Gilgo Beach LISK Serial Killer, Rex Heuermann, charged with 3 murders, July 2023

[Izzylizzy]

Possible Victim: Fire Island Jane Doe, UP9098, found Davis Park Apr 1996 & Ocean Parkway Apr 2011 - Karen Vergata

Do they know or are they incompetent? Sadly, it could be either way with them.

www.websleuths.com

Long Island murder victim "Jane Doe No. 7" identified as Karen Vergata, 27 years after she went missing

Karen Vergata had been living in Manhattan before she disappeared around Feb. 14, 1996, officials said.

www.cbsnews.com

Thanks so much for finding the thread/post as it answered the question about the "soft tissue" timeline after death which makes around Feb 14,1996 a possibility.
The plastic that was wrapped around her legs and the cold weather would have slowed down the decomposition process.


"Decomposition can be heavily influenced by an enormous number of variables referred to as taphonomic factors. These factors can speed up or slow down the decomposition process. For example, heat and insect activity will speed up the process, while cold temperatures or wrapping a body in plastic will slow it down. For buried human bodies, the acidity or alkalinity of the soil is also an important factor influencing bone preservation. Other factors such as whether the body was burned (cremated), or deposited in water will also have an impact."

What happens to human bodies after death?

This article provides a brief overview of the decomposition process of human bodies after death

www.futurelearn.com

 

[Megnut]

How many times are you actually stopped by LE? Don't you think that once you've killed a time or two, maybe sweated bullets the first several times you've transported a victim, you become as comfortable with it as driving to the local store?

The few times I've been stopped: Driver's License checkpoint, speeding, temporary tag, LE has never had me pop the trunk. Once in the dark, they had a flashlight and saw my two dogs in the back. He could not see the temporary tag in the back window, then apologized for stopping me. Another, we had a packed station wagon returning from vacation and were stopped in the mountains because of an intense manhunt.

The percentage of trips in which I even came under any scrutiny is so miniscule that someone like RH seeming like a good citizen with his story ready and a locked cover on his truck was safe. From reports, people with tail lights out or some other preventable cause for stop should not be carrying drugs or running stop signs or giving anyone cause to stop and search. But the ordinary citizen? The odds of ever being stopped are almost non-existent.

I think the first few times would be nerve-racking, but after that? No, perhaps just part of the game.

Worth mentioning, some people don't feel fear. I'd wager that, where the average person feels fear, certain people feel thrill. Fear of being pulled over, thrill. All part of the game.

It's hard to fathom but bloodlust is real. What normal person could even IMAGINE doing these things? Fear of getting caught. Empathy. These were real women, with real lives, and that didn't matter to him. Spoils of the hunt.

If we peel away his day job (a means to support his true vocation), peel away his family (props in order to move freely about the community), peel away every day things like paying bills, getting gas, eating (adulting), you're left with the REAL RH. A serial killer. Sadistic. Power bender. The long game.

If he "feared" being caught, it wasn't in the real sense of fear, it wasn't IMO a fear of being held accountable, it was a fear of being STOPPED. He didn't want to stop. As recorded in his discovered notes, he was improving his technique. So he could continue doing what he loved. Sick, sick, sick.

And we've only seen one such list. 350+ devices. How many lists were on paper, long destroyed? How many, in computers, long since over-written?

Those poor women were fish in a barrel to him.

JMO

 

[Izzylizzy]

There is a WS dedicated to her as 9098 Jane Doe. Maybe you find what you need there. When remains were found, in a plastic garbage bag they were able to describe skin, scars in detail, fresh pedicure & polish. At the time, reports were looking for missing persons “missing 2 weeks prior”

Thank you!

 

[Izzylizzy]

There is something to learn about the sawdust. Apparently, it was tiny specks of wood per LE. According to the defense, it was mishandled and not available to be tested to even confirm that it was actually wood. There were also two different LE suspects. (!) One of them had wood chips in his car that were disposed of accidentally to make room for new evidence. (!) One of them had his ex-wife call in that she thought he killed one of the victims that Bittrolff was accused of at the time-now convicted. One of them had his investigation file about his being a suspect in the murder disposed of prematurely. (!)

I don't know which victim a police ex-wife had believed her husband had killed, nor do I know if that has ever been released. I also don't know which cop suspect is which-who had wood chips in his car-who had his investigation file thrown out...

One thing I can "clear" LE of is planting DNA. They collected it decades before they identified it. So, while there is some reason to explore the possibility that Suffolk police made the facts fit Bittrolff, there also is the really suspicious fact that his DNA was, amongst the DNA of other men, found on the victims. And Bittrolff apparently answered an interrogation question about purchasing sex like a true AH. Something like, "I don't have to pay; I get sex when I want it." (Not sure if the average SCPD interviewer would be as judgmental as I am about that answer.) While I dont remember the exact AH words, they made him seem strangely evasive for the seriousness of the charges. I would suggest saying nothing at all without a lawyer, but if the question were answered, I would say this would be a bad time to lie about sex which is contact that clearly leaves a trace, even in the 90's.

But the LE "expert" on the DNA evidence was dicey. They testified that the DNA was left within 1/2 hour of the murder. The public defender did not bring in their own expert, but apparently if they had, they would have said the sex was within 24 hours or slightly more of the murder.

I would love to see the actual testimony at the trial. SC keeps evidence close to their chest. I think it's possible that the similarities among the three murders Bittrolff was accused of are a bit over-stated. I guess that Bittrolff's DNA was not on Sandra. She sounds horrifically overkilled. But she may not have been raped with a p***s.


