George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General discussion #5

[Lovelymountains]

Me either. There is no testimony or evidence that shows that TM knew GZ had a gun at any point before being shot.

Actually, GZ himself said that TM saw the gun and tried to grab it. According to GZ it was at that point he shot him. IMO

 

[cityslick]

Personally, I think every single person, even if his daddy is a judge/magistate and even if he is a self-appointed " captain" of NW, should be tried for murder when they harrass and shoot dead an unarmed individual of any race or creed.

What exactly is the point of the weapon then? Just give carte blanche to people who are unarmed to do anything they want to someone, regardless if they have a weapon because they knew they will never be at fault?

 

[AZWatcher]

Witness thinks GZ was screaming for help.

Why would GZ be screaming? He had all of the "Help" he needed in his pocket, locked and loaded. Makes no sense.

 

[jjenny]

Why would GZ be screaming? He had all of the "Help" he needed in his pocket, locked and loaded. Makes no sense.

Seriously? If he was the one getting beat up, why wouldn't he be screaming? There were no injuries on Trayvon Martin prior to gunshot wound. So why would Trayvon be screaming for help?

 

[iluvmua]

I recall Zimmerman stated Travyon sat up, put his hands up and said something like "you got me" immediately after being shot. Have any witnesses corroborated seeing Travyon sit up and put his hands up? I'm wondering if perhaps this occurred immediately *prior* to George firing the weapon vs. immediately after. Or maybe simultaneously. If it's true that Trayvon suddenly sat up and put his hands up, that is more consistent with something one might do in response to having a gun pulled on them.

He did not die immediately so I think it is entirely possible for him to say what George says he said.

Immediately after

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com..._1_trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-blood-loss

The 17-year-old survived for several minutes, according to two experts who reviewed Trayvon's autopsy for the Orlando Sentinel.

"You're talking about minutes, at least, for him to survive," said Dr. William Anderson, a forensic specialist and former deputy medical examiner for Orange and Osceola counties. "I think he would have been conscious … for a little time, anyway."

The two doctors agreed that Trayvon remained conscious for a time. Anderson suggested the teenager may have been conscious for several minutes. Manion estimated it at just 20 to 30 seconds.

One piece of evidence that Trayvon did not die instantly, both doctors said, was the color of his fingernails.

 

[cityslick]

Why would GZ be screaming? He had all of the "Help" he needed in his pocket, locked and loaded. Makes no sense.

Because his intention wasn't to shoot TM, even as he was getting beat up. He was hoping someone would come and get TM off of him.

 

[katiewonders]

May I respectfully disagree with some of your post? If my son were killed in the dark by a stranger and my son was doing nothing wrong, but LE declared the very next day that no arrest would be made, I would accept help from Sharpton, Jackson, the devil himself, to try to get justice for my son.

Since you asked...

Personally, I'd take the devil himself over any self-serving, chest-thumping, television personality, but YES, I would be demanding charges be brought, a trial be conducted, and the jury to find for the truth.

If the truth was that my son began a physical altercation that put a man in the position of using deadly force to save his life, I would accept that. I would apologize to GZ and the family.

If the truth was that a man wrongfully murdered my son, I would accept that. I would tell GZ that I wished he could have gotten the death penalty.

Either way, my son would not be brought back, and I would tell the world that I still loved him. All just MHO

 

[twall]

Why would GZ be screaming? He had all of the "Help" he needed in his pocket, locked and loaded. Makes no sense.

Because he wanted someone to help restrain TM so he didn't have to shoot him. JMO

 

[Lovelymountains]

We have testimony from Sean, the NEN taker (Not LE), that they are not liable to give orders, only make suggestions. And George was never told ever to go back to his car by anyone.

GZ, IMO, used a very poor judgement to get out of his car, but following someone is not illegal.

and I agree with the rest of what you posted, and I most def. agree that this trial should have never happened.

JMO

Perhaps I misheard, but I believe that Sean, the dispatcher for NEN, said they do not issue orders because that would make them "Liable." It was my understanding that he meant legally liable for any subsequent problem caused by their order. IMO

 

[missmazzy]

Why would GZ be screaming? He had all of the "Help" he needed in his pocket, locked and loaded. Makes no sense.

If he was on the ground, as this eyewitness has testified to, getting the crap beat out of him he would.

 

[miimaa]

This trial makes it very clear our court system does not seek the truth. All strategy, plays and ploys to get the best deal for their client.

