Gilgo Beach LISK Serial Killer, Rex Heuermann, charged with 3 murders, July 2023

[Baby baby Jane]

I'd be curious to know why JR felt it significant to mention that , in one picture, VH had her hair in a " neat little bun ".

Well, JR has worn his hair in a neat little ponytail … so, maybe for him there is some dishonesty-symbolism in neat little hair.

Sometimes a t-shirt is just a t-shirt, a bun is just a bun, a clay human form sculpture is just an art class assignment.
IMO.

 

[Ruminations]

You'd be shocked at how much info you can glean from by just ASKING people. Perhaps, he showed up and asked the manager. Plus, humans love to talk and gossip. Lots of info can be found by asking the right people the right questions.

Asking surrounded by witnesses eliminates the possibility there was a misunderstanding.

John Ray's staff found out the check in dates by asking, reasking, and making sure a small group of people heard the answer clearly.

MOO

 

[indicolite22]

Was she creating pornographic and gore artwork that was banned by Tumbler. Hard core fetish content.

She must have been the one looking through Rex's old book of graphic crime scenes at the kitchen table.

Didn't the WS owner state on yt yesterday that she owned that book? It is something that some true crime buffs might be interested in.

 

[Betty P]

Didn't the WS owner state on yt yesterday that she owned that book? It is something that some true crime buffs might be interested in.

I don't know, didn't watch. I think its the context of her reading the book at the kitchen table after all that has happened, as well as the artwork, clothing choices, etc. JMO She appears to be struggling.

A regular WS member owning that book is perceived differently than Rex H owning it.

 

[Just K]

I disagree in two ways.

First, while I can't say I enjoyed looking at the images, I am not sure I'd call them distasteful. I have no knowledge of what makes VH drawn to them. I would hazard a guess it is a symptom of her victimization. She could be repulsed by the images, and working to normalize them for herself to try to fit in. She could be processing her life, which is not a typical life.

I guess I do call her tee shirt choice distasteful, upon Rex's arrest. If she wears skeletons every day of her life, that was the day to turn the shirt inside out. But mostly, I don't think the problem is distaste.

The other way I disagree is that I certainly do think it is substantial.

The problem is how much the material contained references to the crime scene that we are learning more and more about. It means that in some way, VH knows something about the crimes. She is a witness.

Imagine if the truth turns out to be that her father accessed all of this images posing as his daughter. That seems unlikely, but it is possible, true? Then, she is a witness who can deny being behind the social media accounts. I think it is likely that VH has been on her own kind of investigation for years. She is a witness. Her interests in art that references crime scenes for crimes for which her father is accused makes that obvious.

In addition, just by living in that small house, it is very hard to imagine anybody not noticing anything at all...like, why does dad always scrub the bathroom when we are on vacation?

MOO

Or buy a new truck-same model different color. He did that a few times that we know of between 2000 and 2010. So for her ages 4-14.

 

[Forest_Wood]

Well, JR has worn his hair in a neat little ponytail … so, maybe for him there is some dishonesty-symbolism in neat little hair.

Sometimes a t-shirt is just a t-shirt, a bun is just a bun, a clay human form sculpture is just an art class assignment.
IMO.

And sometimes it’s not! MOO

 

[Not a Belle]

“Why can't LE just say calmly, "We are aware of VH social media activity, and we have followed or will follow any leads. Of course, we can't comment on an active investigation."? If that were the response, I might begin to think the were taking this information seriously.“

This is what I was responding to. If I misunderstood, I apologize. I think we both want justice for all of the victims. I haven’t had strong feelings about John Ray in any direction until now, and I appreciate his contributions to moving these cases forward. In this instance I believe he went too far and I don’t see him as credible at this point, which is my opinion only.

 

[Ruminations]

What evidence is there that potential witnesses have not been properly identified and questioned?

The night-time cab driver comes to mind.

She tried to tell the crime stoppers tip line about encountering Rex Heuermann and Shannan Gilbert in Long Island, among other relevant information about Rex Heuermann.

Crime stoppers would not call her back.

John Ray took her affadavit. Rodney Harrison took it as a moment to say, if you are not comfortable coming to LE, go to John Ray. (But this witness had been comfortable going to LE. They just wouldn't return her calls. This was stated publicly, and I am very certain she would have been contradicted in public if her claim of trying to reach LE were not true.)

