General Discussion Thread #2

[lexycat]

http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_c4#/video/world/2013/03/06/ac-dnt-griffin-pistorius-dark-side.cnn

I don't think this one has been posted before but in this video from CNN they say that now that OP is out of jail his bail conditions have changed from what they had been announced to be. Now OP will not be required to check in with the police twice a week, instead the police will go to check on him only "occasionally".

I'm really astonished at the special treatment OP continues to get.

Maybe the police are concerned for OP's own safety, and wanting to avoid media/crowds gathering if OP shows up at police station....just a thought.

 

[natsound]

Were there only 3 bullet wounds (hand, head and arm which was broken)? Am I missing a 4th one?

I'm not so sure? about hearing a body slump, especially if he was firing the gun in rapid succession.

There were three bullet wounds, four shots in the door.

 

[whiterum]

The Pistorius dynasty. They own and control many companies in several types of business.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/128145494/The-Pistorius-dynasty

My goodness his dad is 95 and that's the man who shot himself by accident.

To save himself embarrassment, he could have said he got up around 3am to use the bathroom. Unbeknownst to him his wife was in the toilet. He bent over the sink to calm his brow, when his wife mistaking him for a fat cheeked intruder with a long nose , shot him in the testicles from behind the toilet door.

 

[Patticake]

My goodness his dad is 95 and that's the man who shot himself by accident.

-snip-

Oh, at that same link. A nice 3-D view of the bedroom / wardrobe / bath area of the crime scene.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/126918194/What-police-found-in-the-house

.

 

[shane13]

My goodness his dad is 95 and that's the man who shot himself by accident.

To save himself embarrassment, he could have said he got up around 3am to use the bathroom. Unbeknownst to him his wife was in the toilet. He bent over the sink to calm his brow, when his wife mistaking him for a fat cheeked intruder with a long nose , shot him in the testicles from behind the toilet door.

I believe that's his 95 year old grandad.

Dad is only 48 IIRC; but appreciate the testicular humor.

 

[Estelle]

Saw that.
Facilitates all kinds of possibilities, should OP and team be into that.

I was pondering the 17 minute gap. Much time for OP alone, or with others, to conjure something up. I'd bet they considered saying someone else did it, but the great security there precluded this. Else he might have shot himself to say an intruder did it all.

Even though there should be massive evidence against him, a single judge will rule, not a jury, so anything is possible. Think about the bail granting again. At start of the hearing they said this is rarely granted in #6 Murder. And here he didn't deny killing her. But he got bail from the judge. Now the supposed rules of his bail are being eased or dropped.

Well the minipoll I diid here had most of us say he will get a light sentence.

Another scenario they could have considered is for someone to hide the body so it would never be found even if it was not OP hiding the body. Otherwise, why was his car engine running? I realise the excuse they gave was he was taking her to the hospital as that was what the hospital told him to do which needs to be double checked. So that covered his tracks of removing the body from the crime scene, contaminating evidence and covering for why car engine was on. But IMO Reeva was already dead before being carried down the stairs and forensics might be able to prove time of death.

In this scenario, because the shots were heard by neighbours who reported it to the security guard, the guard would have arrived before OP could get away. Perpetrating a crime at that time in the morning too often gives the murderer a head start as people have to be woken up, put their clothes on and drive there half awake.

A re-enactment might be able to prove this.

 

[Estelle]

There were three bullet wounds, four shots in the door.

But there were early reports of a shot to the hip but not through the door. This has not necessarily been discounted as might have been held back by Prosecution.

 

[shane13]

Another scenario they could have considered is for someone to hide the body so it would never be found even if it was not OP hiding the body. Otherwise, why was his car engine running? I realise the excuse they gave was he was taking her to the hospital as that was what the hospital told him to do which needs to be double checked. So that covered his tracks of removing the body from the crime scene, contaminating evidence and covering for why car engine was on. But IMO Reeva was already dead before being carried down the stairs and forensics might be able to prove time of death.

But because the shots were heard by neighbours who reported it to the security guard, the guard arrived before PO could get away. Perpetrating a crime at that time in the morning too often gives the murderer a head start as people have to be woken up, put their clothes on and drive there half awake.

A re-enactment might be able to prove this.

I missed the engine running aspect. I wonder if that is still claimed as some say many of the things first cited were retracted.

