General discussion thread No. 15

[docwho3]

. . .But her interview was seized on by detectives as valuable evidence in the profile they are building of her.
Officers are seeking medical records to build up a case that she was incapable of controlling four-year-old Madeleine - and that the strain could have provoked her into violence while on holiday in Praia da Luz. . .

This one scenario actually makes slightly more sense to me than an accidental overdose of meds coming from a trained anesthetist.

To be fair and before I proceed: The parents may yet be innocent of perpetrating a crime against their daughter. At this point I am only looking at possibilities and not making accusations.

Whenever I look at a possible scenario for the parents to have caused the death of Madeleine anything to do with meds sounds like a remote possibilty unless one thinks that a sedated person might fall off a bed and break her neck since heavily sedated people often cannot even get out of a bed without falling and getting injured and it is one mistake that I have actually seen medical pros make with patients (leaving them alone on a bed or even a reclining chair/bed while heavily sedated after a procedure.)

Although the violence as a cause is at least something that sounds a bit more possible to me, the violence scenario is not something that seems highly likely to me at this point in the case but then I do not know about the mother's psych records or her past behavior with Madeleine that might not be public knowledge.

 

[CaliKid]

"Madeleine cried 18 hours a day"

"Kate McCann has told of how Madeleine cried for 18 hours a day as a baby and demanded constant attention when her twin brother and sister were born.

In an interview with a Portuguese magazine, the 39-year-old GP is reported to have discussed her daughter suffering from colic and how, at 20 months old, she reacted to the birth of twins Sean and Amelie.
Mrs McCann's intention seems to have been to illustrate how she and Madeleine bonded so closely during those early years, when mother and daughter were rarely separated.

~snip~

So I really wonder why they said she was just "colic", sounds to me like she had other issues.

If this is true, Madeleine sounds like a very insecure little girl which, at her age, would cause her to do a lot of acting out.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

I believe that this is Pinkhammer's opinion (correct me if I am wrong Pinkhammer). It is quite obvious that she could not know these things unless she was there.

From: http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1674510&postcount=1

"Everyone is entitled to their opinion and can post it on these threads."

"If you dont agree with a post please do not drag it all over the threads just dont read that posters comments if you do not like them."

On this forum tolerance should be our motto

This is the type of thing that the moderators and admin are here for. Please don't take it upon yourselves to set policy.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

I love this post. The McCanns are manipulative, horrid people and bad parents, and so are their wine-swigging friends. How can you care for young children the MORNING AFTER these late evening drunkard parties? These Tapas Docs must have known an especially poweful cure for hangovers.

I guess it depends on one's definition of "care for." This obviously wasn't a first-time thing for the McCanns.

 

[SleuthMom]

, the violence scenario is not something that seems highly likely to me at this point in the case but then I do not know about the mother's psych records or her past behavior with Madeleine that might not be public knowledge.

Well..I imagine an overwhelmed mom of three kids (3 and under) whose probably one of them (Madeleine) had special needs and I am telling you it is madness! I had only one with special needs and it was like having three kids all at once. It took me 6 years to decide to be pregnant again. Just to mention how stressful it was.

Now having said, I am NOT justifying at all ANY possible mistreatment of this child from her parents but just pointing out that probably Kate Mc Cann just could NOT take it and LOST control and hit little Madeleine badly, to the point of her death.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Wow and you don't even know the McCann's right?
How do you know they are manipulative? How do you know they are horrid? Are bad parents?
You/we don't know how many of the adults drank wine the night Maddie disappeared! Who said they had drunkard parties???? If you don't know the McCann's personally and if you were not with them while they vacationed, how can you make sure assumptions?

We're here to discuss this case. There was a report that a great many bottles of wine was consumed that night. More than most of us would even consider

Does this poster "KNOW" certain things? No, of course not. However, they did leave a three-year old alone to care for her two-year old twin siblings. I wouldn't be going out on a limb stating that their parenting skills need some serious improvements. This wasn't the first time they did this.

 

[docwho3]

Well..I imagine an overwhelmed mom of three kids (3 and under) whose probably one of them (Madeleine) had special needs and I am telling you it is madness! I had only one with special needs and it was like having three kids all at once. It took me 6 years to decide to be pregnant again. Just to mention how stressful it was.

Now having said, I am NOT justifying at all ANY possible mistreatment of this child from her parents but just pointing out that probably Kate Mc Cann just could NOT take it and LOST control and hit little Madeleine badly, to the point of her death.

In this case I can see the possibility of violence but not "hitting" because the blood evidence would have been there to be found and would have been much easier to have been found than the tiny spots we have heard about but I could see an angry person suddenly grabbing up a pillow and smothering a noisy child, especially if Madeleine had bult up a tolerance to sedatives and had been able to throw a fit at an inopportune time.

Again:
To be fair: The parents may yet be innocent of perpetrating a crime against their daughter. At this point I am only looking at possibilities and not making accusations.

 

[Schmerty_Jones]

I think its fair to say that all parents of young children have experienced exasperation & "end of the rope" feelings ,especially if they do not have some relief with supplemental child care (nannies,babysitters or relatives)
I think the McCanns in planning for their large family & close birthdays should have considered this. Still they were not teenage parents & had some education in care of the young,the old.,or the ill. I cannot believe that they would not know the dangers of leaving chidren unsupervised or in not taking care to provide relief from the stress of difficult , sick or special needs children.
Something is not right about this situation, and I don't think its Portugal or the PJ.:waitasec:

 

[BethInAK]

"Madeleine cried 18 hours a day"

"Kate McCann has told of how Madeleine cried for 18 hours a day as a baby and demanded constant attention when her twin brother and sister were born.


