Gilgo Beach LISK Serial Killer, Rex Heuermann, charged with 3 murders, July 2023

[Ruminations]

I also don't want to argue. John Ray is a private attorney with a vested interest in this case. If others here don't agree that the SCPC shouldn't be standing next to him at a press conference discussing witness information that hasn't even been properly vetted by LE...well, I honestly don't know what to say to that. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

I got that. But when we have to choose between getting information with the private attorney taint (which is real- I am a huge Ray fan, but in spite of his commitment to ethics, he is on a side and tainted) mitigated by Harrison or not mitigated by Harrison, I'll take mitigated every time.

We can agree to agree on this: a private attorney representing victims is not ideal as a primary investigator.

But it's what we have, and I am very thankful, because the ideal institution for investigating has dropped it or worse.

MOO

 

[Baby baby Jane]

Peter Hackett also has a prosthetic leg, I’m guessing not the Oscar Pistorius blade runner type as they say he would not be able to chase SG through swamp, reeds & tough terrain. They say he has pronounced limp. Also claim he has a heart problems & pacemaker.

 

[WINDSOR]

The information I would be most interested in regarding Shannan learning is how Peter Hackett is involved that night when Shannan was last heard from. How on earth did he have her mom's phone number? Did Shannan stay at his house for some period? What PH at Joe Brewer's home and took her phone to get the number at some point? Flabbergasting.

I know he's been cleared, but I have been listening again to old episodes of podcasts and the reactions of Brit and Ashley are right on. Who the heck is PH in SG's story?
SERIAL KILLER: L.I.S.K. | Crime Junkie Podcast

Dr. Peter Hackett has admitted treating Shannan that night in his home. He claims he got Mari's (Shannan's mother) phone number from Shannan's boyfriend when the boyfriend came out to Oak Beach with Michael Pak, looking for Shannan. I believe the boyfriend's name is Alex Diaz, and had previously broken Shannan's jaw in a domestic dispute!

I find it somewhat incredulous that Pak and Diaz would just randomly locate Hackett in their visit to Oak Beach, and ask Hackett to call Mari. At least Pak must have had some interaction with Hackett previously in my opinion.

 

[waldojabba]

Attorney for Rex Heuermann's Wife Responds to 'Swinger Parties' Allegation

The attorney representing Rex Heuermann's life called information about 'swingers parties' at the couple's house a lie.

www.courttv.com

 

[Sundog]

And this is exactly why I am flabbergasted that Harrison agreed to do this press conference. By his own admission, LE hasn't vetted the information these witnesses have brought forward, and yet here is the SCPC standing there, appearing to lend credibility to these accounts. There was absolutely no benefit to the investigation by doing this presser, and there is everything to lose in terms of Harrison's reputation should any of this info turn out to be mistaken, unverifiable, or straight up BS.

JMO

Well said.

 

[Ruminations]

Peter Hackett also has a prosthetic leg, I’m guessing not the Oscar Pistorius blade runner type as they say he would not be able to chase SG through swamp, reeds & tough terrain. They say he has pronounced limp. Also claim he has a heart problems & pacemaker.

He's lying about something. I don't think that your skepticism that the scenario above as a viable theory means we stop exploring Peter Hack's behavior.

Also, we have no idea how Shannan got to where she was found, and if she got there alive or dead.

The theory that she was chased to death does not hold as a complete story to me either, by Hackett or anyone, because her pants and shoes were off. Tight jeans don't come off during a chase.

MOO

 

[Ruminations]

Maybe effort on Harrison/LE to send message to public that police will consider all witnesses / evidence. If Harrison stands there, he doesn’t need to have his own presser to “address” Mr Ray statements and criticisms. Ray doesn’t get to criticize LE if they are in the room, Harrison giving appearance of being all on the same team by just standing there.

Yes, it mitigates the issue Kat highlighted.

 

[Ruminations]

Attorney for Rex Heuermann's Wife Responds to 'Swinger Parties' Allegation

The attorney representing Rex Heuermann's life called information about 'swingers parties' at the couple's house a lie.

www.courttv.com

What a surprise... not!

Still wish I knew who is paying for this not-a-felon-thanks - to-Spota. It feels to me, in my opinion, which in no way is as relevant as AE's opinion about this, that this man is really representing the people who wanted to bury this investigation.

MOO

 

[snarast]

The information I would be most interested in regarding Shannan learning is how Peter Hackett is involved that night when Shannan was last heard from. How on earth did he have her mom's phone number? Did Shannan stay at his house for some period? What PH at Joe Brewer's home and took her phone to get the number at some point? Flabbergasting.

I know he's been cleared, but I have been listening again to old episodes of podcasts and the reactions of Brit and Ashley are right on. Who the heck is PH in SG's story?
SERIAL KILLER: L.I.S.K. | Crime Junkie Podcast

Oh yeah - this is just absolutely crazy stuff - I've decided (for myself) the most parsimonious solution is that Peter Hackett is somehow weird - meaning that he was either 1) involved and/or 2) has an uncanny ability to somehow find out everything about everybody and enjoys surprising or evoking strong emotions in people. Kind of like RH, really, from some statements.