See here. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/oscar-pistorius-kept-steroids-home-1717061

But OP or others with him could have been about to go with that. Removing the body seems difficult to carry off--unless high authorities in the land were with him. After all she was known to be there, blood all over the place and with Luminol spray and such very hard to remove all evidence. What could they have said--she was kidnapped? Again if high authorities were working with them anything is possible. Say they took a drive and were ambushed etc. Actually once I think about it they could claim anything happened on the road. The key again is forensic examination of his house, and I think prof. cleanup--like with those sisters--takes some time, and I wonder if they ever get rid of all traces of blood?

But I go with my statement that after the 17 minute gap, every action and word was part of the coverup. We only know the final coverup, which could have been different if security or whoever got there first had come just a few minutes later. OTOH, if they got there before the end of the 17 minute gap, I would wager, there would be no coverup tenable.

How long after the 17 minute gap, did authorities arrive?

 

[shane13]

Carol:

Do they really say "TIA" there, as in the movies?

 

[NocturnalLady]

Maybe the police are concerned for OP's own safety, and wanting to avoid media/crowds gathering if OP shows up at police station....just a thought.

I agree that avoiding the media is a decent reason to avoid having OP check in a police station. (However Casey Anthony managed to check in with her parole officer without ever getting "caught" so I'm sure there is SOME arrangement that could be made.) My concern however is that the police will only check on OP occasionally. Putting the burden on the state has ensured that OP is getting off lightly.

 

[Estelle]

My goodness his dad is 95 and that's the man who shot himself by accident.

To save himself embarrassment, he could have said he got up around 3am to use the bathroom. Unbeknownst to him his wife was in the toilet. He bent over the sink to calm his brow, when his wife mistaking him for a fat cheeked intruder with a long nose , shot him in the testicles from behind the toilet door.

That is not correct. OP's grandfather, Hendrick, is 95yo. Henke is his father who had three children and is now 48yo. Is this correct as he looks much older than 48yo? It appears that Sheila, OP's mother was 7 years older than Henke, the father.

He was the one who shot his testicles by accident! Henke must have only been 20yo when his wife of italian ancestry, Sheila (8 May 1958 – 6 March 2002) at the age of 27yo, fell pregnant with Carl, their first child as Carl is 27yo now! They had three children and Henke left her when OP was 7yo. So when Henke was only 28yo, he was already separated from Sheila when she was 35yo if not divorced. OP was born on 22 November 1986.

So OP's mother was left with 8yo Carl, 7yo OP - a double amputee who needed special attention, and a 5yo daughter, Aimee! Quite a handful for a mother to cope with in her 30s even if the family had money. She was probably always too busy to discipline them or maybe she had nannies who failed to discipline them which is often the case.

Also, often having a child who has special needs puts a big strain on the marriage, the child gets all the attention and the husband feels neglected. I wonder if either parent ever married again?

Also, if the father abandoned them early, the boys did not have a strong and present male role model. Perhaps that is why Arnold, the uncle, seems to be more like OP's father than his own father and he could have taken on the father role especially if he did not have children himself or at least after their mother died when OP was 15yo. That is over 10 years ago now. Neither OP nor Aimee have graduated from university yet.Henke Pistorius works at a dolomite mine, and his wife Sheila worked as a school guidance counselor.

http://www.hlntv.com/article/2013/02/26/pistorious-family-no-stranger-crisis

Oscar Pistorius - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Estelle]

I missed the engine running aspect. I wonder if that is still claimed as some say many of the things first cited were retracted.

See here. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/oscar-pistorius-kept-steroids-home-1717061

But OP or others with him could have been about to go with that. Removing the body seems difficult to carry off--unless high authorities in the land were with him. After all she was known to be there, blood all over the place and with Luminol spray and such very hard to remove all evidence. What could they have said--she was kidnapped? Again if high authorities were working with them anything is possible. Say they took a drive and were ambushed etc. Actually once I think about it they could claim anything happened on the road. The key again is forensic examination of his house, and I think prof. cleanup--like with those sisters--takes some time, and I wonder if they ever get rid of all traces of blood?

But I go with my statement that after the 17 minute gap, every action and word was part of the coverup. We only know the final coverup, which could have been different if security or whoever got there first had come just a few minutes later. OTOH, if they got there before the end of the 17 minute gap, I would wager, there would be no coverup tenable.

How long after the 17 minute gap, did authorities arrive?

I don't think we now how soon after the 17 minute gap, authorities arrived but it could have been in some early reports. We would have to go back and check that. A timeline would be great.

