General discussion thread #14

[SleuthMom]

I just read a link that Colomom put in the link section.

The family wants to request new analyses “in order to prove that someone who had access to the car put something inside in order to incriminate them”

Does that make any sense at all? IF they found hair or blood or body fluids in the hire car, how in the world would someone plant that type of evidence in the car? How? Where would they get it?

 

[SleuthMom]

Made for a good reason to be away from the table that night...IMHO.

Thanks for the info Colomom. So he left a 3 year old who was vomiting by HERSELF while he went dinning? Sounds like a lie to me. I don't buy it. I think he was out of the table MOST of the night because he was busy doing something.

 

[SleuthMom]

Also, can anyone refer me to some links where I can see interviews of the Mc Canns? I read a lot about their body language so I am interesting in seeing some. Thanks in advance.

 

[christine2448]

Also, can anyone refer me to some links where I can see interviews of the Mc Canns? I read a lot about their body language so I am interesting in seeing some. Thanks in advance.

Lots of videos here

http://news.sky.com/skynews/madeleine

More here

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6698737.stm

Yahoo full coverage

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/fc/madeleine-mccann.html

 

[colomom]

Thanks for the info Colomom. So he left a 3 year old who was vomiting by HERSELF while he went dinning? Sounds like a lie to me. I don't buy it. I think he was out of the table MOST of the night because he was busy doing something.

Some people have said that it may have been Maddie vomiting.....

Pure speculation, of course.

 

[BloodshotEye]

Here we go people...the arguidos are dividing into camps. One camp being K&G, and the other one is comprised of everyone else who had access to that car, and was present and accounted for on May 3. As I have said before, it is a very short list.

Colomom's link that SleuthMom is talking about, suggests to me that the evidence collected from the car, is so compelling - the McCanns must direct their effort/defense toward finding out who else had access to this car. Hello, K&G? Perhaps you should pay less attention to your media-relations hack, and more attention to the case.

As many of us here have posted; by properly vetting the evidence that points to the McCanns, we have the best chance of finding out what really happened. If it is not the McCanns, then K &G need to get on board and stop frickin' lying about events, stop refusing to answer certain "questions", etc. That is their only hope at finding out what happened. Their personal and professional reputation is crap at this point. Get over it. No point in lying/stonewalling/spinning, to try and save their sorry-@ss reputations. It merely impedes the investgation, and impedes the collection of evidence that may exclude them from the list of suspects.

 

[SleuthMom]

Thanks Christine for the links. Colomom, since I have read your posts and you seem very knowledgeable about the case, do you know if it was confirmed that O'Brien's daughter was so sick that night or it is just his word? Did the Police ever investigate him finding odd he was out of the table most of the night?

 

[christine2448]

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/pressass/20...6323e80_1.html


Also says,
Meanwhile, it was reported that Kate McCann's private diary documents her struggles to look after her "hysterical" children and reveals details about the night Madeleine went missing.


More Rumor

(Comes from article that says Social Workers are checking on twins)
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53423

 

[Smurf]

I cannot vouch for the French newspaper and I cannot vouch for the translation but:

"The liquid discovered in the trunk of Renault rented by McCann, twenty-five days after the disappearance of their daughter, was analyzed: the results indicate that Maddie would have swallowed “important” an amount of sleeping pills.


I have NEVER heard of a 3 year old child being able to swallow pills, my 12 year old still gets that deer in the headlights look if she needs to take an advil.

 

[harleysnana]

Does anyone know the age of O' Brien's daughter? And whether someone (besides him or his girlfriend) can account for their daughter being that sick that night?

I wanted to add some thoughts on O'Brien.

It's said that his daughter who is close to the same age as Maddy was sick...
It's said that he needed clean sheets because of the vomit on them...

I wonder if maybe he said it was his daughter that was sick when in fact
it was actually Maddy?
Maybe a cover for if they had found vomit on him or in his apartment
he could say..."my daughter was sick"

If Maddy was wrapped in this "sheet" and put in the trunk
that could also account for the evidence found in the trunk.

I'm not saying I don't think the McCanns have anything to do with this...
I think they do.. but I also wonder about Mr. O'Brien being involved.

 

[Betsy]

Children swallow all sorts of things they shouldn't, and it boggles the mind how or why they can do it, given the taste and smell. But if a child was told, say, here, swallow this 1/2 of a tablet, it's yummy, Mommy takes them all the time, it's like candy, etc....I can see a child doing that. Or maybe the parents dissolved the pill in water first?

Anyway, what if Maddie did do this, went to sleep, woke up for some reason, saw the bottle of "candy" on a high shelf, and climbed up to get it? Maybe the top wasn't screwed on all the way, who knows.

My point is--kids do this. That's why the poison hotline is in existence--children eat and drink tons of things they shouldn't.

