George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General discussion

[2Hip2BSquare]

Defense is showing how much larger Trayvon was than George. I can say, from the looks of things especially when George was thinner, I can almost assume Trayvon would have given him a good whooping and had the upper hand in the physical altercation.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I actually have put dinner in the crock pot, put a load of laundry in the wash and hung up a shower curtain in the kids bathroom. Not too shabby

Good for you.. I am actually thinking about what dinner is.. Does that count???

So glad to see them back after a good lunch break!

 

[katiewonders]

I still don't get what makes Trayvon suspicious. Wearing a hoodie is not suspicious. Being black is not suspicious. He had every right and reason to be in that townhouse complex, he was visiting his dads girlfriend and son.

WHAT made him suspicious. I didn't get it on the tape and i don't get it now. Unless it simply came down to color which i don't want to believe.

Remember RZ was a citizen patrol captain person and there were numerous home burglaries in which (for some, anyway) witnesses reported African American juvenile males standing nearby the home. What made TM suspicious to RZ was his was an African American juvenile male who looked like he didn't live in the neighborhood and might be "casing" homes for burglary. Nothing about TM would look suspicious to you or me, but we have to consider what was in RZ's mind/experience. Moo.

 

[JudyBolton]

Have you all seen the photos of GZ the day after? There are 2 little pin pricks on his nose.

Are you looking at the same photos I'm looking at? His nose looks pretty bad to me - on the one side there is a huge bump (looks broken to my untrained eye) and there is some blood. When someone is hit with a fist - there would not be open wounds like you would have with a knife - the injures are internal -

 

[Horace Finklestein]

I still don't get what makes Trayvon suspicious. Wearing a hoodie is not suspicious. Being black is not suspicious. He had every right and reason to be in that townhouse complex, he was visiting his dads girlfriend and son.

WHAT made him suspicious. I didn't get it on the tape and i don't get it now. Unless it simply came down to color which i don't want to believe.

GZ stated pretty clearly why he thought TM was suspicious imo.

 

[cityslick]

OK...you are on GZ's side, right? LOL!!

Cause you just helped prove my case. He wasn't even "on duty". So the fact that he is following someone, with a loaded gun, for "not appearing right" in his eyes...and then killed them...when he wasn't even on the job so to speak?

Where is the personal responsibility to NOT PUT YOURSELF IN A SITUATION WHERE YOU MIGHT BE HURT OR HAVE TO DEFEND YOURSELF???

You don't get to pass judgment on someone and decide they are doing something wrong...and then approach them for what you think is wrong...unless you have been given the authority to do so!!!

The point though is none of that is against the law. Walking up to someone and asking who you are is not against the law and not what he's on trial for.

If you are on the ground and someone is beating on you and you have a genuine fear of your life, you have the right to defend yourself. You may not like that law, but it is the law in Florida. That's what this trial is about, was GZ really afraid for his life.

 

[iluvmua]

<modsnip>

Cause you just helped prove my case. He wasn't even "on duty". So the fact that he is following someone, with a loaded gun, for "not appearing right" in his eyes...and then killed them...when he wasn't even on the job so to speak?

Where is the personal responsibility to NOT PUT YOURSELF IN A SITUATION WHERE YOU MIGHT BE HURT OR HAVE TO DEFEND YOURSELF???

You don't get to pass judgment on someone and decide they are doing something wrong...and then approach them for what you think is wrong...unless you have been given the authority to do so!!!

yes, as of now I'm on his side. He followed him to see where he went and to get a street address.

He had no choice because his nose was broken and he was having his head smashed against the pavement.

He did what he had to do in order to save his life.

 

[kaRN]

Defense indicate the seemingly flat affect he had after altercation is because of shock - of just being beat up and having to shoot someone in self defense.

And his flat affect since? Sorry but I can't watch or hear the trial today.

 

[daisy7]

And a dispatcher is not a police officer. I don't think you have any obligation to listen to what the dispatcher says since it's not against the law to get out of your car to see where someone is walking.

I haven't read anything that suggests that GZ was breaking the law by not following the dispatcher's advice (suggestion, whatever you want to call it). But, if I'm calling LE, I would surely follow their direction. JMO

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

Ok defense is showing pictures of Zimmerman at scene and his nose WAS bloody and visibly SWOLLEN.

Defense says Zimmerman never sought a lawyer and was completely compliant with police.

He cleaned up before the pictures were taken I believe the Defense is saying?

Defense is about to touch on what the paramedic at the scene said to police about GZ's physical state, despite GZ trying to downplay the severity of his wounds to the police. Paramedic says GZ should go to Hospital bc of head trauma, and the police basically turned down the paramedics suggestion and take GZ to station.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

<modsnip>

Cause you just helped prove my case. He wasn't even "on duty". So the fact that he is following someone, with a loaded gun, for "not appearing right" in his eyes...and then killed them...when he wasn't even on the job so to speak?

