George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General discussion #2

[ScarlettScarpetta]

West is doing a good job today.

 

[PaperDoll]

Of course we know TM started the fight, he was not in GZ's sight and GZ was walking back to his vehicle. TM was clearly the aggressor, according to all the evidence. Why would GZ even bother starting a fight after he got off the phone with LE? He knew cops were on the way. The problem is, people can't accept that TM was in the wrong so all evidence is disregarded.

So, you are going by what GZ said because no one witnesses who started the fight from my understanding. How do you know that GZ isn't lying about this, or "sugar coating" it in his favor?

 

[m00c0w]

You may recall that TM had no traces of GZ's DNA underneath his nails and he would have blood had he inflicted those injuries. I have not heard that TM had only the one injury. But it seems GZ wanted to use his gun because after trying to use MAA to restrain and beat up his target, it was ineffective.

Now we have seen that GZ has a rather long history of alerting the police to " suspicious" black people, even one as recent as two weeks before he fatally shot TM. Often when a citizen has such a history of reporting individuals to the police, they are labelled as Drama Kings or Queens. I think in this instance GZ wanted a trophy to prove to the police officers that he wasn'
t just another guy who called wolf habitually.

Were Martin's hands bagged at the scene? And how long were his fingernails? Is it a 100% sure chance that Zimmerman's DNA would be under his fingernails or on his hands from a closed-fist blow and using an open hand to slam his head into the sidewalk?

 

[corundogs]

defend himself from what? Who was he defending himself from?

He could have ran back to the place he was staying in under a minute, well before GZ got off the phone.

How can you defend yourself from anyone when the guy you are beating has no wounds to his hands?

There is no evidence to suggest GZ threw any punches etc at TM.

So how would TM be defending himself from someone who didn't even have the time to react?

I have tried to not get this specific. But this is in fact what I think happened.

George tried to detain Trayvon. I believe that with my whole heart. That is breaking the law, unlawful imprisonment.

Trayvon was afraid. Anyone can tell you anything...he just knew a big guy was trying to keep him someplace. He didn't know if he was going to be the victim of a gang initiation - something that I do believe is in the forefront of any black kids mind at all times when confronted - or robbed, or any other number of things - kidnapped, raped, whatever! I just believe that I would if I was a kid today - black or white. It's scary out there. He was a young black kid at night, alone. Like it or not, he is on edge when he sees someone following him. Cause he knows he didn't do anything wrong and this person is not law enforcement...so why are you following me in your car and then getting out to continue to follow me?

I think Trayvon pushed him. And he hit his face on a concrete wall. Now remember, you are asking me what I think happened. Cause I don't believe George's story so I have to come up with something...that's what our minds do.

Because like it's being pointed out that George had no injuries to his hands...neither did Trayvon.

But again...this is my gut feeling.

And if Trayvon is on the defense FIRST, then George can't then say he was defending himself from that defense. It doesn't work that way.

 

[legalmania]

I have had such a hard time accepting that the large flashlight of GZ had no trace evidence on it. What caused those circular red marks on GZ head?
If GZ's head was pounded on flat concrete, why is it that there are those red pattern marks on his head?
My thoughts instantly take me back in time to a point when my abusive ex had self injured in order to try to make it look like I had hurt him.

That same exact thing happened to my nice. He cut himself in the throat with a knife and said she did it. She spent 3 weeks in jail because of him, he didn't realize there were witnesses and after 3 weeks they let her out. He had to spend 4 days in jail that's it. So what does she do went right back with him?

 

[scorekeeper]

Yes, I looked it up myself (probably as you were typing this reply!).

I just have a son who is 6'4 and built pretty solidly, so when I hear almost 6 feet and 158 lbs is rings as very thin to me. Did not mean to insult leaner folks!

My son was 5' 10"/5' 11" and weighed 158 as a junior/senior in high school and he was buff (muscular). And he was quick on his feet.

 

[PaintingAnemone]

That's the ideal weight of someone that height. Maybe even slightly heavier than ideal weight. I'm 5'10" and at 150, I'm definitely not a "string bean".

My bf is 6', and he got sick once and lost weight down to about 155. It was almost scary how thin he looked. He has about an inch on Martin, but I still wouldn't call that an ideal weight for anyone of that height range.

 

[m00c0w]

Yes, I looked it up myself (probably as you were typing this reply!).

I just have a son who is 6'4 and built pretty solidly, so when I hear almost 6 feet and 158 lbs is rings as very thin to me. Did not mean to insult leaner folks!

No worries!

 

[ohiogirl]

see here is my problem imo, this is from a left wing political magazine, so many facts are coming from bias sources which have been battling since day one, imo i feel that we can only look at the true evidence that is in court or discovery and read laws our selves rather than trusting any ones interrpreation of anything on this case

Go to the Wikipedia page on Shooting of TM and there are endless links to official reports, news reports, etc. :seeya:

 

[ohiogirl]

I didn't miss the testimony of the girl on the phone with TM this morning, did I?