I should say, some children, not all. My kids--they won't try a chicken nugget if it's the wrong shape.

 

[BloodshotEye]

I know what you mean about children and pills, Smurf.

However, if pills were mixed in a nice little fruit drink or afternoon tea, (think back to the "snack" that K&G said they gave Maddie, before putting the children down); I don't believe that would be a problem. If it would have been bitter, they merely had to make it sweet.

Additionally, there are a number of sedatives that can be prescribed in a liquid form, for adults who have trouble swallowing pills. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if these dang pharmD's start peddeling little sleeping "aid" drug strips, that dissolve on our tongue. Better living through chemistry...and all that.

 

[SleuthMom]

I have NEVER heard of a 3 year old child being able to swallow pills, my 12 year old still gets that deer in the headlights look if she needs to take an advil.

When my son was 3, and needed to take some meds I recall trying to mash it up so he can take it...but he just look at me like if I was mad or something, took the small pill with water and just took it! He has done it since then. Plus, isn't most meds nowdays come with childproof covers?

 

[colomom]

Also, can anyone refer me to some links where I can see interviews of the Mc Canns? I read a lot about their body language so I am interesting in seeing some. Thanks in advance.

One of my favorites:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=O5jtmkXXv58

Google body language/deception....see: ear tugging....

 

[colomom]

Thanks Christine for the links. Colomom, since I have read your posts and you seem very knowledgeable about the case, do you know if it was confirmed that O'Brien's daughter was so sick that night or it is just his word? Did the Police ever investigate him finding odd he was out of the table most of the night?

I believe it was just his (and Jane Tanner's) word. The PJ has not investigated R. O'B thoroughly, IMO. I do think that when they had the meeting with Robert Murat...the PJ was watching closely. And taking notes.

As I understand it also, the PJ want the Tapas 7 to return to Portugal for more questioning. I read that some have refused...not sure who....care to place a bet?

 

[colomom]

When my son was 3, and needed to take some meds I recall trying to mash it up so he can take it...but he just look at me like if I was mad or something, took the small pill with water and just took it! He has done it since then. Plus, isn't most meds nowdays come with childproof covers?

One thing I will throw out here for consideration...

I have found that alot gets lost in translation from language of origin to English. So, while the article does reference "pills" that might not be accurate. We will have to wait on that. I am more interested in finding out about toxicology on the hair...

 

[SleuthMom]

Colomom:

As I understand it also, the PJ want the Tapas 7 to return to Portugal for more questioning. I read that some have refused...not sure who....care to place a bet?

Sure. ALL of them. They are ALL in this silent pact therefore, if one goes down they ALL go down. In any case, I read they can interview them in Britain therefore they will not get away with it but I strongly feel the PJ should investigate O'Brien and girlfriend more.

 

[Smurf]

When my son was 3, and needed to take some meds I recall trying to mash it up so he can take it...but he just look at me like if I was mad or something, took the small pill with water and just took it! He has done it since then. Plus, isn't most meds nowdays come with childproof covers?

I remember sitting on what looked like a demon-posessed monster trying to get some liquid medicine in that moving target. I finally taught them to take a pill by practicing with M&M's but they still don't have that confidence to just toss it back like Dr. House does.

 

[JanetElaine]

Hi BSE,

I was able to find this reference which, unfortunately has a bad link. The quote also mentions Globo.com but that site is also entirely in Portuguese.

http://helpmadeleine.proboards79.co...rence&action=display&thread=1188632132&page=1 post #3

Quote:
Now the night before she went missing, on Wed night, there was a complaint to the Gen Mnger Mr Hill. Gerry went back to the apt to watch and take care of his unhappy and crying children, and in a link Kate said he was not at all happy about that. Mr Hill spoke to Gerry the next day and asked if there was a problem with leaving the children uncared for while they dined. Gerry said no, Mr Hill offered him a walkie talkie which Gerry refused.

oh - keraste, re the offer made by mr Hill: i have been backtracking for the source that said mrs. Batista (ocean club) made an offer of babysitter and it was turned down, here it is:

http://www.infobae.com/contenidos/33...dres-Madeleine (bad link)

"The Technical Services Director of the Ocean Club resort, Silvia Batista, affirmed that the same night on which Madeleine disappeared, she in person offered child-minding services "because the hotel is responsible for its clients' children, but they rejected that". Madeleine was seen for the last time on the 3rd of May when she was sleeping next to her siblings in a rented room in a hotel in Praia da Luz, in the south of Portugal. The parents of the little girl are being questioned for having left her alone in that room in order to go to eat with some friends.