I agree with you that everything done after the 17 minute time gap was about covering up.

Psychopaths usually try to hide the body if they can and hope that by the time it is ever found, the body has decomposed enough for evidence not to be found. They could have made up some story to cover that.

Pity the security guard took so long to get there. Or if he did get there early, was he bribed to keep quiet. There could be some history of that having been done in the past too so OP could have known that the security guard was corruptible as I think Botha was due to past history.

 

[Estelle]

As Lou predicted earlier, I have found out why they did not plan to be together on 14th February.

As reported on day of her death.


16.20 On the day of her death, Reeva Steenkamp was due to give a speech to Sandown High School in which she revealed she had been in an abusive relationship while at university. The Evening Standard has the full text, but here is an excerpt from her notes:

4. I broke my back towards the end of varsity. Learnt mobility again and made a massive life decision with regards to my career. I will elaborate on this part of my journey.

5. I was in an abusive relationship at the same time (his mother used to abuse him) and all together these factors encouraged my move to Jozi.

[...]

7. I lost a lot of self worth during my last year in PE before I moved to Jozi and it took some serious soul searching to remind myself of my value in this world.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...72091/Oscar-Pistorius-murder-charge-live.html

I had remembered earlier that this talk was going to be held on 15th but it was to be given on 14th - hence why they celebrated earlier.

My prediction now is that Reeva might have wanted to go home earlier that night to get a good night's sleep before she gave that talk. She might have talked about volence and women in SA with OP. When and if he got drunk (which appears very likely), Reeva may have seen a different side of OP, gone off to the bedroom to call for help, he locked her in there so she ran to the bathroom, he came after her with his gun threatening to kill her if she called anyone. She dropped the phones and ran into the toilet or was carried in there by OP.

OP might have reminded Reeva of her past abusive boyfriend and at last saw what Cecil Myers and Hougaard had been warning her about. Reeva must have been romantically in love with OP previously where one does not choose to see the warts and all.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...72091/Oscar-Pistorius-murder-charge-live.html

 

[Estelle]

15 February 2013

The Valentine’s Day speech Pistorius girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp never got the chance to make

Reeva Steenkamp was due to make a heartfelt Valentine’s Day speech to schoolchildren in Johannesburg on the day she died.

The magazine model, 30, was to admit that she had previously been in an abusive relationship.

Miss Steenkamp was due to reveal that it had been this relationship — and the resultant “loss of self worth” —which prompted her to move to Johannesburg and rebuild her life.

She was due to caution the secondary school students that “no matter how many people say that they “love” you, if you do not love your person then you will never step outside of the physical you.

“The physical you can only do so much if your mental you is lost inside of all the confusion.”

Below are the rough notes Miss Steenkamp made for the speech at Sandown High School, a co-educational government school. They are reproduced exactly as she wrote them.

“PE” stands for Port Elizabeth, the town where Miss Steenkamp grew up. “Jozi” is Johannesburg.

Who received flowers/chocolates/cards/messages/tweets/etc today (February 14) for valentines day?

Tell them what I received, make a small joke about this. And then tell them that receiving those things is very special but not receiving anything doesn’t define you as a person or make you less valued!!!

1. I was raised on a small farm just outside of Cape Town. In a way I was blessed and privileged to be away from the pressures of city life and I grew up to appreciate the simpler things above the superficial.

2. I will chat about life on the farm, having no money but being blessed with amazing parents who never allowed me to be aware of my circumstances. Some “looking back now” points somewhere after this would fit in.

3. After moving to PE and deciding to study Law despite our financial situation, I worked hard to be acknowledged as one of the top 15% academics at university so that my studies could be 80% covered by bursaries and I worked to pay off the rest.

4. I broke my back towards the end of varsity. Learnt mobility again and made a massive life decision with regards to my career. I will elaborate on this part of my journey.

5. I was in an abusive relationship at the same time (his mother used to abuse him) and all together these factors encouraged my move to Jozi.

6. Despite my height disadvantage and the difficulty in general of breaking into the modeling industry, I put my head down and worked hard towards my dream.

7. I lost a lot of self worth during my last year in PE before I moved to Jozi and it took some serious soul searching to remind myself of my value in this world.

8. Being loved by others, although an amazing feeling to have the appreciation of others, does not define your place in the world.

