George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General discussion #2

[Hatfield]

nope this is what he said the night of the shooting

"“I don’t know if I pushed him off me [or] he fell off me, either way I got on top of him and I pushed his arms apart,” Zimmerman said as he demonstrated how he spread Trayvon’s arms away from his body. He told the officer that he didn’t remember how he got on top of his victim and continued with his version of events. “But I got on his back and moved his arms apart because when he was repeatedly hitting me in the face and the head,” Zimmerman said, “I thought he had something in his hands. So, I moved his hands apart.” Trayvon, he said, was face down. Again, he says the neighbor with the flashlight came out, he asked that person to help him restrain Trayvon. The police arrived perhaps less than a minute later and he stood up, holstered his weapon and put his hands up."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...zimmerman-trips-over-trayvons-arms-and-hands/

he said he didn't know, but that he did get n TM back and spread his arms, but the pic b4 PD arrived shows TM arms under neath the body

I saw this re-enactment interview and heard GZ with my own ears, and so based on this interview only, we know at some point GZ is admitting to being on top of TM. Just from this part above, it is not clear if it is before or after the shot.

The big problem I have with this case, is I need corroborating testimony from someone other than GZ about what he says. Mainly because when I heard his response to the officer telling him to stop pursuing TM, I am of the personal opinion that he ignored those orders and continued to follow TM. So, IMO, if he was willing to go against their orders, then I just cannot believe what he says without corroborating testimony.

And unfortunately in this case, there are just not enough credible witnesses YET. I hope there will be some more evidence soon to help me decide what really happened in this case.

 

[katiewonders]

If GZ would have waited in the car as he was told by LE on the 911 call he wouldn't be sitting in the defendants chair and Trayvon would be alive.

BBM The 911 operator testified that they are not allowed to give orders because of liability. I do agree, though, that had GZ observed and reported and did not follow, none of what followed would have happened.

I am sure GZ regrets that to this day, and will for the rest of his life. IMHO

 

[EquallyDivided]

we do not have proof yet of a broken nose or the extent of the injuries on the head, it is all speculation untill we see his medical records, if you google, you get 200 sites and half says it was broken, have said it wasn't, so imo you can't say 100& sure that the nose was broken until we see the medical reports

What does it matter if the nose was actually broken Vs bruised, swollen and bleeding? I'm just trying to understand the relevance as to the extent of the injuries.

 

[polleypockets]

Breaking somebody's nose and using their head as a basket ball in a crime and it is illegal.

but that was after he was confronted imo

 

[legalmania]

HE was not told to get back in the car. Not once. Yesterday on the stand, 911 guy said they are not allowed to tell people what to do because of liability.

Well the operator said are you following? GZ yes, operator don't do that. Also he was told by the Homeowners association that he could only view from a distance.
GZ knew he wasn't allowed to follow. He cost the homeowners a million dollars for not listening.

 

[m00c0w]

He wasn't just casually following TM...he chased him down. I would see that as threatening and I know my boys ages 14-19 would too.Flight or fight comes into play and TM chose to fight. I so wish he would have just hauled arse and got away from GZ....sadly he didn't.

Where is evidence that he chased Martin down? From what evidence has been presented so far, Zimmerman was watching from a distance to ascertain where Martin fled to and Martin initiated the confrontation.

 

[MeeBee]

The events that we know took place do not fit the codified definition of "stalking" via Florida law. "Stalking" is a disingenuous word to use to describe Zimmerman watching a person.

And, in my opinion, I'd say the person more likely to start a fight might be the kid with a history of drug use, potential gang activity, talking about illegal ownership of guns with friends, multiple thefts, and was currently suspended from school.

See, this is why the "" stuff, I believe, should not come in. I have known so many kids who get caught up in that stuff because they want to fit, they're friends are all doing it, because that's where he grew up, etc. It doesn't make them a bad kid at all. It's not right, but it doesn't make them a bad kid. What does potential gang activity mean? Did Trayvon actually own any illegal guns? Was he all talk? Then it's unfair to judge him for this stuff. And that's just because I grew up in a bad area and knew kids like that.

 

[iluvmua]

but that was after he was confronted imo

We don't know who confronted who.

from the evidence it seems that Trayvon either hid or came back at one point.

 

[popsicle]

Respectively, Just asking: Do you not see it as a possibility that TM asked "why are you following me" and GZ made a negative remark back, or GZ raised his flashlight, and TM thought it was a gun, and feared for his life so he reacted by punching GZ? There were no witnesses to what happened in those few seconds, so we don't know exactly what happened that could have caused the reaction to start the fight... people can be 'instigated' to throw the first punch. Not saying that is right or that GZ instigated TM, just saying, even the evidence we have doesn't tell us the situation at the time the 'scuffle/fight' began.

