General Discussion Thread #2

[DriveBy]

I know the defense will make a huge issue about contaminating the crime scene.

But didn't the police allow Oscar's brother, the attorney and a locksmith to walk through the crime scene before Botha even arrived? I'm curious if that is SOP for the SA police!

.

I feel bad for Botha! But glad he got a new job.

But you know this it is not OJ Ver. 2. We know for certain who killed her, he told us he did. So we are not looking for shoe print impressions in the blood or something, hair and fibers and all of that. I mean what could he contaminate with uncovered shoes that covered shoes would not do they same thing to?

 

[liverpoollou]

Here's the thing, Reeva did not die in the bathroom, she died downstairs. Dead people don't bleed because after the heart stops pumping the blood it is trapped in the body. But living people with a bunch of gunshot wounds do bleed. The crime scene is described as very bloody in the bathroom, the hallway upstairs, and downstairs around Reeva's body. So she lived and bled for about 30 minutes before finally dying downstairs.


Even OP stated that she was breathing and making gurgling sounds downstairs while his family were there at the house.

So fifth bullet to finish her off may be the wrong question.

Well you live and learn. I didn't know that about dead people not bleeding. I am now beginning to think his story is true. After all, you would think that if it was deliberate, he would want to make sure she was dead. I know OSCAR said she was still alive when he took her downstairs........but I thought he was telling porkie pies, in order to prove he didn't want her dead but was desperate to save her. I really don't know what to think now.....maybe it was some ghastly accident and he is telling the truth?

 

[Carol70]

I know the defense will make a huge issue about contaminating the crime scene.

But didn't the police allow Oscar's brother, the attorney and a locksmith to walk through the crime scene before Botha even arrived? I'm curious if that is SOP for the SA police!

.

Definitely not. They may have access to other parts of the house but nowhere near the actual crime scene. I need to go back and check when it was stated that they we actually there...although Botha only got to the scene after considerable time. He wasn't a responding officer, but the IO so would have been called to the scene after the fact.

 

[Carol70]

"You are known by the company you keep?"

Haha, true! However, dont think OP and Mark were friends..they had mutual aquaintences by the looks of things.

 

[Carol70]

I feel bad for Botha! But glad he got a new job.

But you know this it is not OJ Ver. 2. We know for certain who killed her, he told us he did. So we are not looking for shoe print impressions in the blood or something, hair and fibers and all of that. I mean what could he contaminate with uncovered shoes that covered shoes would not do they same thing to?

I feel sorry for him too..he was way over his head with this one. I still can't fathom how the pros put him on the stand without going over his notes with him first...stupid move IMO.

 

[DriveBy]

Well you live and learn. I didn't know that about dead people not bleeding. I am now beginning to think his story is true. After all, you would think that if it was deliberate, he would want to make sure she was dead. I know OSCAR said she was still alive when he took her downstairs........but I thought he was telling porkie pies, in order to prove he didn't want her dead but was desperate to save her. I really don't know what to think now.....maybe it was some ghastly accident and he is telling the truth?

Oh man! Stop drinking so much wine. We need to talk. I don't want to write an essay on this, but geez.

Here are a few of the reasons (I have more) why I believe he murdered her:

1. She's dead.
2. He pumped three bullets in to her, miraculously hitting her in pitch darkness while she was in a closet toilet with a solid door obscuring her exact location.
4. OP lied about where he was when he fired. He was not outside the bathroom at the entrance, he was in the "ideal" location by the sink, 1.5 meters from Reeva, firing on the diagonal and hit her with amazing accuracy.
5. OP lied about not having on his legs and feeling scared and vulnerable. The bullet trajectory was downward.

 

[Carol70]

Well you live and learn. I didn't know that about dead people not bleeding. I am now beginning to think his story is true. After all, you would think that if it was deliberate, he would want to make sure she was dead. I know OSCAR said she was still alive when he took her downstairs........but I thought he was telling porkie pies, in order to prove he didn't want her dead but was desperate to save her. I really don't know what to think now.....maybe it was some ghastly accident and he is telling the truth?

Haha, this happens to me all the time. I am on the fence but fall off regularly. I wish there was more solid evidence to go by but am actually getting to a stage where I think the pros have nothing.

I still think we are looking at a suspended sentence at the best for OP, cash payment to Reeva family in lieu of a civil trial and a few other small restrictions. I will be very surprised if he sits a jail term.

 

[DriveBy]

The detectives and forensic team would be able to quickly determine the position of the shooter using the entrance / exit points of the shots that were fired in the door. They push dowels through the gunshot holes at the scene and viola the shooter was standing in front of the sink firing on the diagonal, downward. They will use other tools and measurements as well, but they would do this first at the crime scene.

