George Zimmerman /Trayvon Martin General Discussion #14 Friday July 12

[PaintingAnemone]

Even if it was recoil, it would have cut him. IMO, not just broken his nose.

Also, given the angle since TM was on top and shot in the chest, GZ wonuln't have had the gun in front of his face.

Again, JMO

If it did cut him, it could be that's what caused the cut on the bridge of his nose. There's a cut there, and then blood coming from an abrasion on the tip of his nose, like he rubbed it against the concrete in some way. In this picture, look at the small cut at the bridge of his nose, and the small abrasion at the tip.
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02222/face_2222832b.jpg

And then compare that with where the blood is coming from on his nose in this picture.
http://www.kcci.com/image/view/-/17647260/highRes/1/-/78qcmj/-/120412-New-Zimmerman-Bloody-Photo.jpg

Is there even any blood coming from the nostrils, or is it all from the tip of the nose? I can't tell. Anyway, he does have a cut there. I just find it incredibly hard to believe that anyone could put his hands on that, smothering a person, but not smearing it around or getting any on his hands.

 

[JudyBolton]

I think using the photos was a brilliant idea. There have been so many witnesses and this will help the jurors keep them straight. A picture is worth 1,000 words. imo

 

[Badlands]

You don't need to sustain any injuries to be in fear of your life. Zero.

I've lost count how many times this has been posted today. It's in the statute.

You also can't just take someone's word that they had reasonable fear for their life. Otherwise, nobody would ever be convicted of murder.

 

[Jill-in-NV]

The contention that the defense doesn't have to prove anything is false. GZ admits that he shot and called Trayvon Martin. He has to prove that it was self-defense or he's negligent in a homicide.

Simply not true. The defense does not have to prove anything! Nothing at all. The State has the entire burden. The state MUST prove beyond a reasonable doubt the GZ did NOT act in Self Defense, and also that he acted in accordance with 2nd Degree Murder or Manslaughter.

IMO

 

[ShadyLady]

TM didn't have any injuries.

Exactly...except the one gun shot wound that probably saved Zimmerman's life.

IMO

 

[lisasalinger]

Are you part of the neighborhood watch in a neighborhood that has experienced a rash of burglaries?

Lol, most certainly no I am not neighborhood watch.

As I mentioned, food for thought... how many times have men in our lives gone to investigate something that seems suspicious. Maybe you don't have that personal experience, but a guy going outside to investigate is not such a hideous concept.

I do not find it so completely abnormal that George got out of his car that night. Was it good judgement? IMO, no it was not. Is it bizarre or hateful behavior? IMO, no it was not.

Just trying to get people to think outside the box.

IMO

 

[Mahouston69]

Even if it was recoil, it would have cut him. IMO, not just broken his nose.

Also, given the angle since TM was on top and shot in the chest, GZ wonuln't have had the gun in front of his face.

Again, JMO

He could have shot, the gun recoils.

hard and slams any part of the gun into his face. Not unlikely. Very possible. Explains tons of evidence of no DNA, no skin under nails, injuries but none on Trayvons hands.

Recoil

 

[rose222]

JMO

O'Mara puts me to sleep. He's jumping all over the place. I'm a little relieved and praying those Mom's stick up for Trayvon and think 'what if it were their son'?

I'm praying for those moms who think about what if their son was being attacked the way Zimmerman was and a lot of them are sticking up for him.

 

[marlap]

There is no evidence that TM was afraid.
HE was home. He had 4 mins to get in the door lock it and be safe. He says he is AT his daddy's house. yet He was still out there and spoke to GZ first. AS per state witness RJ.

GZ lost him as per nen call and TM to RJ.

THere is nothing to suggest that TM was afraid. He called GZ names. Not names that lead to fear.

There is also no evidence that GZ did not threaten TM...he was following and questioning him...a complete stranger

There is no evidence that GZ was not afraid....in fact he was the one with the gun.

Fact in evidence.

 

[bellaalex]

That female witness didn't see that until after the shot. I believe it's up for debate when she actually saw it though.

Was she the same person who heard 3 gunshots too?

 

[Karmady]

I prefer your so-called "wild west" to the other option of not being able to defend myself. MOO :twocents::twocents::twocents::twocents:

yep. just cower in your house/car and pray someone gets there in time. And whatever you do, don't go out anywhere where you won't even have the time or place to cower while waiting. that's the message this case sends. jmo

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Great comparison with the body props. MOO.

 

[doubt]

I missed that. Definitely diminishes the cop wannabe, power hungry theories. Although the security vehicle may have helped the situation and identified to TM immediately who GZ was and why he was driving around. The outcome may have been different.

missed that, too. but if true, i disagree that it diminishes his cop wannabe mind-set. a security truck is not a police vehicle. if GZ had accepted the vehicle, he wouldn't have been able to make up his own rules and get away with it unquestioned.

MOO

 

[cityslick]

The contention that the defense doesn't have to prove anything is false. GZ admits that he shot and called Trayvon Martin. He has to prove that it was self-defense or he's negligent in a homicide.

This is false. This is not a SYG trial. Look it up, the burden is on the state.

 

[Perthgirl62]

TM didn't have any injuries.

That proves nothing. That could just prove that GZ chose the wrong person to confront.

 

[magnolia]

What if I attack my neighbor, they end up overpowering me and straddling me so I shoot them? Do I have every right to defend myself?

You attack your neighbor.

The neighbor overpowers and straddles you--not using deadly force

Straddles you and starts pounding your head into the concrete--neighbor is using deadly force--you are within your rights to defend yourself and shoot

IMO

 

[Overuled]

I just tuned in to the trial and I notice that O'Mara is not screaming and yelling at the jury. Much more professional in my opinion.

Even Juan didn't scream during his closing.

imo

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I just can't believe Zimmerman was in fear of his life. That's my problem with accepting self-defense, and that for me is beyond a reasonable doubt. The bumps could have partly the shape of his head and there was still no bruising (interesting he has grown his hair now!), head wounds are vascualar so they bleed easily and yes he had a broken nose but that's it. He had no other bruises or injuries. That just can't constitute someone being in fear of his life.

Maybe in some ways my thinking is leftover from the JA case. However yes her case for self-defense was ridiculous, we (almost) all know that. And yes Zimmerman had *some* injuries but that's it....

I can't buy the self-defense and that's beyond a reasonable doubt for me which is why I think Zimmerman has to be guilty of something. Zimmerman was out to find Trayvon - he wasn't going to let this one get away IMO.

Btw, MOM's argument is better than the Bernie's IMO. Bernie was just too aggressive. I want Mantei to do rebuttal.

In any event, RIP Trayvon.

AGAIN, It matters not what he injuries are. He only has to be in reasonable fear of great bodily injury or death.

It has to be based in law. Not emotion.

 

[PaperDoll]

Did MOM just say when he brought out the paperdolls of TM and GZ that it doesn't have to be accurate? I think the paperdolls should be exact size and height of both of them.

 

[sorrell skye]

:seeya: Hi Sorrell ! Thanks for this info from Sheaffer -- he knows his stuff !

IMO . MOO . JMO ...

Hi, Cutie! :seeya: Good to see ya here!

I like Bill Sheaffer, too. Even though he's a defense attorney, I find him to be reasoned, logical, calm, and neutral in his commentary. I've learned a lot by listening to him. I also appreciate the fact that he never yells like the talking heads elsewhere. Thank Goodness for WFTV.