George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General discussion #2

[polleypockets]

do you know who this witness is?? and di we have copies of discovery??? ok, i am catching up, if TM was n top of GZ, how did he end up face down when he was shot?[/QUOTE]

The witness is named John, he is the one who saw TM on top of GZ.

TM was on top of george when he fired the shot that killed him, he then got out from underneath him and trayvon fell forward.

I believe this is in the police reports.

TM was on top of GZ beating him. When GZ shot him holding the gun point up my guess is that TM fell straight down. and GZ crawled out.

do you mean this witness??
"Witness 6

This witness lived a few feet from where Trayvon and Zimmerman had their fight. On the night of the shooting, he told Serino he saw a black man on top of a lighter-skinned man "just throwing down blows on the guy, MMA-style," a reference to mixed martial arts.

He also said the one calling for help was "the one being beat up," a reference to Zimmerman.

But three weeks later, when he was interviewed by an FDLE agent, the man said he was no longer sure which one called for help.

"I truly can't tell who, after thinking about it, was yelling for help just because it was so dark out on that sidewalk," he said.

He also said he was no longer sure Trayvon was throwing punches. The teenager may have simply been keeping Zimmerman pinned to the ground, he said.

He did not equivocate, though, about who was on top.

"The black guy was on top," he said."
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...120522_1_witnesses-change-shooting-fdle-agent

there have been a lot of changes in all these witnesses stories as time goes on, plus it was dark and he was looking out a window - all doors were shut

the problem w/ shooting TM on top of GZ, even if TM falls forward, GZ would still have to roll the body off him to get up, imo i do not see an explanation of how any one can be shot like this and end up face down

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I think GZ was on top of TM when he shot him; he then rolled the body over to try and align the body with his story. He's changed his story several times and the actual evidence just does not match up. An unarmed, teenager was killed by a wanna-be cop that thought he had authority to boss people around that he didn't know. If you listen to the first 911 call, he already has his mind made up that TM is a , on drugs, and just suspicious...why you ask? Well, because he's walking at night in the rain.

But there is a witness who SAW TM on top of GZ beating him. So that does not fit with the facts.

 

[iluvmua]

Regardless of my own opinions, I don't believe we will see a conviction in this case. Possibly a tiny chance of voluntary manslaughter but that would be the most.

I'm thinking we will get a full blown not guilty.

 

[m00c0w]

I think GZ was on top of TM when he shot him; he then rolled the body over to try and align the body with his story. He's changed his story several times and the actual evidence just does not match up. An unarmed, teenager was killed by a wanna-be cop that thought he had authority to boss people around that he didn't know. If you listen to the first 911 call, he already has his mind made up that TM is a , on drugs, and just suspicious...why you ask? Well, because he's walking at night in the rain.

While there were no witnesses to the initiation of the confrontation, there were several witnesses at the end and none saw Zimmerman rearranging anything. So I'm not sure where this notion arrives from.

 

[MeeBee]

Here is my opinion:

I think Trayvon did jump George and was beating him and George went for his gun and fired.

But for me, the question is why? Why did Trayvon run? Why did he attack? Why was he angry? Why did Zimmerman suspect him? Was Trayvon really acting suspicious, or did George just perceive him that way? Would the confrontation have happened if George hadn't initially followed Trayvon or stayed in his car? It's the circumstances around the attack. George's story holds water. I don't think he set out to kill Trayvon. But Trayvon was in his sights. And is it possible he's leaving out certain details to make himself sound totally innocent as opposed to mildly cuplable? Should he have shot to kill?

So far, I'm leaning toward either acquittal or manslaughter. I need to hear and see more. And that's scary because I think this is all I'll get. I hope George testifies.

 

[Irisha]

What are you talking about? They took his clothes for evidence and his wife came up to the police station with a fresh pair of clothes.


If this is what you are talking about, this is why his clothes are not dirty.

No, when he got out of the police car in the police garage. His clothes were clean, neat. No scuff marks, grass stains, visible blood, dirt.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

do you mean this witness??
"Witness 6

This witness lived a few feet from where Trayvon and Zimmerman had their fight. On the night of the shooting, he told Serino he saw a black man on top of a lighter-skinned man "just throwing down blows on the guy, MMA-style," a reference to mixed martial arts.

He also said the one calling for help was "the one being beat up," a reference to Zimmerman.

But three weeks later, when he was interviewed by an FDLE agent, the man said he was no longer sure which one called for help.

"I truly can't tell who, after thinking about it, was yelling for help just because it was so dark out on that sidewalk," he said.

He also said he was no longer sure Trayvon was throwing punches. The teenager may have simply been keeping Zimmerman pinned to the ground, he said.

He did not equivocate, though, about who was on top.

"The black guy was on top," he said."
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...120522_1_witnesses-change-shooting-fdle-agent

there have been a lot of changes in all these witnesses stories as time goes on, plus it was dark and he was looking out a window - all doors were shut

the problem w/ shooting TM on top of GZ, even if TM falls forward, GZ would still have to roll the body off him to get up, imo i do not see an explanation of how any one can be shot like this and end up face down

No he would not. He could have just lifted and pulled himself out.

 

[AngelWings444]

The clothes he was wearing AT THE TIME are not showing much is what is being said/asked (I think).
It's true, I am not seeing any grass or mud stains.
If they were on the ground on a rainy night I would think you would be seeing more grunge on GZ's clothing.