In such a case the benefit of the doubt must go with the defendant. Innocent until proven guilty. imo

 

[iluvmua]

See, this is why the "" stuff, I believe, should not come in. I have known so many kids who get caught up in that stuff because they want to fit, they're friends are all doing it, because that's where he grew up, etc. It doesn't make them a bad kid at all. It's not right, but it doesn't make them a bad kid. What does potential gang activity mean? Did Trayvon actually own any illegal guns? Was he all talk? Then it's unfair to judge him for this stuff. And that's just because I grew up in a bad area and knew kids like that.

It goes to Trayvon's state of mind so I absolutely think It should come in.

It also proves that Trayvon was not the innocent little boy his family or the media want you to believe.

Which is why I'm hoping the state brings up George's record from 2005. (charges were dropped).

 

[PaintingAnemone]

GZ was afraid, he didn't want to give out his address because of fear of retribution, he was on the phone with LE which precludes any nonsense about stalking. TM fit a specific profile of people who had been committing burglaries in the area, so the racism charge is just knee jerk name calling.

No, it's not nonsense. It's what happened. He followed after being told not to do so, and he was not on the phone with LE the whole time. That doesn't indicate fear. If GZ had been afraid, he'd have stayed in his car. Instead, he got out and gave chase. Not wanting to say your address where someone else can overhear is cautious, to be sure. But he doesn't sound or act at all like someone in fear for his own safety.

Whatever "profile" TM fit, he had committed no crime, and had every right to be where he was. Walking down the street is not a crime. Buying candy is not a crime. Visiting one's friends, talking on a cell phone, or wearing a hoodie - none of these things are crimes. Running from a suspicious stranger is not a crime. Yet he was treated like a criminal by someone with no authority to do so. TM did not initiate contact with GZ, it was the other way around. He stalked (yes, stalked) an innocent young man.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Well the operator said are you following? GZ yes, operator don't do that. Also he was told by the Homeowners association that he could only view from a distance.
GZ knew he wasn't allowed to follow. He cost the homeowners a million dollars for not listening.

NO. He did not.. He said " We don't need you to do that.. "

That is not anywhere the same thing..

 

[Tenaciousdae]

Graphic photos on line. Please view at your own discretion.

CAUTION.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...non-emergency-calls-police-used-evidence.html

:seeya:

In photo #5 can anyone identify the object above TM's head...
TIA

 

[missmazzy]

Is it me, or is this witness being evasive?

 

[m00c0w]

No, it's not nonsense. It's what happened. He followed after being told not to do so, and he was not on the phone with LE the whole time. That doesn't indicate fear. If GZ had been afraid, he'd have stayed in his car. Instead, he got out and gave chase. Not wanting to say your address where someone else can overhear is cautious, to be sure. But he doesn't sound or act at all like someone in fear for his own safety.

Whatever "profile" TM fit, he had committed no crime, and had every right to be where he was. Walking down the street is not a crime. Buying candy is not a crime. Visiting one's friends, talking on a cell phone, or wearing a hoodie - none of these things are crimes. Running from a suspicious stranger is not a crime. Yet he was treated like a criminal by someone with no authority to do so. TM did not initiate contact with GZ, it was the other way around. He stalked (yes, stalked) an innocent young man.

BBM

In your opinion.

 

[lisalei321]

We don't know who confronted who.

from the evidence it seems that Trayvon either hid or came back at one point.

So how did they end up where Trayvon was killed? If he had came back, why didn't George just get in his truck and lock the doors?

Why is the testimony I'm hearing right now, have George chasing Trayvon?

(granted, my feed keeps cutting out, but that's what I heard)

 

[polleypockets]

I hope they also bring in the reason TM was staying with his dad. I hope they bring in why TM was not in school. I hope they bring in why the dad didn't go looking for TM that night.

iirc that has already been denied, unless the state opens the door -

 

[corundogs]

According to GZ's own words...he said TM said to him "Why are you following me?"

Supposedly, his response was "What are you doing around here?"

Then what?

George states later he was trying to detain him...unsure if this is supposedly before or after the shot?

Again, I am so confused about that statement.

But GZ states that the original confrontation begins with "Why are you following me?" from Trayvon.

This tells me - maybe it's just me - that George was in fact, following him then.

This didn't happen at GZ's car. The car was quite some distance from where this happened. Trayvon wasn't hiding anywhere...there are no buildings to hide where he was found. That was out in the open as it comes in that complex.

This is the problem. George's story doesn't add up to what we have been told and what we know.

And if he's lying about how this all happened, there is a reason for that.

 

[Jhpuffy]

:seeya:

In photo #5 can anyone identify the object above TM's head...
TIA

I think they said it was the mask the EMT use for cpr.

 

[crimesnooper]

I had brought up yesterday what factors would the elements bring if his hands were exposed to rain/wet grass/etc. I will say though that despite the gunshot wound I don't think there was a ton of blood at the scene or even on TM's clothing (his or GZ's), which may explain lack of DNA.

During the opening statement yesterday, the defense said TM hands were not bagged and should have been wrapped in plastic.