According to the director of the hotel, "every month registries of robberies in the area are kept, and we therefore advise the service of a child-minder", but even knowing this, Maddie's parents did not accept it. Batista confirmed in an interview with the website Globo.com that the hotel has been working from the start with the Police to find the little girl. The director added that the room used by the McCann family was closed the first two months, then was opened for 15 days, but was then closed once again. Also, the director of the resort pointed out that in the area there are "many inquisitive people, but they do not disrupt the routine of the place.

"We did not bear the blame for the disappearance of the little girl, it couldn't be said whose fault it was, but certainly not ours", assured the director and indicated that "the parents of the girl that night were very unconcerned", and there was no reason they should not have requested the service of a child-minder.

So do you think they have turned down TWO offers for babysitting? Despite the burglary warnings and the (alledged) complaints etc?

ETA do you have a link for mr. hill's comments?

Also the report that referenced the "They've taken her" quote comes from:

One source: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/article2948182.ece

"according to Gerry McCann's sister Trish Cameron, "They've taken her! They've taken her!"

I have seen it reported many times that Trish Cameron is the source of that statement.

Hope this helps...I wish I could nail down some better links.

So. What if an employee of the resort got so annoyed with these tourists leaving their kids alone at night, and after this particular pair gets a warning they still leave them alone, and the employee decides to teach everyone a lesson and gets Madeleine?

I don't have time to spin the whole story around that right now but what if they ended up blackmailing them (the sedating thing would come out, they'd loose their jobs, their kids) so they kept quiet, then somewhere something went wrong and they got Madeleine back dead?

Hey, I've done far-fetched before.

 

[BloodshotEye]

JanetElain: I don't think that is farfetched at all. Condering how frightened a staff person might be, if Maddie suffered the overdose while in their care. Not sure I would go with the blackmail angle. And now, we have to consider the forensic evidence in the car.
I was clicking back and forth between a few threads, so I am not sure where to post this comment. Guess here is as good a place.

Background: The toxicology report for bodily fluid(s)
I am pondering the reports of the analytical results of the body fluid, collected from the car. The conclusion of that analysis (if we can are to believe the news source) that an large quantity of sedative, was likely to be the cause of death.

First Dose
I am wondering if Kate administered a quantity of sedative to Maddie and the twins, and they all went down for the night.

Checking on the Children during the Party
Then we hear that their was a lot of "traffic" back and forth, to check on the children. I am visualizing that, in a haphazard way of checking on the children, "someone" (K, G, O'Brien, etc.), noticed that Maddie was starting to awaken, and be whiney.

Second Dose Administered to Maddie
With the sedative in the nightstand drawer (if reports can be believed), one of these people gives Maddie another dose. Recall that there was a party going on, with a few glasses of wine had by all/most. So, perhaps - one of these three people, kind of lost track of the total dosage had been given to Maddie. One of these three possibilities:

1. If it was Kate: perhaps she was thinking, No way in hell, am I going to have a repeat performance of Mrs. Fenn bitching to the resort staff; I will not have the resort staff coming in here, telling me the children belong in the creche.

2. If it was the husband: he might have been thinking, "Kate probably did not want to administer a strong enough dose; But I am not going through this crying and carrying on. I shall administer a small second dose.

3. O'Brien checks on the children: Maddie is up and wimpering, and he decides to administer a very small dose. Perhaps he was instructed to do so, by K or G.

Maddie Suffers an Overdose
My personal biase is that Maddie has an underlying health issue (apnea, or other more complicate issue) that makes her more at risk, when/if sedated.
...So now, we have a setting, where Maddie has been given an overdose.
As the evening wears on, one of these people, makes the final check on Maddie, and sees that she is dead. Absolutely no respiration. No pulse. They may have even tried to administer CPR on the floor. This person quickly grabs a sheet or pillow case, and quickly stows her in a suitcase or a plastic bin with a good snap-lid (as suggested by Smurf).

Given this scenario, it is equally plausible to me, that one of these people hid Maddie, and the others did not know...yet.

1. If K & G, gave Maddie the first dose, and O'Brien gave her the second dose, neither of them would - in a moment of panic - be able to determine who gave the lethal dose. So, they stick together.

Kate Makes the "Discovery"
I'm thinking that one of two things are at play here. The child truely was removed from the room, by G or O'. And she really was convinced, that they (resort staff) was agast that she left them (the children) again. And removed Maddie. Of course, this begs the question, wouldn't the resort staff also remove the twins? Of course. But perhaps in the moment, Kate did not think this through. She simply launched into an accusatory mode against the resort staff, and cried out "They've taken her" and "We've let her down" (if reports are to be believed).

But G and/or O', know. Maybe there is an agreement. A code-of-silence, as some here have suggested very early on. Why? Because each one of them may be culpable, to some degree.

God help the person who provided the sedative. Murat, if it was you, who provided a little "recreational drug" to O' and T, you had better lay it down fast.