9. Accept who you are. Acknowledge your absolute “CAN DOS” in life and work on your “MAYBES” so that you can be a better person for the ultimate upliftment of those around you.

10. No matter how many people say that they “love” you, if you do not love your person then you will never step outside of the physical you. The physical you can only do so much if your mental you is lost inside of all the confusion.

11. Be brave. Always see the positive. Make your voice heard. Your physical seen. And the presence of your mental you felt. Its that culmination of your person that will leave a legacy and uplift.

12. I hope that you have the most amazing Valentines Day and that you are spoilt with love and roses and chocolates. Go home and tell your parents, siblings, neighbours that they are appreciated.

You will go to bed with a happy heart and open mind for the future.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crim...amp-never-got-the-chance-to-make-8496896.html

So very sad and ironic.

 

[Estelle]

More about Oscar Pistorius: Not the Boy I knew:

"The dark side to Oscar was always unsettling, simply because I had never experienced it. I had only read about it. I knew that he had developed a reputation for being arrogant and aloof, although never to me.

I heard he was quick to anger. I heard the stories about him threatening to shoot a former national footballer who had crossed his path. I knew about his reckless motorboat accident, which left his face torn to shreds. I knew that he had spent the night in jail, accused of assaulting a woman at a party at his house. The case was subsequently dropped, but it left a mark on his reputation."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...74684/Oscar-Pistorius-Not-the-boy-I-knew.html

 

[Estelle]

15.04 According to that New York Times magazine piece, Pistorius also has a house-mate:

Pistorius lives in the house with a friend from high school, an engineer who moonlights as a mixed-martial-arts fighter.

14.58 Martyn Rooney, the Great Britain Olympic 400m star, has told The Sun that he had dinner with Oscar Pistorius and Reeva Steenkamp last Saturday.

He said he was "in bits" at the news of her death and that his thoughts and prayers "go out to the families and friends of those involved".

Pistorius tweeted on Sunday that he had watched a movie, but that his house was "way too quiet without @martynrooney! homealoneblues".

Pity he was not there that night!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...72091/Oscar-Pistorius-murder-charge-live.html

British Olympic sprinter may be key witness in Oscar Pistorius' murder trial

BRITISH sprinter Martyn Rooney could be a key witness in the murder trial of Blade Runner Oscar Pistorius.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/37...e-key-witness-in-Oscar-Pistorius-murder-trial

 

[Estelle]

14.36 From our Southern Africa Correspondent Aislinn Laing: "Police have confirmed that Mr Pistorius was visited by a psychologist yesterday, both for evidence-gathering and to assess his mental state. He is being held at Brooklyn police station near Pretoria but not under any special security measures. His main reason for remaining there over the weekend rather than being remanded in prison is his celebrity status".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...72091/Oscar-Pistorius-murder-charge-live.html

From what I have read about Oscar Pistorius, I think the author of the following comments would call him a "MONOBEING". Here are only a few of his comments about monbeings:

If you are an empathic Christian living in America (where the percentage of monobeings is higher than most countries), you have been or are now or probably will be, unknowingly, in a close relationship with a monobeing. Most likely, you will know that you have been emotionally and physically drained, confused, and even devastated---but you will not understand why. I strongly recommend that you carefully read this entire article.

Monobeings have infiltrated all strata of society, including corporate executives (and lower-level employees), law enforcement, military, politicians and other government workers including those in the highest positions, medical doctors, nurses and other healthcare providers, psychologists and psychiatrists, lawyers, Hollywood and TV actors, newscasters and talk-show hosts, financial institutions, Wall Street jobs, academia, pastors and other church leaders, and perhaps your next-door neighbor, or your husband or wife or son or daughter or father or mother.

Monobeings get pleasure by physically and/or mentally abusing any human being, and believe they are far superior to all humans. Monobeings know that the conscience and empathy of humans are "severe hindrances" that deter evil deeds, and are to be used by the monobeing to exploit, manipulate and control humans for their own benefit and pleasure.

One of the main manipulative techniques employed by monobeings is evoking pity from a target. They are adept at causing the innocent human prey to feel guilty or responsible for the evil behavior of the predatory monobeing.

Monobeings are not psychotic, nor are they considered to be insane by the U.S. judicial system. They are rational and are fully aware of their motives, predatory nature and evil behavior.

