George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General discussion

[tinkabella]

The thing is, It was raining. GZ says that he was not simply walking home. He was standing on his friends property in the rain. That is not what most people would do. They would walk home quickly to get out of the rain. He was standing there on someone else's lawn where he did not belong. And GZ knew that.

George has an extreme credibility problem, I'm not taking anything he says as the gospel. Trayvon is dead, we dont have his story, we are left with someone who has issues with credibility. Before I go out on a limb and believe every self serving statement from george.

 

[kaRN]

That's how I took it. It's not as if he knew TM and was saying he personally was a punk.

No he profiled him as a punk. Is that better?

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

Defense stating that GZ's nose was never x-rated bc well... They didn't have proper machines for cranial X-rays. I'm. CT scan? No CT scan?

That is not right! They did not document GZ's wounds and they allowed him to clean himself up before they took pictures for evidence AND they neglected the EMT's recommendation that GZ go to the hospital for head trauma!

 

[SilkySifaka]

If his dad lived there why didn't he call his dad. He had his cell phone. Did he indicate to is girlfriend he was scared or worried? I wonder what she heard on the phone when the confrontation began. ty

because like most children he believed he could handle it. Kids do that. It doesn't warrant a death sentence.

 

[especiallyheather]

My understanding is he was on the clubhouse property and I think everyone is allowed to be there. A black teenager was gunned down, imo in cold blood at the least for no good reason. He had his gun for a reason and planned to use it. Its a double action so it wasn't just panic that made him shoot. Is everyone in the states reaction to fisticuffs to shoot someone dead??????

He had a concealed weapons permit and which gives him the ability to have it on him at all times.

 

[katiewonders]

Funny...when I was a kid running around in an unfamiliar neighborbood, there would always be an older person who watched us or chased us away...Is that a crime now?

Oh, the good 'ole days. We had "eyes in the sky" even in our own neighborhood, all of the other moms watched us and didn't hesitate to correct us and then 'report' to our moms if we were doing something we shouldn't have been doing. We got "corrected" again.

 

[tinkabella]

Funny...when I was a kid running around in an unfamiliar neighborbood, there would always be an older person who watched us or chased us away...Is that a crime now?

its only a crime if he shot you dead after assuming you were up to no good and suspicious. And since you're posting here I say its not a crime. This is two different scenarios. you made it home, trayvon didnt.

 

[iluvmua]

I was not going to post on this thread given the strong emotions and clear division of opinions around this case. I have no thought one way or the other on whether or not a crime was truly committed here, but I do have an opinion that GZ used extremely poor judgement in the situation. If it was me:

1. I would not be toting a loaded gun to go shopping at Target. Who does that?
2. If I saw something I thought was suspicious, I would call LE and then leave it up to the professionals to handle it.
3. I would not put myself in a situation that would put me at risk in order to save someone else's "property", or my own for that matter. Property can be replaced, lives can't.

MOO, and I respect everyone's difference of opinion. I'll go back to lurking now :blushing:

Someone who has a legal concealed carry permit.

I would to but unfortunately, that is not what GZ did.

 

[LaLaw2000]

I'm not sure if we are talking about the same same case Apparently, I didn't get the memo that NW "liaisons" are supposed to drive around the neighborhood with a holstered weapon and a bullet ready to shoot an unarmed teenager.

Right on, daisy7.

ETA: My late husband was a retired police officer. He has talked about how these neighborhood watch people may or may not be reliable and sometimes the wrong person can be involved in the watch program. MOO

Neighborhood Watch is a very good and important thing to have. There is one in my neighborhood as well. One thing that is stressed is not to go after anyone and certainly not to carry a firearm. Watch, look, report, and stay safe yourself!

 

[JudyBolton]

My understanding is he was on the clubhouse property and I think everyone is allowed to be there. A black teenager was gunned down, imo in cold blood at the least for no good reason. He had his gun for a reason and planned to use it. Its a double action so it wasn't just panic that made him shoot. Is everyone in the states reaction to fisticuffs to shoot someone dead??????

Anyone who carries a gun "plans to use it" if they need to defend themselves - That is the whole point of carrying a gun - to protect your life and your possessions from criminals.

Fisticuffs sounds like a bland term....having your head bashed into concrete is something all together different....

Yes - what you've heard about us here "in the states" is all true....

