George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General discussion

[ScarlettScarpetta]

why wouldn't an AA juvenile male belong in the area????? He did belong there!!!! He was visiting his fathers girlfriend. There is absolutely no argument that can be made except for color and that is the crux of this whole case imo. If he was blonde haired we wouldn't have the idea he was suspicious in the first place.

There are burglaries committed by white people too but no one names them suspicious because they are standing outside.

IN NO WAY am i saying anyone on either side is racist except perhaps for the defendant. Just that color is what caused this whole thing,based on a biased attitude by GZ. I would bet my house and my cats it wouldn't have happened if Trayvon was white.

There is no way I see this as anything about race. I think that it was about break ins and that GZ saw TM standing there where he knew he did not belong. If I saw a blonde guy standing on my neighbors lawn at night in the rain, You bet I am calling the police. You bet I am going to be suspicious.

 

[ohiogirl]

I wish we could have a "no discussion" live trial thread for those of us who are at work and would simply like to know what is going on at the trial because we can't listen to it live.

Just saying.

Try this.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/...-trial-opening-statements_n_3489713.html#blog

 

[gxm]

I find it interesting that GZ is not using a Stand Your Ground defense. He could have had a court appearance about SYG, and possibly get the charge dismissed, but he didn't. I have to wonder why.

I do too. I'm sure there must be a strategic reason for it. Maybe because there is so much "controversy" regarding SYG but not as much regarding self defense? And given that this case is already so controversial, GZ's legal team decided that adding more controversy would not be wise?

 

[SilkySifaka]

Are you an African American juvenile male standing around near homes in a community in which several home burglaries were made - and some witnesses reported to have seen African American juvenile males standing near the homes? All MOO

what makes an AA kid suspicious apart from color is my whole point. He had every right to be there, it was not suspicious at all. Unless someone wants to suggest all AA's are suspicious

 

[especiallyheather]

why wouldn't an AA juvenile male belong in the area????? He did belong there!!!! He was visiting his fathers girlfriend.

Yet, there were numerous break ins involving AA males, if I am remembering correctly. That is what I am gathering from the OS, and is being used as the reason Zimmerman thought Trayvon was acting suspicious.

JMO...

 

[Horace Finklestein]

why wouldn't an AA juvenile male belong in the area????? He did belong there!!!! He was visiting his fathers girlfriend. There is absolutely no argument that can be made except for color and that is the crux of this whole case imo. If he was blonde haired we wouldn't have the idea he was suspicious in the first place.

ETA and that is the elephant in the room because none of his actions leading up to the shooting can be justified imo. Maybe a phone call if he is biased and thinking an AA kid standing outside is suspicious, but not following, not stalking, not shooting.

As far as TM goes, I would fight someone following me on a dark night too.

There are burglaries committed by white people too but no one names them suspicious because they are standing outside.

IN NO WAY am i saying anyone on either side is racist except perhaps for the defendant. Just that color is what caused this whole thing,based on a biased attitude by GZ. I would bet my house and my cats it wouldn't have happened if Trayvon was white.

There's no evidence that GZ would have ignored a white/blonde haired kid acting in what he considered a suspicious manner. He didn't stalk him and he was attacked.

 

[SilkySifaka]

There is no way I see this as anything about race. I think that it was about break ins and that GZ saw TM standing there where he knew he did not belong. If I saw a blonde guy standing on my neighbors lawn at night in the rain, You bet I am calling the police. You bet I am going to be suspicious.

But that is the point!! He DID BELONG. He was visiting his fathers gf. He had every right to walk outside to get some air.

 

[iluvmua]

why wouldn't an AA juvenile male belong in the area????? He did belong there!!!! He was visiting his fathers girlfriend. There is absolutely no argument that can be made except for color and that is the crux of this whole case imo. If he was blonde haired we wouldn't have the idea he was suspicious in the first place.

ETA and that is the elephant in the room because none of his actions leading up to the shooting can be justified imo. Maybe a phone call if he is biased and thinking an AA kid standing outside is suspicious, but not following, not stalking, not shooting.

As far as TM goes, I would fight someone following me on a dark night too.

There are burglaries committed by white people too but no one names them suspicious because they are standing outside.

IN NO WAY am i saying anyone on either side is racist except perhaps for the defendant. Just that color is what caused this whole thing,based on a biased attitude by GZ. I would bet my house and my cats it wouldn't have happened if Trayvon was white.

Have any evidence to back up that GZ is a racist? FBI investigated and concluded that GZ is not a racist.

 

[PaperDoll]

A young teenage is dead because GZ assumed TM was going to commit a crime. TM ran from GZ and GZ went after him. TM isn't here to defend himself against GZ and I believe TM was defending himself that night from GZ.

 

[corundogs]

HE was standing on the lawn of a neighbor of Georges. GZ knew he did not belong there. HE knew he did not live there yet there he was on a rainy night, Standing on his friends property. That is suspicious. It would be to me if I looked out and say someone standing on my neighbors lawn that did not belong there.

There were also recent break ins. It makes sense.