Monobeings are not human beings with a personality disorder. Monobeings are non-human entities. Their behavior is consistent with the essence of what they are---a non-human predacious beast. That is, they do exactly what they were designed by God to do, just like any predator, such as a rattlesnake or great white shark. Likewise, demons do not have a personality disorder, their behavior and motives are consistent with the essence of what they are.

Monobeings know that they do not have a personality disorder. Many, if not most (especially the more intelligent ones) are aware that they are not human.

Monobeings are not psychotic, and they are rational thinkers. They know they are apex predators. (An apex predator is a creature that, as an adult has no natural predators. Apex predators are top-level predators with no predators of their own, like great white sharks, polar bears and African lions.)

Monobeings do not have a conscience. It is impossible for a human being to comprehend the mind of a monobeing. The way monobeings view themselves in contrast to humans is fundamentally different from the essential attributes that make one a "human." They lack empathy, remorse for any wrongdoing, compassion and love.

The vast majority of monobeings never kill humans. (Technically and literally, only a human's body can be killed, because a human is a spirit inside their body. "Do not fear those who can kill the body and after that can do nothing, but fear Him who can destroy both body and soul in hell.") However, all of them are very capable of killing any human body (including their children or spouse or parents) if it suited their situation and they would not lose a moment's sleep even if they killed all of them at one time.

To a monobeing, when they kill a human (body), it is not murder. To them it is no more murder to "kill" a human than it is murder for a great white shark to kill a mackerel. The difference is that great white sharks kill to eat and survive, and monobeings kill for pleasure or to prevent being exposed as a monobeing or as a non-human. However, some monobeings do, literally, eat their human prey's body that they killed. But their motive is not to obtain food to survive.

Because of society's general beliefs in right and wrong and ethical human behavior and morality, dictated primarily by the conscience of normal human beings, monobeings know the difference between right and wrong, but they simply do not care if they violate society's standards---or the clear commands of the Bible.

Monobeings do not view themselves as being a part of human society, although they do a fantastic job of blending in, and relatively few monobeings are ever exposed.

By the time monobeings reach the age of puberty, or shortly thereafter, they realize that there is something fundamentally different about the way they think, their desires, their motives, and so forth.

Early on, they realize that they can easily manipulate and control humans because humans have emotions, empathy, compassion, guilt, remorse and love that monobeings do not have. They view emotions and other attributes of humans as hindrances and signs of weakness. Monobeings have nothing but contempt for all humans, and feel far superior to us in every way.

Monobeings do not fear God. Indeed, some monobeings view themselves as some kind of god, or at least, a demigod who is not bound by the laws, rules and ethics of human beings.

Monobeings believe human beings are here for them to use like any material thing that they use, and they have never felt guilty or remorseful about anything they have ever said or done.

Monobeings are experts at hiding their evil motives and machinations and are the most evil creatures on the planet. (Monobeings vary in the degree of their evil behavior.)

http://www.bethelministries.com/psychopaths.htm

 

[Estelle]

More about OP's father shooting himself:

13.26 Beeld, the South African newspaper that broke the news of the shooting, now claims that Oscar Pistorius' father had an accident involving a gun and a glamorous woman in the mid-1970s.

As his girlfriend at the time, Anneline Kriel, a former Miss World, looked on, Henke Pistorius allegedly shot himself in the groin while cleaning his pistol.

The newspaper's source, an unnamed university friend, says Mr Pistorius senior was only lightly injured. However, the incident did raise questions: "Who puts their gun between their legs as they clean it?" he asked.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...72091/Oscar-Pistorius-murder-charge-live.html

If this incident occurred about 1975, that was 38years ago. So why is the father supposedly only 48yo! I think they have got his age wrong. He looks 68yo to me. Might have to edit the age I used in a previous post when I worked out he would have been 20yo when Carl was born!

Age quoted is here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/128145494/The-Pistorius-dynasty

http://www.beeld.com/Suid-Afrika/Nuus/Sy-pa-skiet-op-teer-plek-20130214

 

[liverpoollou]

I tried to register Thanks on a couple of postings but keep getting the message that I AM NOT

 

[liverpoollou]

So very sad and ironic.

I wonder if she had her notes with her at Oscars. Maybe the "yoga" was Reeva rehearsing her speech. Could have made him angry that she wasn't dedicating the time to him.

I have been trying to send posts and registering thanks but I am having a bit of trouble cos I keep getting told I am not allowed access. It worked yesterday, so I don't know what I am doing wrong. I am going to keep practising so if you get an inappropriate post from me take no notice.