Nope. :seeya:

 

[iluvmua]

This is a sincere question, not trying to start a thing.

How do you know GZ was walking back to his vehicle? How do you know TM was not within GZ's sight?

The State said under oath they cannot say GZ was not walking back to his vehicle.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1204/20/cnr.02.html

O'MARA: That statement that he had given you -- sorry, law enforcement that day, that we just talked about, turning around and that he was assaulted, do you have any evidence in your investigation to date that specifically contradicts either of those two pieces of evidence that were in his statement given several hours after the event?

GILBREATH: Which two?

O'MARA: That he turned back to his car. We'll start with that one.

GILBREATH: I have nothing to indicate he did not or did not to that.

O'MARA: My question was do you have any evidence to contradict or that conflicts with his contention given before he knew any of the evidence that would conflict with the fact that he stated I walked back to my car?

GILBREATH: No.

O'MARA: Since. Today. Do you have any evidence that conflicts with his suggestion that he had turned around and went back to his car?

GILBREATH: Other than his statement, no.

 

[m00c0w]

My bf is 6', and he got sick once and lost weight down to about 155. It was almost scary how thin he looked. He has about an inch on Martin, but I still wouldn't call that an ideal weight for anyone of that height range.

Maybe you wouldn't, but lots of professionals do.

http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/guidelines/obesity/BMI/bmicalc.htm

 

[Overuled]

So, you are going by what GZ said because no one witnesses who started the fight from my understanding. How do you know that GZ isn't lying about this, or "sugar coating" it in his favor?

How would gz know if someone might be watching the whole incident? He couldn't have known that folks were calling in as he was yelling out.

When he made his initial statement I'm sure he stuck to the story as close as he could account. Afterall- he WAS surrounded by neighbors even though they weren't outside. People were calling in to report- better tell the truth. This is my opinion and it just makes sense to me but it might not make sense to anyone else. I'm still hearing testimony.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

The pictures they are showing now shows his head injuries better.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

This is a sincere question, not trying to start a thing.

How do you know GZ was walking back to his vehicle? How do you know TM was not within GZ's sight?

Based on the 9-11 calls.

 

[polleypockets]

There were reports that Martin's hands showed evidence of hitting someone, IIRC. I don't recall if that was from the ME or from the funeral director, but it seemed to be clear that he definitely threw punches.

i can't find that, and yesterday they said in court that none of GZ dna was on TM hands

and then there is this initial statement from GZ
Zimmerman told Sanford police officers that tidbit about Trayvon’s arms twice. The first time was when he was interviewed by detectives the night of the shooting. The second time was during a reenactment of the events the day after the killing, which I detailed last year.

“I don’t know if I pushed him off me [or] he fell off me, either way I got on top of him and I pushed his arms apart,” Zimmerman said as he demonstrated how he spread Trayvon’s arms away from his body. He told the officer that he didn’t remember how he got on top of his victim and continued with his version of events. “But I got on his back and moved his arms apart because when he was repeatedly hitting me in the face and the head,” Zimmerman said, “I thought he had something in his hands. So, I moved his hands apart.” Trayvon, he said, was face down. Again, he says the neighbor with the flashlight came out, he asked that person to help him restrain Trayvon. The police arrived perhaps less than a minute later and he stood up, holstered his weapon and put his hands up.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...zimmerman-trips-over-trayvons-arms-and-hands/

and yesterday they showed the pic of TM b4 police arrived and it showed that arms were under the body - so how could this have happened?

 

[gxm]

see here is my problem imo, this is from a left wing political magazine, so many facts are coming from bias sources which have been battling since day one, imo i feel that we can only look at the true evidence that is in court or discovery and read laws our selves rather than trusting any ones interrpreation of anything on this case

It's not an interpretation. Either the burden of proof shifts or it doesn't. From every source that I've read, the burden of proof remains with the prosecution in this case. It does not shift to the defense, as many here are claiming. Is there a Florida lawyer following this trial who can weigh in?

 

[PaperDoll]

How would gz know if someone might be watching the whole incident? He couldn't have known that folks were calling in as he was yelling out.

When he made his initial statement I'm sure he stuck to the story as close as he could account. Afterall- he WAS surrounded by neighbors even though they weren't outside. People were calling in to report- better tell the truth. This is my opinion and it just makes sense to me but it might not make sense to anyone else. I'm still hearing testimony.

I believe that GZ is telling the truth in some of his story, but I don't believe all of what he says, sorry, that is just me. I also don't believe that your mind is going to be on who's watching and who isn't in some instances.

 

[DIBSY]

TM was not in the wrong by any stretch of the imagination in my estimation. He was peaceabley on his own family property when GZ targeted him.
GZ's filthy and hate mongering words to LE BEFORE he engaged with TM will prove this was a hate inspired crime. Exactly what is needed by the Prosecution for conviction.

 

[iluvmua]

Based on the 9-11 calls.

The state also admitted under oath at GZ's bond hearing back in 2012 that they have no proof that GZ did not return to he vehicle.