George Zimmerman /Trayvon Martin General Discussion #7

[missmazzy]

"I'm not gonna hit you" LOL! I know who would win the fight between this prosecutor and that detective!

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Guys, lets make sure we are being careful. It is not even noon and we have had a couple warnings..

Don't make it personal, Make sure you are posting IMO, JMO or MOO in your post unless it is backed up by facts in evidence..

Lets show them how awesome we can handle this!!


OMO

 

[Hopeful One]

Hello all. Happy to be here.
Didn't BDLR just open the door with ( paraphrase ) "no evidence that TM was up to no good"? Isn't TM's past evidence?

What is TM's past? I meant to ask about this earlier as I haven't followed the case from the beginning so there's still a lot I don't know.

 

[JeannaT]

Hello all. Happy to be here.
Didn't BDLR just open the door with ( paraphrase ) "no evidence that TM was up to no good"? Isn't TM's past evidence?

Interesting thought.

As I understand it, his school records have been sealed, and that's where any evidence of past criminal behavior would be located. The school never involved, as I recall, law enforcement in their dealings with suspected criminal behavior on Trayvon's part. He was suspended and involved in incidents at school that haven't been fully vetted and published by MSM so have to be considered rumors. And I don't think the defense has access to those records.

IMHO.

 

[JeannaT]

Thank goodness the judge is putting time limits on this.

 

[PaperDoll]

That is not fact based reasoning.. that is emotional reasoning and if that is what your source is that is okay. Every one gets to choose or not to choose what they believe.

But that is where I think we have that line of one side or the other.

I believe in the Justice system. WE have to presume innocence and it has to be proven that someone is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. If there is no proof and only emotion reigns then we lose as a society.

I am so sorry that TM is gone. I am sorry that this happened but I see this as a happenstance of misery. They collided and TM overpowered GZ proven by his injuries and he shot to save his person. It did not have to be scared to the point of death, But I do believe that GZ believed he may die at the hand of TM and he shot him in self defense. That is what the issue is. Did GZ have enough evidence in that moment to think he was going to be done great harm. That is all the law states.. He had a right to protect his person.
.................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Yes, emotions play a part in all this.. In fact, emotions played a part in GZ following TM, emotions played a part in GZ shooting TM, emotions played a part in TM fighting for his life, IMO. We are all here because of our emotions. If I didn't have any emotions, I would not care what happens, then again not caring is also a emotion. :twocents:

 

[iluvmua]

Is John Guy there? the PROS. who gave the opening statement?

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

This case has so many people on either side. Haven't seen anything like it in quite awhile.

Love reading your opinion though. :seeya:

Thanks!

I want the truth to be told. I want to make sure that no one innocent goes to jail and the guilty are prosecuted.

I am always open to evidence that proves the prosecution case. I just don't see it.

My passion is for justice, My heart is for TM's family and dear ones but I have to stand up for the innocent until they are proven guilty.

 

[JeannaT]

What is TM's past? I meant to ask about this earlier as I haven't followed the case from the beginning so there's still a lot I don't know.

It's rumor and I don't think we can post it here - but you can google that information and find it.

I don't think you can post it here, though.

IMHO

 

[Sonya610]

I can't believe the questions the prosecutor was asking. Is it illegal to wear a hoodie? Is it illegal to wear a hoodie at night?

That sounds so desperate and so angry IMO.

 

[missmazzy]

A man. A boy.
One is dead.
Whether shot with intent, or not,
there is culpability.
As in past cases, where-in the defendant was innocent of intent,
there are still legal repercussions.

The boy, went out for snacks.
He may have been posing, trying to show strength,
as young men will do, in the face of confronting someone stronger.
The man, perceived a threat, perhaps based on recent burglaries.
A boy, mis-took the confrontation as a threat, perhaps reacted in agression, from fear.
That is all this is about.
A man pulled a gun, and shot.
What is the cost of this young mans life?
Skittles?

Very well said. I believe GZ should pay some penalty for what happened. I think he was overcharged. Both men (or man and boy/child) were responsible for their actions. TM did not deserve to die that night, but neither did GZ.

