General discussion thread No. 15

[Jdee]

I don't know that it's valid to compare pictures because they're so subjective. You could take a picture of me today where I'd look pretty good, but in a few hours you might snap one that makes me look like death warmed over - angles, lighting, serendipity of the pose caught - all these affect how a photo looks.

That said, I DO agree with you that Kate often looks quite fit and fine in her pics. Hair nicely coiffed, cute clothes, ribbons in her hair, jewelfy etc...
Looking that good doesn't mean that she's guilty of killing of her daughter but it is sometimes a little eerie to look at.

After my third child was stillborn, I was devastated. I don't think i combed my hair for two weeks. I went around looking like a zombie. I had two living children to care for and that gave me a reason to get up out of bed in the mornings, though even that act was a struggle.

I remember thinking that grief is like a very hard, nearly impossible job that you have to get up and face every day. Like walking across the bottom of the ocean with lead weights tied to each foot.

I can't imagine what it would be like to find my child missing - especially at such a very young age. I sincerely doubt I'd be able to get up and style my hair, put on adorable clothes and then go smile for the photo-ops. Rather, I think you'd see me dissolving into sobs all day/ every day. Heaven knows, I did that when my son was born and died. To this day (seventeen years later), I can't look at the photos taken of him or think about his perfect beauty for very long without tears coming to my eyes.

Teacher your post made me cry... Sending you warm thoughts...:blowkiss:

 

[Guruinu2]

Has anyone been following the Brit forums. Interesting:

http://forums.mirror.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=13681


Note first post by sieve from today - be patient it takes a bit to load.

Very interesting Forum, thanks for this!

 

[Texana]

Teacher...my heart goes out to you. We lost a nephew 40 days after birth.
Hugs, I know that pain must have been immeasurable and at times as you said the loss is still so aching.

Hugs (()))

 

[jacobean]

Has anyone been following the Brit forums. Interesting:

http://forums.mirror.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=13681


Note first post by sieve from today - be patient it takes a bit to load.

I checked this out - there was nothing on the 10 o' clock news tonight....

 

[KOOL LOOK]

I think again, being doctors factored heavily into the willingness of others in the group to help.

As doctors, they are well acquainted either personally or by general anecdote with stories of doctors who made good judgement calls but were pilloried for the decisions later when parents died or suffered traumatic after effects, etc. They have to live daily with sometimes making split second decisions with impartial information.

My FIL suffered a mild heart attack about 13 years ago. When he was taken to the hospital, he was administered a dose of the TPA drug (I think it's a blood thinner) to alleviate the effects of the drug. However, for a small percentage of people with stroke history or a predisposition to stroke, a slight difference in medication dosage can trigger a catastrophic stroke. FIL had never had a stroke, but his mother had.

My FIL went from one day being set to be released to the next afternoon in surgery for a catastrophic stroke that left him severely brain-injured and physically impaired.

Somewhere a doctor has to live with the results of the dosage he prescribed. (we confirmed this with a cardiologist relative after all this happened.) I'm sure all doctors at some point and in varying degrees, come in contact with that aspect of being a physician--being unfairly at times blamed for decisions or even fairly blamed, whatever.

So I believe that the McCanns friends would be more sympathetic to helping cover up a "mistake" that resulted in the death of their child. They would see it as the McCanns suffering needlessly for what was a mistake in judgement and an accident. Why should they lose their other children if the authorities decided they were negligent? Why should they be faced with losing the reputations, careers, and possibly medical licenses? Any overdose for a doctor's child would be splattered across the tabloids. "Dr. Mum Doses Tot to Death."

That's why sometimes Kate looks so grief-stricken and despairing, she really is mourning her child. Other times she is able to talk to herself about how her child is now in a better place and would want the rest of the family to be happy. It's why she can say with such certainty, "Maddie knows we love her" when asked what she would say to her child.

http://news.sky.com/skynews/video/vi...-1279448,.html

Absolutely brillant incite. Way to go. You are right. Doctors are accustomed to death by drugs being administered. That's an everyday part of their lives. Unlike us, we would be devastated. This in itself, makes alot of common sense, is truthful, and doesn't take a rocket scientist to agree.

Very good point. A point needed desperately in making sense here of this case. Way to go. This thought does not need to get lost. We need to start a thread for such ideas, suggestions, facts, evidence and so forth that we're figuring out could and does and is relevant that hasn't been brought to light yet.

There are just some things we as people can surmise to be a fact without it being written in concrete for us by someone in an official capacity.

A thread named somethign to the effect:

Sleuthers Ideas not to be lost in the scheme of things. I hope I got my point out correctly in the essence and point I'm trying to make. Some ideas are just worth keeping up with and not lost. This is one of them.

 

[colomom]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/janice_turner/article2456672.ece

Face it: we need the McCanns to be guilty

 

[colomom]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/li...article_id=481886&in_page_id=1770&ito=newsnow

Judge to call Kate McCann back to Portugal

 

[SleuthMom]

Colomom, if that last link you posted is accurate...it is really depressing! Basically if they do not find a body or the Mc Canns confess (which will never happen) nothing can be done about it no matter the DNA evidence.

 

[Elphaba]

...if that last link you posted is accurate...it is really depressing!

Tabloid reporting is rampant in England... they come a dime a dozen... or I should say 10pence a dozen. I love England, even love reading the tabloids sometimes, but you have to take the tabloids there with a grain of salt. Daily Mail is, I think, the oldest tabloid in that country...

 

[Texana]

Thanks, Kool look. :blowkiss:

I really feel the fact that they are both doctors and the other members of the group as well, makes for unique circumstances.

However, Brefie gets to throw fresh tomatoes at me if I turn out to be wrong.