Right now the State is trying to impeach their own witness but when Jeantel did the very same thing they did not do it to her. I hope I am never charged with a crime.

 

[mom23gr8kids]

This is absolutely 100% proof he did not do what the operator recommended. And proof that GZ's story does not add to that proof.

If he had headed back to his truck after the operator "recommended" it (which I don't believe that was a recommendation, but again, semantics to try to make something fit your theory)

He would have been no where near where this happened.

He would have been back in the safety of his truck. He would have still been on the phone with 911 if he had headed back to his truck after he said "OK".

The 911 operator - and us - know exactly when he got out of his car. You could hear the dings of his door, and he started moving. That's completely clear.

It was an exchange that lasted about 20 seconds.

However, he stayed on the phone with 911 for another 1 minute and 40+ seconds...based on a timeline that was posted yesterday.

PLENTY of time to have been back in the safety of his truck.

However, we know that's not the case, and this altercation took place quite some distance from his truck. And of course, there was 2+ minutes from the time of him hanging up and the actual gun shot.

There is absolutely irrefutable proof that he did NOT follow 911's "recommendation".

HOWEVER if GZ's reenactment of his actions is accurate it could explain why he wasn't back in his truck. He said he was walking on that sidewalk at the top of the T. THe dispatcher said "we don't need you to do that" so his focus then stopped from following and he was just going straight through to the next street to look for a street sign since in high stress he didn't know the name of the street. After getting there and either seeing or not seeing (I don't remember) the street sign he began returning to his truck on the sidewalk at the top of the T and was then approached by TM from the middle of the buildings. Whether you believe this happened or not it certainly could have and it certainly could explain that time frame. And IMO this most accurately fits the time line and the evidence I've seen. JMOO

 

[Nezumi]

Actually, GZ himself said that TM saw the gun and tried to grab it. According to GZ it was at that point he shot him. IMO

Treyvon Martin had no idea that GZ was armed when he decided to double back and teach the 'crazy cracker' a lesson. He thought he could offer up a successful beat down (like the ones he bragged about in his Twitter and Facebook accounts.). He was wrong.

 

[missmazzy]

He lived in Miami Gardens. Specifically. He might have been afraid of someone following him there -- maybe. But not of George in Sanford, in my very, very strong opinion.

Another of MHOs, but GZ did himself a great disservice by gaining so much weight. He was so much smaller at the time of this incident. He was definitely the smaller of the two that night.

One more thing....must the judge be so snippy to the defense?

 

[JudyBolton]

I often wonder why they never ask witnesses if they wear contact lenses or glasses and if they had them on.

One of the witnesses has a sister who could not see without her contacts and had already removed them with this occurred. So far, she has not been called to the stand.

 

[corundogs]

Ok....I can't focus on this.

I want to be watching and chatting on Big Brother.

I may be back later. LOL!!

 

[Jane Jetson]

"George Zimmerman Reenactment Of Trayvon Martin Shooting (Part 1)" - starts with GZ and police officer/detective (?) at 2:20.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEpCnpnHODI&feature=player_embedded"]George Zimmerman Reenactment Of Trayvon Martin Shooting (Part 1) - YouTube[/ame]

Trayvon was "circling [my] car," according to GZ (6:20).

IMO, George knew there had been break-ins in the past, and was trying to protect his neighborhood, as he was on the neighborhood watch.

Dispatcher said to him, "Can you get to somewhere where you can see him?" I don't think it would have progressed to where it did if this had not been said. :twocents:

 

[DIBSY]

Me either. There is no testimony or evidence that shows that TM knew GZ had a gun at any point before being shot.

I thought GZ said that he grabbed his gun because he said TM had seen it.

I wouldn't be a bit surprized if GZ didn't flash his gun at TM when he questioned why he was there...lifted his jacket, perhaps....not sure...could have been at any time during the conflict. IMV

 

[numnut]

As far as I'm concerned this case should wrap up TODAY!

This very credible eye & ear witness that was the CLOSEST to the fight has stated that GZ was on the bottom screaming for help. GZ is have very visable injuries.

Prosecution witness' seem more for the defense. NO WONDER the State did not want to bring this to trial.

I wish GZ NEVER got out of his car that night. But, he DID kill in self defense.

 

[JudyBolton]

One more thing....must the judge be so snippy to the defense?

People all over the internet, social media, etc. are commenting on the judge's demeanor to the defense. Pretty pathetic for this example to be on display.... why does it seem most of the trials with judges that are BOTH fair AND move the case along are not on TV or sensational?