Where is the personal responsibility to NOT PUT YOURSELF IN A SITUATION WHERE YOU MIGHT BE HURT OR HAVE TO DEFEND YOURSELF???

You don't get to pass judgment on someone and decide they are doing something wrong...and then approach them for what you think is wrong...unless you have been given the authority to do so!!!

He was fulfilling his responsibility as a liaison. There were break ins in the area, and he thought TM looked suspicious. He certainly was within his rights to do what he did and he was trying to be responsible by calling non-emergency 9-11.

 

[gxm]

Unless you innocently just shot someone??? I would be like "OMG! I was being attacked and I shot someone! GET HELP NOW!!!!!!!!!"

My personal experience from a brutal attack with my head being smashed into a hard tile floor was to run when someone finally pulled my attacker off of me. I don't necessarily think any two people would react the same. Some might run, some might scream for help, some might break down in tears, etc. But IMO, most people will be in a state of shock though we all probably express shock differently. JMO, OMO, MOO, etc.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

<modsnip>

Cause you just helped prove my case. He wasn't even "on duty". So the fact that he is following someone, with a loaded gun, for "not appearing right" in his eyes...and then killed them...when he wasn't even on the job so to speak?

Where is the personal responsibility to NOT PUT YOURSELF IN A SITUATION WHERE YOU MIGHT BE HURT OR HAVE TO DEFEND YOURSELF???

You don't get to pass judgment on someone and decide they are doing something wrong...and then approach them for what you think is wrong...unless you have been given the authority to do so!!!

I think he has a permit to carry and was doing that legally. I think that he was off duty but noticed TM standing on a neighbor's lawn in the rain and it was suspicious as it would be to you or me in the same context.

 

[katiewonders]

He was standing around! I stand around all the time outside my place, walk on the road looking about. imo

Are you an African American juvenile male standing around near homes in a community in which several home burglaries were made - and some witnesses reported to have seen African American juvenile males standing near the homes? All MOO

 

[daisy7]

Under Florida law, one only has to be in reasonable fear of their live in order to use self defense.

GZ should not have to wait until he was nearly killed before pulling out his gun in order to save his life.

I find it interesting that GZ is not using a Stand Your Ground defense. He could have had a court appearance about SYG, and possibly get the charge dismissed, but he didn't. I have to wonder why.

 

[SilkySifaka]

Remember RZ was a citizen patrol captain person and there were numerous home burglaries in which (for some, anyway) witnesses reported African American juvenile males standing nearby the home. What made TM suspicious to RZ was his was an African American juvenile male who looked like he didn't live in the neighborhood and might be "casing" homes for burglary. Nothing about TM would look suspicious to you or me, but we have to consider what was in RZ's mind/experience. Moo.

why wouldn't an AA juvenile male belong in the area????? He did belong there!!!! He was visiting his fathers girlfriend. There is absolutely no argument that can be made except for color and that is the crux of this whole case imo. If he was blonde haired we wouldn't have the idea he was suspicious in the first place.

ETA and that is the elephant in the room because none of his actions leading up to the shooting can be justified imo. Maybe a phone call if he is biased and thinking an AA kid standing outside is suspicious, but not following, not stalking, not shooting.

As far as TM goes, I would fight someone following me on a dark night too.

There are burglaries committed by white people too but no one names them suspicious because they are standing outside.

IN NO WAY am i saying anyone on either side is racist except perhaps for the defendant. Just that color is what caused this whole thing,based on a biased attitude by GZ. I would bet my house and my cats it wouldn't have happened if Trayvon was white.

 

[joypath]

They both would have wounds to reflect that then. Does anyone know who the ME is in this case?

BBM: Shipping Bao, M.D. board certified in anatomical, clinical & forensic pathology. VCMO employee.


post report: http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2012/images/05/17/trayvon.martin.autopsy.pdf

 

[kaRN]

What advice? Because from what I understand he had already stopped following and was heading back to his car. I don't see how this could have been anything but following instructions.

The advice given after GX was asked if he was following him and responded yes and the dispatcher said 'we don't need you to do that'.
Wow did the HLN re-enactment ever get it wrong then, because I have to admit that's where I got my timeline from. I'll go and avail myself of the Sunshine laws and do some reading.

 

[iluvmua]

I find it interesting that GZ is not using a Stand Your Ground defense. He could have had a court appearance about SYG, and possibly get the charge dismissed, but he didn't. I have to wonder why.

GZ didn't have anywhere to escape to, so that is why the stand your ground was not used.

 

[i.b.nora]

I wish we could have a "no discussion" live trial thread for those of us who are at work and would simply like to know what is going on at the trial because we can't listen to it live.

Just saying.

You can get live written updates here:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/...-trial-opening-statements_n_3489713.html#blog