 

[Baby baby Jane]

He definitely has a propensity for inserting himself in situations , grandiose behavior and exaggeration..is PH still
off limits ? I know he is in litigation civilly,

mOO

 

[CuriousCricket]

Oh yeah - this is just absolutely crazy stuff - I've decided (for myself) the most parsimonious solution is that Peter Hackett is somehow weird - meaning that he was either 1) involved and/or 2) has an uncanny ability to somehow find out everything about everybody and enjoys surprising or evoking strong emotions in people. Kind of like RH, really, from some statements.

The picture forming in my mind is a "swinging-hunting" party in which a (perhaps naked) SW is turned loose in an area, given a "head start", then "hunted". It could be a group or solitary sport. I can't help wondering how many SW vanished without ever being missed or reported.

edited to reference:Richard Connell’s short story "The Most Dangerous Game" created the now-common trope in which humans are hunted by other humans for sport. It is one of the most influential and adapted short stories of all time, having gone through countless iterations in both film and television since its initial release in 1924. The Continuing Appeal of Richard Connell’s ‘The Most Dangerous Game’

also additional thoughts: if guns were ever used, that might explain the dismemberment ("field dressing" and the removal of a bullet as the killer(s) was aware of ballistics)

The depravity we are seeing in some of the "characters" involved in this story leads me to speculate that a person(s) deciding to see what fun it might be to hunt humans cannot be ruled out.

 

[minazoe]

The picture forming in my mind is a "swinging-hunting" party in which a (perhaps naked) SW is turned loose in an area, given a "head start", then "hunted". It could be a group or solitary sport. I can't help wondering how many SW vanished without ever being missed or reported.

it sounds crazy but, it has happened before...maybe not in a group...but, one thing is clear to me..it is about 85 % probable in my mind that someone is lying about events that took place...multiple points in this story do not add up. they need to go back to the very beginning...how she got booked out there? who was there at that location...how many men met Shannen that night? what happened in Brewers house that night? we already know PH lies his head off about the whole thing..

I really believe that a bunch of lies have been told from the get go. mOO

 

[WINDSOR]

Minazoe said
"it is about 85 % probable in my mind that someone is lying about events that took place"

I would say 100%! Pak for sure; Hackett has already admitted lying; Brewer took the fifth to avoid perjury.
IMO

 

[CuriousCricket]

it sounds crazy but, it has happened before...maybe not in a group...but, one thing is clear to me..it is about 85 % probable in my mind that someone is lying about events that took place...multiple points in this story do not add up. they need to go back to the very beginning...how she got booked out there? who was there at that location...how many men met Shannen that night? what happened in Brewers house that night? we already know PH lies his head off about the whole thing..

I really believe that a bunch of lies have been told from the get go. mOO

I would think a solitary hunting trip happened more frequently. But we do have both Shannan Gilbert (no one seems to know how many were involved) and the swinger party with Karen Vergata, who seems to have been left alone with the Heuermann family, according to info at the press conference. From the things Shannan was saying, I'm curious to know if word of such parties might have been getting around on the SW circuit. IS there a SW circuit?

 

[Betty P]

The information I would be most interested in regarding Shannan learning is how Peter Hackett is involved that night when Shannan was last heard from. How on earth did he have her mom's phone number? Did Shannan stay at his house for some period? What PH at Joe Brewer's home and took her phone to get the number at some point? Flabbergasting.

I know he's been cleared, but I have been listening again to old episodes of podcasts and the reactions of Brit and Ashley are right on. Who the heck is PH in SG's story?
SERIAL KILLER: L.I.S.K. | Crime Junkie Podcast

I'm not sure what he's been cleared of, but Suffolk PD are still claiming Shannan's death was accidental/no foul play. The second autopsy has already shown her death was definitely suspicious, so. JMO Hackett's involvement is still an open question.

 

[Ruminations]

I'm not sure what he's been cleared of, but Suffolk PD are still claiming Shannan's death was accidental/no foul play. The second autopsy has already shown her death was definitely suspicious, so. JMO Hackett's involvement is still an open question.

Lol, that is part of the absurdity that has gone on for over a decade!

Shannan, a person who was not in a position to call LE, does so anyway to say people are after her, then dies of "misadventure." Yeah, right.

How many sex workers call 911 for any reason? Now many people (any line of work) call 911 to say they are trying to kill me, then die by accident immediately afterwards?

How many drug addled or psychotic people are able to think of calling 911 to force people who are trying to harm her to not do so while the call is connected, beg people who are harming her for their lives (politely), convey to block-headed 911 dispatchers that they're in danger but do not know their location (politely), while necessarily screaming on the top of their lungs, running after pulling and all nighter, and banging on neighborhood doors all at the same time?

It is absurd to think Shannan in particular had had a break from reality, given her rationality recorded by the 911 dispatchers. But, if she were irrational, how often Is it that people who are drug addled or psychotic become immune to being murdered because of it?