MOO

 

[Ruminations]

“Why can't LE just say calmly, "We are aware of VH social media activity, and we have followed or will follow any leads. Of course, we can't comment on an active investigation."? If that were the response, I might begin to think the were taking this information seriously.“

This is what I was responding to. If I misunderstood, I apologize. I think we both want justice for all of the victims. I haven’t had strong feelings about John Ray in any direction until now, and I appreciate his contributions to moving these cases forward. In this instance I believe he went too far and I don’t see him as credible at this point, which is my opinion only.

FWIW, I don't agree with his inferences. If you don't agree with them, that is a point of agreement between us.

John Ray and I agree that VH knows something. He is more willing to assign a more participatory motive to her not sharing. He's going more "cover-up" than I would.

But he's fully entitled to his inferences. I'm entitled to mine. You're entitled to yours.

<modsnip>

The more information, the better the inferences, and the more different people's inferences will converge.

MOO

 

[NyxNY]

That’s from Hannibal
Season 1
View attachment 510043

Apéritif (2013)

Hannibal (2013)

www.imdb.com

Oddly I knew it was familiar, and that thought scared the hell out of me.

 

[Betty P]

No, because it's not normal, but yet there's at least one case of The Toybox Killer", David Parker Ray, who involved his wife, Cynthia Hendy, his daughter, Glenda Jean Ray, friends, and a business partner. So...it does happen, but extremely rare.
He committed violent sadiastic crimes from 1957–1999 until he was finally caught. His wife is free now, living in Kent, WA, and looks "normal."

David Parker Ray - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I started reading that story in a long form magazine article about the woman who escaped. By the time I got far enough into it, I wished I had never started reading. One of the most horrible crimes and situations ever, and his family thought it was no big deal. I think they actually thought these women deserved to be abused, as if it was punishment for taking drugs or being a sex worker.

 

[Teche]

I missed where a member of Shannon Gilbert’s family released a comment after John Ray’s press conference. I had no luck searching google. Can someone direct me to it?

 

[Just K]

I started reading that story in a long form magazine article about the woman who escaped. By the time I got far enough into it, I wished I had never started reading. One of the most horrible crimes and situations ever, and his family thought it was no big deal. I think they actually thought these women deserved to be abused, as if it was punishment for taking drugs or being a sex worker.

I have to admit, since 7/13/23, I’ve felt that may be the case with this family- specifically the husband and wife.

 

[Izzylizzy]

How would JR know if indeed VH erased/deleted other accounts she had on social media?

If she did delete accounts then why did she if she had images posted/liked etc and they were just normal gore that some teens are attracted to?

 

[Not a Belle]

How would JR know if indeed VH erased/deleted other accounts she had on social media?

If she did delete accounts then why did she if she had images posted/liked etc and they were just normal gore that some teens are attracted to?

I can’t speak for her, of course, but I’m guessing she hoped to preserve some privacy, and probably knew that people would pick apart anything they saw. There were people camping outside her house. I’m guessing she wanted some distance of some kind. JMO of course.

 

[x_files]

For that matter, tattoo artists and their human canvasses should all be considered as pretty suss. I personally know a LOT of people with gnarly tattoos and artwork. I don't know a single tattoo artist who doesn't have a skull in his/her portfolio.

The internet wasn't a "thing" when I was a kid. As an angsty teen struggling through feelings I couldn't understand and growing up in a small Vermont town, I did draw and write poetry that was pretty dark at times (think EAPoe on steroids). Once I had access to the internet, I would stumble across things while surfing the web and find myself on some very "questionable" sites out of pure morbid curiosity. I mean, the hype around the Faces of Death VHS tapes alone was huge, and I wanted to see what it was all about.

Suffice it to say, I've neither killed nor dined upon anyone to date. I was just a conflicted kid distracting myself from my own inner turmoil and trying to seek others who could relate.

I can't imagine that RH was an easy man to grow up with (based on feedback from his former colleagues in interviews), but maybe his parenting was deficient or demeaning in some way to VH. Could she have been traumatized in her childhood?

Or, could it just be that she's from a generation that sees the world around her crumbling (war, crime, doomscrolling)? It could be as simple as her having emotions she was struggling to deal with or work through—ultimately expressing them through art/art appreciation. From what I gathered during yesterday's presser, she didn't generate much of what Ray produced from her now-deleted Tumblr account but either liked or shared/posted the works of others that she resonated with. Of those art pieces she did create, as a woman and victim of sexual assault myself, I think many different interpretations could be made based on the life experiences of the person/people viewing.

Some of my own thoughts and opinions.