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

George has an extreme credibility problem, I'm not taking anything he says as the gospel. Trayvon is dead, we dont have his story, we are left with someone who has issues with credibility. Before I go out on a limb and believe every self serving statement from george.

Well we will see. I am hoping for some black and white evidence.
I think this is the first case in a long time that I just don't know. Seacat, Arias all obvious guilty people...

This one, Not so much. I am hoping to get more clarity as the days go.

 

[SilkySifaka]

So if someone was following you, you would decide to confront this person?

(just asking a general question, not aimed at you).

That's what any reasonable person would do or call the police etc. not turn around and try to teach some guy a lesson which is what TM wanted to do based on evidence.

I don't know. It would depend on size differential, how scared i was, if i had any decent encounters with police (don't know that area and if it is known for profiling). I can see lots of times i would turn around to confront rather than call for help if i thought someone was stalking me as a male. Probably not as a female. Decking the guy who is following you on a dark night seems pretty reasonable to me. Shooting him isn't.

 

[corundogs]

Snipped for space..


He didnt leave his house, he was in his car when he noticed trayvon. He had a concealed weapons permit, which leads one to assume he carries the gun everywhere. There had been numerous break ins in the neighborhood by AA males. Zimmerman was on the Neighborhood watch team so he had privy to this information.


Not necessarily...


You are absolutely correct. Yet no one would have been able to tell if Trayvon had a weapon on him.


That is a matter of interpretation. One could also say that he was referring to the recent break ins that are unsolved involving AA males, and he thought Trayvon was one of them.

Again, I am not defending anyone, I am still on the fence regarding this case. I am simply trying to keep the facts straight.

When I said about leaving your house, I was responding to Scarlett. She said if she saw someone being suspicious on her neighbor's lawn, she would go out and investigate to see what he was doing there.

That's what I said about "leaving your house". I know what GZ was doing and where he was.

 

[SilkySifaka]

Anyone who carries a gun "plans to use it" if they need to defend themselves - That is the whole point of carrying a gun - to protect your life and your possessions from criminals.

Fisticuffs sounds like a bland term....having your head bashed into concrete is something all together different....

Yes - what you've heard about us here "in the states" is all true....

I am surprised the morgues have room for people who die of illness or old age. It flabbergasts me that you can walk around killing people for how they look.

 

[cityslick]

because like most children he believed he could handle it. Kids do that. It doesn't warrant a death sentence.

You can't just start a fight with someone because they talk to you funny/are following you and start wailing on that person. If you wind up getting shot as a result, the person that shot you isn't going to charged with murder.

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

Howdy folks!!!
uuuuuuuummmm.. is it me? or is the defense giving a closing argument rather than an opening argument? Sure sounds like it to me!!! JMHO

The defense is spotty, but I do like how they are trying to show from the get go that the police did not document GZ's injuries properly and neglected EMT's push to get GZ to the hospital for head trauma. He's just trying to bolster up Zimmerman's credibility by noting that Zimmerman complied completely with a police force that did not return the same respect by documenting the severity of GZ's injuries properly.

It is VERY shakey. ESP the knock knock joke. Why?!?!?!?

 

[corundogs]

Howdy folks!!!
uuuuuuuummmm.. is it me? or is the defense giving a closing argument rather than an opening argument? Sure sounds like it to me!!! JMHO

LOL!! Apparently, the judge agrees wholeheartedly with you! LOL!!

 

[kaRN]

From my understanding, this is an apartment like complex.

Most people don't "own" the lawn areas - they are in fact public areas. Even if they are in front of your unit.

There's public walkways behind those houses too, separating the backyards. I can't speak for Florida but here, the municipality technically owns X number of feet from the sidewalk and can place fire hydrants there, trim trees that block the sidewalk etc. and the property owner has to comply.

 

[popsicle]

George has an extreme credibility problem, I'm not taking anything he says as the gospel. Trayvon is dead, we dont have his story, we are left with someone who has issues with credibility. Before I go out on a limb and believe every self serving statement from george.

TM has issues as well, the evidence found on his phone, it just won't be coming before the jury.

 

[Jane Jetson]

Yes. And I think that was a ridiculous way to open. To me it says this particular lawyer is out of touch with the gravity of the case. MOO.

Ah, he must've read my post - he just apologized!