I don't have an answer for any of this. It was a tragedy and unfortunately has become a circus. Part if me just wants to take a nap until it's over.

JMO, and all that jazz...

 

[Hopeful One]

Thanks!

I want the truth to be told. I want to make sure that no one innocent goes to jail and the guilty are prosecuted.

I am always open to evidence that proves the prosecution case. I just don't see it.

My passion is for justice, My heart is for TM's family and dear ones but I have to stand up for the innocent until they are proven guilty.

We need more people like you in this world.

 

[iluvmua]

Interesting thought.

As I understand it, his school records have been sealed, and that's where any evidence of past criminal behavior would be located. The school never involved, as I recall, law enforcement in their dealings with suspected criminal behavior on Trayvon's part. He was suspended and involved in incidents at school that haven't been fully vetted and published by MSM so have to be considered rumors. And I don't think the defense has access to those records.

IMHO.

They have them, along with TM's Facebook page and Twitter Account.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-ma...merman-defense/story?id=17517884#.UdLsJPlJMSY

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

That is not fact based reasoning.. that is emotional reasoning and if that is what your source is that is okay. Every one gets to choose or not to choose what they believe.

But that is where I think we have that line of one side or the other.

I believe in the Justice system. WE have to presume innocence and it has to be proven that someone is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. If there is no proof and only emotion reigns then we lose as a society.

I am so sorry that TM is gone. I am sorry that this happened but I see this as a happenstance of misery. They collided and TM overpowered GZ proven by his injuries and he shot to save his person. It did not have to be scared to the point of death, But I do believe that GZ believed he may die at the hand of TM and he shot him in self defense. That is what the issue is. Did GZ have enough evidence in that moment to think he was going to be done great harm. That is all the law states.. He had a right to protect his person.
.................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Yes, emotions play a part in all this.. In fact, emotions played a part in GZ following TM, emotions played a part in GZ shooting TM, emotions played a part in TM fighting for his life, IMO. We are all here because of our emotions. If I didn't have any emotions, I would not care what happens, then again not caring is also a emotion. :twocents:

But emotions don't prove a case. They are just heart pains. I think we all have them for TM and his family.
But we need facts that prove someone has committed MURDER. Not a killed someone, But committed murder to send them to jail. I have seen too many innocents go to prison and have their life ruined. I think we need to be really careful.

This has to be about fact. Not the emotion. OMO

 

[Chris_Texas]

A lot of what you state as fact is not. In fact it is your perception of events.. Even starting with it is your opinion, It sounds like you are stating facts in evidence. We don't know many of the things you say in that post. IT is all your OPINION.

Let's review. My statements (all prefaced by saying it was my opinion):

The only evidence for self defense is Zimmerman's word and judgement... both of which have been shown to be false and questionable.

Fact. GZ is claiming that he NEEDED to shoot TM.

Despite Z's claim, Martin was not under the influence of drugs. Despite Z's claim, Martin did not have anything wrong with him, nor was he up to no good.

Fact. Martin was not on drugs, there was not "something wrong with him" as GZ claimed, and when confronted on this point GZ was unable to elaborate as to why he had said these things.

Despite Z's claim, Martin almost certainly did not return from behind the buildings at the T to circle Z's truck in a threatening manner.

Fact. This is the most preposterous thing GZ said the entire time. More, there is simply no way in hell this actually happened -- there wasn't time, GZ never mentioned it during his 911 call, Martin's friend didn't mention it, and it doesn't fit in with the rest of the story. GZ was making this up on the fly.

Despite Z's claim, Martin almost certainly did not approach Z with his hand in his waistband, then while holding something in his hand.

Questionable. Remember, TM ran away seconds after GZ made this claim on the phone. Note as well that while this was supposedly going on, what was REALLY happening was that Martin was talking on the phone with his friend.

Despite Z's claim, it is unbelievable that Z's did not remember the street name, and even more unbelievable that he was searching behind the buildings for a house number.

Questionable. Zimmerman was chasing Martin, trying to either detain him or to see where he went.

Despite Z's claim to the contrary, we know from the location of the fight that Z continued to pursue Martin all the way to the point of the fight.