How many police departments are forced to keep evidence close to their chest for a non-investigation? They never called Shannan's death a homicide, which seems obviously the case, did not investigate it per Harrison, yet would not release the 911 tapes because they were related to an investigation??! Yeah, right.

Then, how is it that persons who should have been detained the minute LE saw them, but were not, can run around saying they are "cleared." I don't know what that means. But whatever it means, how can you be cleared from involvement in a crime that was not acknowledged to occur?

I am cautiously optimistic that this gaslighting, disrespectful to Shannan, and far from offering the community protection and service will stop, and a robust murder investigation will move full speed ahead. I hope the progress continues even if there are personnel changes. Because I cant deal with the lying anymore, and I'm not even from a victims family. I can't even imagine how this has been for them.

I want to offer gratitude, stranger to stranger, to everyone named and anonymous who has come forward. In general, helpful witnesses have had some of their most personal experiences, which the whole world should not need to know, brought out for the sake of justice. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

MOO

 

[Ruminations]

I would think a solitary hunting trip happened more frequently. But we do have both Shannan Gilbert (no one seems to know how many were involved) and the swinger party with Karen Vergata, who seems to have been left alone with the Heuermann family, according to info at the press conference. From the things Shannan was saying, I'm curious to know if word of such parties might have been getting around on the SW circuit. IS there a SW circuit?

It is very disturbing that it seems this witness is revealing that the detective knew something bad was happening to the woman who was probably Karen Vergata.

Just like with Shannan, it's not one killer working alone.

MOO

 

[Baby baby Jane]

I'm not sure what he's been cleared of, but Suffolk PD are still claiming Shannan's death was accidental/no foul play. The second autopsy has already shown her death was definitely suspicious, so. JMO Hackett's involvement is still an open question.

I don’t think that Dr Baden said “definitely” - “could be consistent” & “potential cause” is not definitive. Careful misuse of wording gets a salacious headlines and opportunities to continue to appear in media as “fighting for” Justice.

“An autopsy proved inconclusive as far as Shannan Gilbert's cause of death. A private pathologist hired by the Gilbert family also found insufficient evidence to determine how she died. But the pathologist, the noted Michael Baden, who has been hired to do independent autopsies by George Floyd's family and others, did say Gilbert's remains showed signs that could be consistent with manual strangulation as a potential cause.”
Shannan’s body was exposed to Atlantic coast marsh conditions for 2 Summers, and one freezing Winter. Her remains were exposed to predation of mammals, birds, crabs, marsh creatures and insects, any of which could damage bones and/or cause the “drill” hole. Pathology test could not conclude presence of absence of drugs. Broken wing of hyoid not conclusive. Absence of “larynx” normal as it’s not bone. No one will ever prove, or disprove murder, hunting, accidental drowning from her remains …

In life, and death, SG has not gotten the care she needed (police, mental health, family & friends) and was and STILL used by others for attention, money, career spotlight (boyfriend, clients, JR, PH, media).

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

I'm not sure what he's been cleared of, but Suffolk PD are still claiming Shannan's death was accidental/no foul play. The second autopsy has already shown her death was definitely suspicious, so. JMO Hackett's involvement is still an open question.

And isn’t it likely the case, that if deemed ‘accidental/no foul play’, it is unlikely to be further investigated? And then as we see on many other cases, evidence disappears, witnesses age, and it goes quiet or ‘cold’, etc….

It is probably up in these threads, but has the Shannan Gilbert case been ‘officially’ closed? Or is that known?

At best from what has been disclosed publicly, seems a coroner would only be able to conclude not determined or undetermined as to cause of death. And I thought that meant a case could not be officially closed? I could well be wrong.

As my ex used to say about some other things, perhaps some ‘pencil whipping’ could be at play?
MOO

 

[Ruminations]

I don’t think that Dr Baden said “definitely” - “could be consistent” & “potential cause” is not definitive. Careful misuse of wording gets a salacious headlines and opportunities to continue to appear in media as “fighting for” Justice.

“An autopsy proved inconclusive as far as Shannan Gilbert's cause of death. A private pathologist hired by the Gilbert family also found insufficient evidence to determine how she died. But the pathologist, the noted Michael Baden, who has been hired to do independent autopsies by George Floyd's family and others, did say Gilbert's remains showed signs that could be consistent with manual strangulation as a potential cause.”
Shannan’s body was exposed to Atlantic coast marsh conditions for 2 Summers, and one freezing Winter. Her remains were exposed to predation of mammals, birds, crabs, marsh creatures and insects, any of which could damage bones and/or cause the “drill” hole. Pathology test could not conclude presence of absence of drugs. Broken wing of hyoid not conclusive. Absence of “larynx” normal as it’s not bone. No one will ever prove, or disprove murder, hunting, accidental drowning from her remains …

In life, and death, SG has not gotten the care she needed (police, mental health, family & friends) and was and STILL used by others for attention, money, career spotlight (boyfriend, clients, JR, PH, media).

Yes. It's like everyone used Shannan.

it seems to me like she had a very generous spirit.

Sigh. We need more givers, like her.