 

[SleuthMom]

Elphaba, thanks for that info. I remain hopeful justice will be served for little Angel Madeleine.

 

[Elphaba]

Elphaba, thanks for that info. I remain hopeful justice will be served for little Angel Madeleine.

Same here... justice for Madeleine!

 

[CaliKid]

I know this is not a "religious" forum, but I want to ask all sleuthers to offer up a prayer to whatever god they believe in (or good thoughts for Maddie if you don't believe) that she will be found right away.

If she is alive, ask that the kidnapper will make a mistake or Madeleine returned to her family. If she is dead, that her body is discovered. Wherever she is, in whatever state, she needs to go home. She needs justice.

 

[AfterMidnight]

Colomom, if that last link you posted is accurate...it is really depressing! Basically if they do not find a body or the Mc Canns confess (which will never happen) nothing can be done about it no matter the DNA evidence.

Why is it depressing that the McCanns can't be hung without PROOF of their guilt?

 

[AfterMidnight]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/janice_turner/article2456672.ece

Face it: we need the McCanns to be guilty

After reading the article I agree with the title if not all the conclusions drawn in it. I believe some people need the McCanns to be guilty because it makes them feel better about themselves. I further believe all those howling for the blood of the McCanns need vindication for their own sins using the McCanns as scapegoats. Blaming, defaming, and pointing fingers at the McCanns does not make the finger-pointers better people or better parents - but it does say a lot about those doing the pointing.

 

[Taximom]

When would the McCann's have been on a boat?
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=296318
Maddie's body 'dumped in the sea'
Saturday Sep 15 15:00 AEST
Portuguese police believe Madeleine McCann's body was dumped at sea from a British-owned yacht, according to newspaper reports.
This latest theory contends that the body of four-year-old Madeleine was thrown into the ocean in a weighted sack, The Sun reported today. (more at link)

 

[philamena]

omg that is absurd! Is every newspaper in the UK a rag mag?

 

[CaliKid]

When would the McCann's have been on a boat?
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=296318
Maddie's body 'dumped in the sea'
Saturday Sep 15 15:00 AEST
Portuguese police believe Madeleine McCann's body was dumped at sea from a British-owned yacht, according to newspaper reports.
This latest theory contends that the body of four-year-old Madeleine was thrown into the ocean in a weighted sack, The Sun reported today. (more at link)

This makes me wonder about that yacht that had been in the harbor for two years and left the night Madeleine disappeared.

 

[Taximom]

I'm sorry, I don't know which sites are considered "rag mags" or not.

 

[Carpe Pacem]

This is from today's San Diego Union-Tribune, in reference to parents who caused the death of their baby by giving him Benadryl and Unisom to get him to sleep. Both have medical backgrounds, and face huge repercussions (17 years to life in prison) if convicted. Tragic. It brings home to me the reality of parents doing this sort of thing. (I do apologize if I've posted this in the wrong thread.)

Friday, Sept. 14, 2007

Parents to be tried in death of infant son

Baby was given adult medications

By Dana Littlefield
STAFF WRITER

September 14, 2007

DOWNTOWN SAN DIEGO – While visiting relatives in San Diego last year, a Washington couple woke one morning and discovered their baby boy's limbs had turned blue.



Advertisement He had stopped breathing.
Police officers were called to a Talmadge apartment, where they found the child on the floor. The boy's father was kneeling over the infant, police said, trying to revive him.

Despite the father's efforts, 6-month-old Thomas Boettger Jr. died Oct. 25, 2006. Medical experts determined that the boy had suffered acute intoxication from over-the-counter medications, an antihistamine and a sleeping aid.

Now the child's parents, Lorrie Jean Boettger, 38, and Thomas Michael Boettger Sr., 39, face charges of murder and child abuse. The couple were arrested in Shelton, Wash., and extradited to San Diego in March.

At the end of a four-day hearing in San Diego Superior Court, Judge Roger Krauel determined yesterday that prosecutors presented enough evidence for the Boettgers to stand trial. If convicted, they could receive a sentence of 15 years to life in prison.

According to testimony at the hearing, Thomas Boettger told a police officer that he had given the baby medication the night before because he was fussy.

“He told me that the baby had been colicky and not sleeping well,” Officer Christopher Luth testified, adding that Boettger said the baby suffered from acid reflux.

“He had told me that he had crushed the pills up and given them to the baby orally,” Luth said.

Investigators found packets of diphenhydramine and doxylamine – known by the brand names Benadryl and Unisom – in the bathroom of the apartment. A baby bottle and a syringe were found in a nearby bedroom where paramedics had tended to the baby.

Lorrie Boettger told an investigator in a telephone interview that she and her husband had given over-the-counter medications to their baby regularly to help him sleep, according to testimony from a San Diego police detective.

Deputy District Attorney Matthew Greco said the Boettgers may not have intended to kill their son but showed a “conscious disregard for human life” by giving him adult medications when they knew the potential danger.

Greco noted that the couple had experience in health-related fields. Thomas Boettger worked as a volunteer firefighter and emergency medical technician, and Lorrie Boettger worked as a midwife.

“Here we have two people who are involved intimately in the preservation of life,” the prosecutor said.

Defense lawyers argued there is little evidence, if any, that the couple committed a crime.

Merle Schneidewind, who represents Thomas Boettger, contended that it's still unclear whether the medications caused the child's death. He said medical experts don't know whether the drugs found in the baby's blood reached toxic levels.

Defense lawyer Elizabeth Comeau, who is representing Lorrie Boettger, said the Boettgers had researched the drugs on the Internet and reduced the dosages by cutting pills in half and diluting them with water.

“There is no conscious disregard by them actually taking the time to reduce the level,” Comeau said.



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Dana Littlefield: (619) 542-4590; [email protected]