To add to your point, head wounds and bloody noses bleed SO bad. If GZ really had a broken nose and was pummeled as he states, there would be blood everywhere, including all over his clothes. JMO

 

[DIBSY]

That is one I have been wondering myself.
Has GZ had any types of evaluations done?

Am going to search for that after today's trial broadcast is completed.

 

[iluvmua]

Quotes are getting mixed up lol

 

[polleypockets]

Unfortunately for GZ the defense's forays into fantasy, including poor taste jokes are cringe making. O'Mara's pettiness is asking Sgt. Raimundo if he felt policemen were ever belittled is another empty ploy to distract and detract from the Actual Murder/Crime, which ever you may deem it.

Also, Zimmerman is doing a great identity of Cold Fish....with no emotion beyond mild impatience when something is repeated. His dead expression suggests total indifference, even when pics of TM's lifeless body appeared.

Is he sedated or has he ice water running through his veins?

i can not believe he said that either - honest to god! imo in 2 days between the joke, forgetting to object to the 911 tapes, and now this, of this keeps up, imo i think he might really have a case for inneffective counsel,

and i can;t tell if they are really this bad, or if maybe this is their plan?

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

To add to your point, head wounds and bloody noses bleed SO bad. If GZ really had a broken nose and was pummeled as he states, there would be blood everywhere, including all over his clothes. JMO

HE was bleeding and there was blood on his shirt. when you look at the actual clothes they just showed in court you can see staining on the front of his shirt. The picture taken at the seen has lots of blood on his face.

 

[m00c0w]

To add to your point, head wounds and bloody noses bleed SO bad. If GZ really had a broken nose and was pummeled as he states, there would be blood everywhere, including all over his clothes. JMO

Have you not seen the picture of his face when he's in the back of the police car? He was clearly bleeding on his face. In the pictures at the police station, he's clearly bleeding from the back of his head, even after EMS has cleaned up up once already. Blood simply may not be as visible in quick glimpses of his jacket because of the color of it. I'm pretty sure I saw splotches of blood on the front of it when the prosecutor was holding it up for the CSU lady to identify.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

http://gillreport.com/2012/12/video-new-bloody-photo-of-george-zimmerman-released/

Better picture of his face.

 

[Hatfield]

I'm wondering why GZ clothes are not dirty, I would think he would have some dirt on the back of his jacket, even grass stains. Am I missing something?

JMO
I wonder too. I also would think there would be blood from the wound immediately pour directly onto George if he shot him while TM was on top of him.

It seems to me that blood would immediately pour directly down due to gravity and if George is claiming TM was on top of him, then where is the blood on Georges front shirt or clothes like I would expect to see?

I really wish there were better eye witnesses to the actual shooting part and struggling parts.

 

[m00c0w]

JMO
I wonder too. I also would think there would be blood from the wound immediately pour directly onto George if he shot him while TM was on top of him.

It seems to me that blood would immediately pour directly down due to gravity and if George is claiming he was on top of him, then where is the blood on Georges front shirt or clothes like I would expect to see?

I really wish there were better eye witnesses to the actual shooting part and struggling parts.

Not if he was bleeding into the pleural cavity, which is suggested by the officer's description of his CPR attempts.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2012/...George-Zimmerman-New-Reports-New-Injury-Video

more picture of injuries.

 

[polleypockets]

But there is a witness who SAW TM on top of GZ beating him. So that does not fit with the facts.

i just posted, up, he changed his story saying it look like he was just trying to pin him, and didn't see hin being punched

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

JMO
I wonder too. I also would think there would be blood from the wound immediately pour directly onto George if he shot him while TM was on top of him.

It seems to me that blood would immediately pour directly down due to gravity and if George is claiming TM was on top of him, then where is the blood on Georges front shirt or clothes like I would expect to see?

I really wish there were better eye witnesses to the actual shooting part and struggling parts.

Did you see the pictures of the wound? Because there is less blood than you would think. His tshirt had blood but his sweatshirt did not appear to have blood on the front. That would have been in direct contact with GZ.

 

[jojomonkey]

Here is my opinion:

I think Trayvon did jump George and was beating him and George went for his gun and fired.

But for me, the question is why? Why did Trayvon run? Why did he attack? Why was he angry? Why did Zimmerman suspect him? Was Trayvon really acting suspicious, or did George just perceive him that way? Would the confrontation have happened if George hadn't initially followed Trayvon or stayed in his car? It's the circumstances around the attack. George's story holds water. I don't think he set out to kill Trayvon. But Trayvon was in his sights. And is it possible he's leaving out certain details to make himself sound totally innocent as opposed to mildly cuplable? Should he have shot to kill?

So far, I'm leaning toward either acquittal or manslaughter. I need to hear and see more. And that's scary because I think this is all I'll get. I hope George testifies.

Those are the issues for me as well. The circumstances that led up to the attack, GZ instigated it by following him. I go back to my original feeling of being followed by someone and how I reacted. I do think TM was hitting GZ but GZ is at fault for it getting to that point.

I was followed by a man in a mall once, I think he was mentally "off" but regardless, it was terrifying. Your natural instincts are first to get away, but you see them again, and again. You keep trying to lose them, to leave the area, but they continue to follow. When it was clear he wasn't going to stop, I turned around and screamed"what the F--- is your problem?!?!?" I felt very confrontational at that point.

I can tell you honestly if that person had continue to approach me I would have fought will all my might. I don't think I deserved to die for reacting in a very natural way to that situation. So that's why my feelings are so strong that GZ's actions that led up to the attack are to blame.