Here is an example of a bullet trajectory kit:

https://www.lynnpeavey.com/product_info.php?products_id=1083

And while this is not the best image representation to use to demonstrate, you will get the idea:

http://www.thisplaceisastranger.com/files/reg/gunzone_policecar.jpg

 

[Carol70]

The detectives and forensic team would be able to quickly determine the position of the shooter using the entrance / exit points of the shots that were fired in the door. They push dowels through the gunshot holes at the scene and viola the shooter was standing in front of the sink firing on the diagonal, downward. They will use other tools and measurements as well, but they would do this first at the crime scene.

Here is an example of a bullet trajectory kit:

https://www.lynnpeavey.com/product_info.php?products_id=1083

And while this is not the best image representation to use to demonstrate, you will get the idea:

http://www.thisplaceisastranger.com/files/reg/gunzone_policecar.jpg

Yes but in one of the docs linked a few pages back, I saw a forensic specialist state that the pros would have a hard time proving that OP didn't have his legs on...the guy stated that Op could also have raised his hand above his head to shoot if he was feeling vunerable on his stumps.i think the guy actually got down on his knees and showed how easy it was. Anyhow, I still maintain that OP would not have stated in his affidavit that his legs were off if he couldn't prove it.

 

[DriveBy]

Yes but in one of the docs linked a few pages back, I saw a forensic specialist state that the pros would have a hard time proving that OP didn't have his legs on...the guy stated that Op could also have raised his hand above his head to shoot if he was feeling vunerable on his stumps.i think the guy actually got down on his knees and showed how easy it was. Anyhow, I still maintain that OP would not have stated in his affidavit that his legs were off if he couldn't prove it.

I saw that too, the two attorneys taking opposite views are on Fox all of the time and they are both very good, very watchable.

The thing for me about "the representation that OP "could" have raised his hand above his head and fired downwards" is just pushing it too far to give an explanation for the facts. You follow me?

1. OP had to have training to get his gun permit.
2. He bragged on Twitter about his accuracy / marksmanship.
3. So he knows how to properly handle a pistol, how to hold it, how to point it, how to sight his target, and how to fire it.
4. He loves to shoot, and he frequently went to the firing range to relax when he could not sleep.
5. He was building an arsenal of fantastic weapons, it was an obsession to his young mind.

To believe that the Marksman /Gun Enthusiast that I described above, when he was under threat to his life, would throw out everything that he had learned and practiced and fire a weapon over his head, without seeing or knowing where his target was behind that door, and not sighting / aiming at what he wants to shoot, is just too far a stretch for me.

 

[DriveBy]

Yes but in one of the docs linked a few pages back, I saw a forensic specialist state that the pros would have a hard time proving that OP didn't have his legs on...the guy stated that Op could also have raised his hand above his head to shoot if he was feeling vunerable on his stumps.i think the guy actually got down on his knees and showed how easy it was. Anyhow, I still maintain that OP would not have stated in his affidavit that his legs were off if he couldn't prove it.

Sorry, missed that point.

The door was confiscated by Forensics and OP's team is still complaining that they haven't had access to it. I believe that his people / specialists had a go at the crime scene without benefit of the door being there, and I believe that OP likes to play the Vulnerable and Scared Cards whenever he gets in trouble - ask me that later and I will find the links for you. So he lied about the "no legs" thing to the cops at the scene, and had to lie to his attorneys as well. I know they have to be furious with him about that (among other things) right now!

 

[Carol70]

I saw that too, the two attorneys taking opposite views are on Fox all of the time and they are both very good, very watchable.

The thing for me about "the representation that OP "could" have raised his hand above his head and fired downwards" is just pushing it too far to give an explanation for the facts. You follow me?

1. OP had to have training to get his gun permit.
2. He bragged on Twitter about his accuracy / marksmanship.
3. So he knows how to properly handle a pistol, how to hold it, how to point it, how to sight his target, and how to fire it.
4. He loves to shoot, and he frequently went to the firing range to relax when he could not sleep.
5. He was building an arsenal of fantastic weapons, it was an obsession to his young mind.

To believe that the Marksman /Gun Enthusiast that I described above, when he was under threat to his life, would throw out everything that he had learned and practiced and fire a weapon over his head, without seeing or knowing where his target was behind that door, and not sighting / aiming at what he wants to shoot, is just too far a stretch for me.

Yep, good points however, lets not forget that he temporarily forgot all he learned a few weeks ago when he allowed a gun to go off in a crowded restaurant by accident,almost blowing his friends foot off, and his life was by far not in danger.

 

[Patticake]

Definitely not. They may have access to other parts of the house but nowhere near the actual crime scene. I need to go back and check when it was stated that they we actually there...although Botha only got to the scene after considerable time. He wasn't a responding officer, but the IO so would have been called to the scene after the fact.