Skulls are commonplace in tattoo art but is a dismembered woman's torso common though?
There's a difference between cool, rock n' roll rebellious spooky art with skulls and torture porn. I think most people have seen pirate flags with skulls are no longer shocked by just a symbol of a skull and crossbones, but dismemberment is still extreme to the average person even artists.
I love horror films, art, and music and do not care if anyone chooses to wear alt. skull tees, but in the light of what her father is accused of, might be NOT the best choice of a tee to be seen in public.
Nothing is inherently wrong with a black tee shirt with a green skeleton but in context, it's a bit odd. The families of the victims see this.
It's possible VK is clueless and honestly thinks her Dad is innocent so wore the t-shirt not caring what anyone thinks. I'm not going to judge her solely on her t-shirt, or even her taste in subversive art.

 

[x_files]

If RH loved to regale people with gross stories about his hunting exploits (is he really talking about bears?!), then he might well be doing the same with his family ad nauseum.
If you grew up listening to that kind of banter (not the hunting itself, but delight in the aftermath) it might encourage and normalize an interest in such imagery, especially for the artistically inclined. imo, speculation, fwiw.

Gilgo Beach suspect Rex Heuermann reveled in recounting how he stalked, butchered animals: ‘Target in sight’

“More than once, he gleefully described the process of dressing the game, seeming to delight in grossing his employees out,” former underling Mary Shell said.

nypost.com

''Accused Gilgo Beach killer Rex Heuermann reveled in telling underlings how he stalked and butchered animals''

''Shell said co-workers “described how he gushed about his bear-hunting trips in particular: baiting an area and lying in wait.''

“More than once, he gleefully described the process of dressing the game, seeming to delight in grossing his employees out,” Shell wrote.''

I think Rex was describing his hunt for women but hid it as a more acceptable form of hunting. he is a sadist. Most hunters won't describe their hunts in detail when others are uncomfortable.

 

[Ursamajr]

The real objectification of women is seen in the sexualized, mutilated women produced by both the SK in real life and by his daughter in images. If you want to understand the artist, you have to look at his painting.

People seem to be forgetting. Victoria did not create any of the art that John Ray blew up and placed on poster boards. Not a single one. She follows accounts and those accounts have posted those images on their own pages. Example: I'm guessing some of you follow other crime threads on Websleuths? Imagine I were to hold you to opinions that another poster has posted in one of those threads and say "well, you follow that thread so therefor you must agree with that person". Of course not all of us agree with everything everyone else says and you might not have even seen every comment in all of those other threads you follow. No matter though. You must now be held accountable for all of it and it now reflects on you. That is what John Ray did yesterday. It doesn't look like VH has posted in over 4 years. The images he shared seem to be posted in the time since she publicly appears to have been last active. Do we even know she has seen that stuff? I don't. All we know is that she follows the accounts. A "follow" is not an endorsement.

The one piece of art that she created herself, John Ray kept to a small paper printout in his hand and didn't show it for long. VH left a disclaimer on that piece of artwork saying she painted it with inspiration from Francis Bacon. Francis Bacon is an artist that hangs in the MoMA, the Tate in London, museums in Vienna and all over the world. There are countless books on Francis Bacon. VH went to art school. As did I. I don't know what her classes were but I know that part of being classically trained includes studying classic artists and creating works in their style.

I can't help but feel slightly sad that John Ray, a man who fights tirelessly for a woman, Shannan Gilbert, who was thought so little of because of what she choose to do for a living, wants us all now to judge a woman on clothes she probably grabbed in haste as her vacated her hoarded house as it was being searched by police. There was a reason that the families of both Jessica Taylor and Shannan Gilbert made sure the public was aware they didn't stand with that presser yesterday. That says a lot to me. John Ray basically put them in a position where they very delicately had to almost align with their family members killer's daughter. That is a strange and unfortunate place to put them in.

I am still trying to figure out where John Ray was trying to lead us all with that presser. It just doesn't sit right with me. Not yet at least.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Didn't the WS owner state on yt yesterday that she owned that book? It is something that some true crime buffs might be interested in.

I also own a copy of that book. For me the interest was in the study of crime scenes. Is the book graphic ? Yes. Would I display it in a public place in my home ? Absolutely not. But in the end...a book is a book is a book, imo.

 

[kdsmith21]

The artwork is very disturbing
. I'm wondering if she had any similar fantasies to her father.
Most people do not act on those fantasies like Rex did. But would she at some point?
What if these are Rex accounts and he used his daughters name to create these accounts?
It's very eerie that the woman's breaststroke are mutilated on the photo and that what alot of the porn the detectives found that Rex liked and the victims had done to them. You can't deny the similarities.

And the table being used in the artwork to dismember the body? His notes mentioned a table and bracing the table

There's alot of similarities

But again, what if this was really Rex and not Victoria??