Fact. The fight did not occur at the T intersection.


Despite Z's claim we know that Martin did not knock Z down and begin pounding his head on the sidewalk at the T intersection.

Fact. The fight did not occur at the T intersection.

Despite Z's claim, we know that Martin did not punch him in the face twenty times, or smother him, or muffle his cries, and it is questionable whether his head ever hit the sidewalk at all.

Fact. His face does not show the injuries even a fraction of this number of blows would cause. We know TM never tried to choke or smother him as there is no blood or DNA on TM's hands. There is no evidence that GZs head ever hit the sidewalk.

We know that there was a fight of some kind.

Fact. There was at least a scuffle of some kind.

We don't know who started it, we don't know who was winning, but we do know that neither party was particularly injured prior to the gunshot.

All facts. We do not know who touched who first. We do not know based on evidence who was winning. We DO know that neither party was particularly injured prior to GZ shooting TM.

We know that Zimmerman apparently never even tried to physically defend himself.

We know this from the physical evidence and GZs statements. We do not know WHY, but we can speculate.

We know that Martin was scared and had tried to avoid the fight altogether.

Fact. Both GZ and a witness confirm that Martin fled and Zimmerman pursued. The witness testified that Martin was frightened -- and he had good reason.

We know, based on physical evidence and witness testimony, that Zimmerman pursued Martin over and over and over again. He pursued him when he entered the property, he pursued at the clubhouse, he pursued down Twin Tree lane, he pursued him between the buildings, he pursued until they met.

Fact. Zimmerman admits to all of this up to the T intersection, and we know from the location of the fight that GZ continued to pursue him even there. We know this from both the physical evidence and witness testimony.

At SOME point Zimmerman must advance some kind of evidence to support his claim that this was self-defense. He's the one making this claim, and his team needs to support it in some way. So far they have not done so. So far all we have is the statement of a guy with (at best) terrible judgement and a track record for lying.

Fact.

Some people seem to forget that there is a dead kid, GZ shot him, and he has the OBLIGATION to present a reasonable justification for doing so. GZ told his story to the police, but as the evidence piled up it has become increasingly apparent that the story he told is full of inconsistencies.

The State's job here is not proving beyond a reasonable doubt that there was a crime -- we KNOW there was a crime. It is there job to show, beyond a reasonable doubt, that Zimmerman's excuse for committing this crime, his story, has holes in it.

IMO etc

 

[tsitra01]

But he does not know that. He has no idea if people are out there watching or the police are there or what. That lends to credibility because he did not even know TM was dead immediately. He was not intent on killing him. Just stopping him. He gave statements knowing the people could have been watching..
To me that speaks loudly for a truthful statement.

OMO

GZ shot Travon point blank and claims he thought Travon just heard a shot when he exclaimed "you got me". This wanna a be cop thought he could create his "story" because it was happening in the dark and that is exactly what he did .He treated Travon as a suspect as soon as he saw him. GZ has shown he can lie with a straight face and did so to a Judge. IN MY OPINION

 

[barrysgirl]

But TM wasn't one of those people.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

and how was he to know that? There had been robberies and he sees a man, in a hoodie, walking slowly in the rain looking at homes. Any reasonable person would find that suspect, IMO.

 

[Just K]

Judge Nelson: "You have exactly five minutes."

 

[Tricia]

They have them, along with TM's Facebook page and Twitter Account.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-ma...merman-defense/story?id=17517884#.UdLsJPlJMSY

Please keep in mind George Zimmerman knew NOTHING about Trayvon when he shot him other than what he observed.

This is why the judge won't allow them in. George knew nothing about Tryavon so this information does not fact in George's decision making process.

 

[barrysgirl]

Idk, I have no idea what the media did with the NEN tape. I have never her the doctored version.

But that has nothing to so with GZ's different accounts if what happened.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If you heard the tape on NBC, MSNBC, CNN then you heard the doctored versions. It's easy to search out the undoctored version or just listen to the 911 tape from the trial. NBC has been busted numerous times doctoring/editing tapes for ratings. It's out there, easy to find.