Carol,

Indeed you are correct as it was in the kitchen:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/oscar-pistorius-arrives-2nd-day-bail-hearing-article-1.1268575

Botha testified that shortly after he arrived at the crime scene, Pistorius' brother Carl and a lawyer arrived at the house with a locksmith. They wanted to open a safe in the kitchen. "They said they were looking for documents and a memory stick with account numbers of offshore accounts. They did find...what they were looking for."

http://www.dailymaverick.co.za/arti...ate-vs-pistorius-not-quite-a-watertight-case/

He said, Pistorius's brother Carl and his lawyer had engaged the services of a locksmith to force open a safe in Pistorius's kitchen. That safe, Botha alleged, contained details of offshore accounts in Pistorius's name. "[The lawyer and brother] said they were looking for documents and a memory stick with details of offshore accounts," he said.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/LIVE-UPDATES-Pistorius-in-court-day-2-20130220

10:22 - Botha: "[Pistorius]'s lawyer came to the house with a locksmith to open a safe in the kitchen. It had a USB stick with details of offshore accounts."

10:22 - Botha: We asked to have the safes open. There was a specific safe in the kitchen but no key, so they brought a locksmith to open it.

.

 

[Carol70]

Carol,

Indeed you are correct as it was in the kitchen:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/oscar-pistorius-arrives-2nd-day-bail-hearing-article-1.1268575



http://www.dailymaverick.co.za/arti...ate-vs-pistorius-not-quite-a-watertight-case/



http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/LIVE-UPDATES-Pistorius-in-court-day-2-20130220



.

So they arrived after Botha and were not already there. I wonder what they were really looking for?? It seems odd to me that they were worried about offshore accounts so soon after the shooting when clearly the family has ALOT of money kwim? Very strange.

Btw, latest YOU magazine is on the stands with an exclusive interview with Carl saying how he has always looked out for his little brother. I paged through it but no new info so didn't buy it. I'm waiting for them to get their hands on crime scene pics or something, they always manage that somehow.

 

[Lola]

Column: Oscar Pistorius of old is gone for good

 

[DriveBy]

Yep, good points however, lets not forget that he temporarily forgot all he learned a few weeks ago when he allowed a gun to go off in a crowded restaurant by accident,almost blowing his friends foot off, and his life was by far not in danger.

Yay!!! I found OP's firearm instructor's home training video!!!! Absolutely crazy to think he wound do this. Enjoy:

How NOT to shoot a gun - YouTube

 

[shane13]

I love Debra Patta, she is an awesome Investigative journalist however, I'm annoyed she opted to interview Mark Batchelor. The man is a and of dubious character himself and should be taken with a pinch of salt.

have links on him?

 

[shane13]

The links you post have been great!

I watched the program last night. I was afraid to see him speak about the incident w/ Ms. Taylor because of your comment. But actually I didn't see him as a very good liar. He is attractive and smiles constantly which makes him likable and believable, why not trust him - he looks good and he's smiling at you while he talks. But he also shows nervous tells in his facial expressions and eye contact or lack of eye contact (IMO).

The most obvious telling of a fabrication to me was he said that Ms. Taylor was drunk, he asked her to leave, and as he escorted her out of the door she was hit by a piece of the door after she kicked it loose (he spent lots of time describing that part of the story), and he seemed to end the story there; he was just doing the right thing for his party guests and himself and she was now gone. But then "he said he was on his way to call the police himself" to report Ms. Taylor to the Police for (I guess) breaking his door or something, but as he went to report her crime to the police they were already outside of his house - coming for him and he was arrested. Hope you follow that he fabricated the "he was on his way to call the police himself" part to ADD credibility to his version of what happened, and project that he was the Victim of a crime that night, not Ms. Taylor.

You may be missing my point entirely.

1. I go by Ms, Taylor's version.
2. The police arresting the #2 icon in the country.
3. Him dropping suit now.
4. His well-known rage and ludicrous RS allibi/coverup.

So, as with RS case, I believe him to be lying there, and is brilliant at it, as are many who've had good coaching.

 

[DriveBy]

You may be missing my point entirely.

1. I go by Ms, Taylor's version.
2. The police arresting the #2 icon in the country.
3. Him dropping suit now.
4. His well-known rage and ludicrous RS allibi/coverup.

So, as with RS case, I believe him to be lting there, and is brilliant at it, as are many who've had good coaching.

Sorry, I did not mean to sidestep your point(s), that was just one thing on my mind to share.

And just a quick reference to Ms. Taylor, this is her blog: http://theglamgreengirl.blogspot.com/

Like Reeva, blonde, beautiful, and importantly one of those rare special people who care so much about others that they find a way to add value to others lives.

For OP to sue her and basically use the court system to harass her for all of those years, knowing she did not have the approx. $200K US dollars to pay him, amounts to him continuing his domestic violence towards her, IMO.

Written quickly because I have to go, sorry.

 

[Estelle]

I think you have misread this. The housemate is not Martyn Rooney, but a former unnamed schoolmate of Pistorius.



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...72091/Oscar-Pistorius-murder-charge-live.html

Sounds as though Mr Rooney visited OP during his stay in SA, may even have stayed over, but he is not the housemate referred to.

Thanks for the correction. I wonder who that unnamed schoolmate is and where he was that night. I hope they have interviewed him.

Anyway, I got the feeling that they might not have spent time alone at home much.