In an interview with a Portuguese magazine, the 39-year-old GP is reported to have discussed her daughter suffering from colic and how, at 20 months old, she reacted to the birth of twins Sean and Amelie.

Well, thats to be EXPECTED. A 20 month old child is a baby herself and would probably have a terrible time adjusting to one new baby, let alone two. A 20 months old expects all the attention.

My child is 27 months and many of the women I was pregnant with already have another child. MANY had difficulties with the older chld when they brought the new baby home -some hittng, some biting, lots and lots of general acting out for attention. It seems normal to me that a toddler used to the undivided attention of mom and dad might have an issue with being uprooted by twins.

 

[BethInAK]

I guess it depends on one's definition of "care for." This obviously wasn't a first-time thing for the McCanns.

I expect that the McCanns' cared for the children in the AM by dropping them off at the creche.

 

[BethInAK]

I can't help but think this is not nearly as complicated as it is made out to be. Maddie could have been abducted. These kids were allegedly left alone at approximately the same time every single night, it was allegedly not a big secret, and alot of the staff at the resort allegedly did not approve, so it isn't like a pedophile would have to work real hard to plot out her abduction. Perv

you have a good point.
At the same time, if the Tapas Bar party is to be believed the children were checked about every 20 minutes. It would be a risky endeavour if that IS the case.

I wonder why they checked the children so often but two nights previous had dinner OFF SITE - several blocks away. If you felt going several blocks away while the kids slept was safe, why wouldnt' you feel comfortable not checking on them for a longer period?

 

[SleuthMom]

In this case I can see the possibility of violence but not "hitting" because the blood evidence would have been there to be found and would have been much easier to have been found than the tiny spots we have heard about but I could see an angry person suddenly grabbing up a pillow and smothering a noisy child, especially if Madeleine had bult up a tolerance to sedatives and had been able to throw a fit at an inopportune time.

That's a pretty good theory to think about.

 

[SleuthMom]

I wonder why they checked the children so often but two nights previous had dinner OFF SITE - several blocks away. If you felt going several blocks away while the kids slept was safe, why wouldnt' you feel comfortable not checking on them for a longer period?

Was this confirmed? (dining off site) I recall the Mc Canns saying those were lies, that they only ate at the Tapas restaurant that week.

 

[BethInAK]

Was this confirmed? (dining off site) I recall the Mc Canns saying those were lies, that they only ate at the Tapas restaurant that week.

I never saw a denial of that particular claim!! Willing to accept all friendly amendments!

 

[SleuthMom]

I never saw a denial of that particular claim!! Willing to accept all friendly amendments!

Maybe someone will find the link, right now I am dealing with "all day morning sickness"

BUT the restaurant you are speaking about is the same one that a guy claimed saw the Mc Canns?

 

[BethInAK]

Maybe someone will find the link, right now I am dealing with "all day morning sickness"

BUT the restaurant you are speaking about is the same one that a guy claimed saw the Mc Canns?

ginger chew candy. its the only thing that got me through the second trimester.

And the offsite restaurant was the night that mrs fenn supposedly heard madeleine crying for daddy for 90 minutes and complained to the resort staff. I assumed this was confirmed and not in any way disputed as I've never seen any contradictory information.

 

[Texana]

Docwho3, that is a very interesting thought about the possibility of a fatal injury while under sedation. I wondered about the possibility of some kind of injury along those lines. It seems to me to be more probably than a violent injury from a parent, but again, as you noted, we don't have the actual psych history of either one.

The McCanns did say that Madeleine slept between the twins, which is a little odd to me, because usually you put the oldest child on the outside edge. If Madeleine stood up on the bed she could have been unsteady enough to fall off, possibly?

The only way an overdose could have occurred IMO would have been some kind of undiagnosed allergy or heart condition, etc. As you said, trained anesthesiologists would not make a mistake with just overloading the medicine. They would be much more sensitive to the drug/weight ratios.

That's the kind of thing you see in daycare operators who give too much cold medicine to an infant.

 

[BloodshotEye]

I'm glad you brought up the issue of Maddie, being placed between the twins (according to Kate).

So, am I to understand, she uses these toddler twins as "bumper pillows", one on either side of Maddie? What is with this woman?

 

[txsvicki]

I don't know how they ever got 3 little kids in the same bed to sleep in the first place. It's hard enough when more than one child is even in the same room.

 

[CaliKid]

I think its fair to say that all parents of young children have experienced exasperation & "end of the rope" feelings ,especially if they do not have some relief with supplemental child care (nannies,babysitters or relatives)
I think the McCanns in planning for their large family & close birthdays should have considered this. Still they were not teenage parents & had some education in care of the young,the old.,or the ill. I cannot believe that they would not know the dangers of leaving chidren unsupervised or in not taking care to provide relief from the stress of difficult , sick or special needs children.
Something is not right about this situation, and I don't think its Portugal or the PJ.:waitasec:

Well, I'm a little confused. I thought the twins were closer to 18 months old than two, but if they were born when Madeleine was 20 months old, they were almost 28 months old when she disappeared.

This means that Kate became pregnant when Madeleine was only 11 months old. For having such a supposedly difficult child already, it sounds like emotional suicide.

I have never met a toddler who didn't act out when a younger sibling was born.