Then you call the police. And have them investigate. You don't leave your house with a loaded gun to find out what they are in fact up to.

Do you?

If the police can't find them, then obviously they are not committing a crime and no reason to demand to know what the guy was doing there. As far as I know, this was not a private complex that only residents were allowed to be on property, was it? Would TM have been charged with trespassing if the cops had found him that night?

But in hindsight, we KNOW TM did in fact belong there...and was unarmed. I guess people can break into someone's house without a weapon. Granted. But the police are on their way. If he gets into a house, they will find him and nothing will be stolen. Broken windows are fixable.

A 17 year old dead kid is NOT fixable.

And I will remind those who are feeling differently...again we KNOW GZ's thoughts about TM. He told us with his own words. He felt he was a F'ing Punk, and A'hole who always gets away.

So we do know what GZ was feeling that night. And we know how wrong he was. But he put himself in that position, so now he has to face the music.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

A young teenage is dead because GZ assumed TM was going to commit a crime. TM ran from GZ and GZ went after him. TM isn't here to defend himself against GZ and I believe TM was defending himself that night from GZ.

That is not in evidence. That is conjecture.

 

[SilkySifaka]

Yet, there were numerous break ins involving AA males, if I am remembering correctly. That is what I am gathering from the OS, and is being used as the reason Zimmerman thought Trayvon was acting suspicious.

JMO...

You can't make it open season on AA kids and shoot them. If you are going to follow them, expect a confrontation. No matter who you are following. But it isn't ok to be suspicious bc of someone based on color when they had every right to be in the neighborhood. If he had asked he would have found out.

 

[Tricia]

As long as the discussion stays civil we will allow this thread to continue.

We need your help in the "Real Time Trial" Thread.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9594852#post9594852"]Zimmerman Real Time Trial Thread Only - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

Please post in the above thread what is going on live in the trial so those who have to work can get caught up on the case.

Thank you.

Tricia

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Then you call the police. And have them investigate. You don't leave your house with a loaded gun to find out what they are in fact up to.

Do you?

If the police can't find them, then obviously they are not committing a crime and no reason to demand to know what the guy was doing there. As far as I know, this was not a private complex that only residents were allowed to be on property, was it? Would TM have been charged with trespassing if the cops had found him that night?

But in hindsight, we KNOW TM did in fact belong there...and was unarmed. I guess people can break into someone's house without a weapon. Granted. But the police are on their way. If he gets into a house, they will find him and nothing will be stolen. Broken windows are fixable.

A 17 year old dead kid is NOT fixable.

And I will remind those who are feeling differently...again we KNOW GZ's thoughts about TM. He told us with his own words. He felt he was a F'ing Punk, and A'hole who always gets away.

So we do know what GZ was feeling that night. And we know how wrong he was. But he put himself in that position, so now he has to face the music.

He did call police. He had his legal fire arm on him with a permit that he may have carried all the time. He did not go looking for the guy. He happened upon him. He did not leave his home to pursue him. TM is dead and that is a tragedy but that does not make the other person a murderer.

 

[iluvmua]

A young teenage is dead because GZ assumed TM was going to commit a crime. TM ran from GZ and GZ went after him. TM isn't here to defend himself against GZ and I believe TM was defending himself that night from GZ.

How was he defiding him self? he clearly had the upper hand.

TM could have made it back to the place where his father's gf lived long before GZ even got off the phone.

He was found 70 ft north of his father's gf's place.

only logical conclusion would be that TM either waited for GZ or he doubled back.

 

[katiewonders]

<modsnip>

Cause you just helped prove my case. He wasn't even "on duty". So the fact that he is following someone, with a loaded gun, for "not appearing right" in his eyes...and then killed them...when he wasn't even on the job so to speak?

Where is the personal responsibility to NOT PUT YOURSELF IN A SITUATION WHERE YOU MIGHT BE HURT OR HAVE TO DEFEND YOURSELF???

You don't get to pass judgment on someone and decide they are doing something wrong...and then approach them for what you think is wrong...unless you have been given the authority to do so!!!

I agree with you. RZ clearly absolutely went beyond what the police want NW volunteers to do. I think RZ was exasperated about the past several home burglaries and wanted to watch TM until the cops came. I don't think RZ took out the gun until his life was threatened, not because he thought TM was doing something wrong.

 

[raine1212]

Try this.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/...-trial-opening-statements_n_3489713.html#blog

We are working on this now

 

[Reader]

This defense attorney is going way past an opening statement to me...IMO...he is arguing the case and evidence. This makes me think that Zimmerman is not going to testify since the attorney is saying what he would say. Can't believe the judge is allowing all of this, or that the prosecutors haven't objected.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

A young teenage is dead because GZ assumed TM was going to commit a crime. TM ran from GZ and GZ went after him. TM isn't here to defend himself against GZ and I believe TM was defending himself that night from GZ.

Well no, he's dead because he attacked GZ and GZ defended himself. TM did not run away.

 

[PaperDoll]

That is not in evidence. That is conjecture.

The non-emergency call that GZ made said TM was running, GZ got out of his car to find him. Why would TM want to get away? It's in the call GZ made.