her, but found her in the bathroom and the argument started), that's more believable.

wasnt it mentioned the bedroom door was locked...so perhaps the bathroom was her only escape.

 

[Inobu]

The bail issue statement is simply.


The states has concerns of his flight risk as his statements from his affidavit speaks only to his well being. His emergency calls were made to individuals that help and support him not the renown 911 services the would have helped Reeva. 911 is an emergency number known through out the world. It is design for a bystander to call and provide professional aid to any person or persons injured or in a life threatened situation. He did not make that call but chose to make personal calls

Simple as that as far as I see it.

Inobu

 

[Carol70]

The bail issue statement is simply.


The states has concerns of his flight risk as his statements from his affidavit speaks only to his well being. His emergency calls were made to individuals that help and support him not the renown 911 services the would have helped Reeva. 911 is an emergency number known through out the world. It is design for a bystander to call and provide professional aid to any person or persons injured or in a life threatened situation. He did not make that call but chose to make personal calls

Simple as that as far as I see it.

Inobu

I don't hold it against him for not calling the so called 911 number first...as I have stated elsewhere in this thread, everyone knows that they take their time to respond, hence him being told to rather drive her to the hospital himself by Netcare which is a prestigious private hospital.. I myself gave birth to my first child at home on my bed( not intentional) as the ambulance arrived an hour after my mother called them. That 911 argument will not hold for the defence and they will quickly shut it down. If I had an emergency even now, I wouldn't call them first.

 

[SweetT]

I don't hold it against him for not calling the so called 911 number first...as I have stated elsewhere in this thread, everyone knows that they take their time to respond, hence him being told to rather drive her to the hospital himself by Netcare which is a prestigious private hospital.. I myself gave birth to my first child at home on my bed( not intentional) as the ambulance arrived an hour after my mother called them. That 911 argument will not hold for the defence and they will quickly shut it down. If I had an emergency even now, I wouldn't call them first.

Maybe that all depends on what state/country/city you live in. Where I live I would call 911 as I know they would respond fast and I would not want to get pulled over driving frantically to the Hospital.

 

[cityslick]

The bail issue statement is simply.


The states has concerns of his flight risk as his statements from his affidavit speaks only to his well being. His emergency calls were made to individuals that help and support him not the renown 911 services the would have helped Reeva. 911 is an emergency number known through out the world. It is design for a bystander to call and provide professional aid to any person or persons injured or in a life threatened situation. He did not make that call but chose to make personal calls

Simple as that as far as I see it.

Inobu

911 response is not universal through out the world though. Heck, even in the US 911 isn't as reliable in all areas. I don't think his flight status should be based on simply that. It should be more based on if he has the means to flee the country and disappear.

 

[21merc7]

911 response is not universal through out the world though. Heck, even in the US 911 isn't as reliable in all areas. I don't think his flight status should be based on simply that. It should be more based on if he has the means to flee the country and disappear.

AND,

threaten or buy witnesses

 

[Inobu]

This goes back to the argument about why did he wait until she locked herself behind a door to hurt her. Her actions are not indicative of someone who is being chased by a gun, running to the smallest room in the house with no place to hide, leaving your phone outside the room your running too.

Now, if you were to say they were having an argument and they were already in the bathroom (meaning he wasn't chasing her, but found her in the bathroom and the argument started), that's more believable.

cityslick you are making assumption that he waited?

Her action are indicative to where women go during an argument or fight. They go the the bathroom for isolation from the aggressor. They feel threaten enough to see protection but not to the level where they need to make a 911 call. They know that that 911 call is the Highest level with the highest level of repercussions to the aggressor.

No one knows her actions. The only thing known is she was in the toilet room. The bullets went through the door and into her Head, elbow and hip and through her hand.

Her mobility is 4 to 6 times faster than his (without his legs). She could be in the toilet room with the door lock before he can make it around the corner.

The ballistic angles through the door prove that the gun was at an elevated
level. The information could refute the events in the affidavit. They should be able to reconstruct the body position in the toilet room based on the trajectory of the bullets.

OP moved the body to inhibit the investigation.

Inobu