MOO

Before RH was charged with the murder of Sandra Castillo this was what JB's appeal was all about, info that was never given to the defense.
IIRC: The cop's wife's name,her husbands name and the wood chips cop's name were included.
Not sure if it was 2 cops or one cop,for the murder and wood chips.

"I don't know which victim a police ex-wife had believed her husband had killed, nor do I know if that has ever been released. I also don't know which cop suspect is which-who had wood chips in his car-who had his investigation file thrown out..."

 

[Ruminations]

How many times are you actually stopped by LE? Don't you think that once you've killed a time or two, maybe sweated bullets the first several times you've transported a victim, you become as comfortable with it as driving to the local store?

The few times I've been stopped: Driver's License checkpoint, speeding, temporary tag, LE has never had me pop the trunk. Once in the dark, they had a flashlight and saw my two dogs in the back. He could not see the temporary tag in the back window, then apologized for stopping me. Another, we had a packed station wagon returning from vacation and were stopped in the mountains because of an intense manhunt.

The percentage of trips in which I even came under any scrutiny is so miniscule that someone like RH seeming like a good citizen with his story ready and a locked cover on his truck was safe. From reports, people with tail lights out or some other preventable cause for stop should not be carrying drugs or running stop signs or giving anyone cause to stop and search. But the ordinary citizen? The odds of ever being stopped are almost non-existent.

I think the first few times would be nerve-racking, but after that? No, perhaps just part of the game.

Wow, I turn on all interior lights, open the rear windows partially if there is a dog or two in the back, and all the way if there are only humans or nobody. Of course lower the front windows entirely. Turn off the radio. Counsel any passengers to keep their hands in sight at all times, and tell them I'll do all talking. Tell police my dogs don't bite. Talk calmly. I'm in control, but terrified. I don't want them to interpret anything as my reaching for a gun or anyone else doing so.

I've probably been pulled over about 8 times- ticketed about 3? I'm not a baby anymore but I'm still really scared. I'm also perhaps not likely to go 55 on a clear dry straight highway, unless there are speed cameras, but I'm not reckless, either.

(BTW, speed cameras are not scary, and very effective on me. I came home to a photo album of my car in DC, paid a fine, and never sped there again. Locally, I get away with speeding 99.99999% of the time, and the terrifying possibility of getting pulled over is rarely a deterrent to my speeding along with the traffic. When I have gotten a ticket after the terror, I spend hundreds on a lawyer to avoid thousands in car insurance. My driving record is clean.)

MOO

 

[jessr927]

There is something to learn about the sawdust. Apparently, it was tiny specks of wood per LE. According to the defense, it was mishandled and not available to be tested to even confirm that it was actually wood. There were also two different LE suspects. (!) One of them had wood chips in his car that were disposed of accidentally to make room for new evidence. (!) One of them had his ex-wife call in that she thought he killed one of the victims that Bittrolff was accused of at the time-now convicted. One of them had his investigation file about his being a suspect in the murder disposed of prematurely. (!)

I don't know which victim a police ex-wife had believed her husband had killed, nor do I know if that has ever been released. I also don't know which cop suspect is which-who had wood chips in his car-who had his investigation file thrown out...

One thing I can "clear" LE of is planting DNA. They collected it decades before they identified it. So, while there is some reason to explore the possibility that Suffolk police made the facts fit Bittrolff, there also is the really suspicious fact that his DNA was, amongst the DNA of other men, found on the victims. And Bittrolff apparently answered an interrogation question about purchasing sex like a true AH. Something like, "I don't have to pay; I get sex when I want it." (Not sure if the average SCPD interviewer would be as judgmental as I am about that answer.) While I dont remember the exact AH words, they made him seem strangely evasive for the seriousness of the charges. I would suggest saying nothing at all without a lawyer, but if the question were answered, I would say this would be a bad time to lie about sex which is contact that clearly leaves a trace, even in the 90's.

But the LE "expert" on the DNA evidence was dicey. They testified that the DNA was left within 1/2 hour of the murder. The public defender did not bring in their own expert, but apparently if they had, they would have said the sex was within 24 hours or slightly more of the murder.

I would love to see the actual testimony at the trial. SC keeps evidence close to their chest. I think it's possible that the similarities among the three murders Bittrolff was accused of are a bit over-stated. I guess that Bittrolff's DNA was not on Sandra. She sounds horrifically overkilled. But she may not have been raped with a p***s.


MOO

Officer, later Sgt, Mike Murphy had the wood chips in his police car that then disappeared. Officer Teddy Hart had the wife who suspected he was involved in the murder of either Rita or Colleen.

 

[jessr927]

Includes info on the wood chips re: Murphy

Trial begins for Manorville man accused in cold case killings - Riverhead News Review

John Bittrolff was arrested in 2014 and charged with two counts of second-degree murder in connection with the deaths of Rita Tangredi and Colleen McNamee.

riverheadnewsreview.timesreview.com

 

[jessr927]

Unfortunately I'm not a Newsday subscriber but part of the info on Teddy Hart can be seen here:

Two-time killer John Bittrolff, of Manorville, seeking new trial, court papers show

John Bittrolff is alleging prosecutors withheld an Internal Affairs Bureau file he argues would have aided his defense.

www.newsday.com

 

[snooptroop88]

On Karen Vergata's remains, I believe that's February and the cold water preserved the remains. Did RH actually go up to Fire Island or did the remains drift there? That's what I'm wondering. There was a fierce, fierce blizzard in NY that year, but it was in January. But Fire Island is supposed to be unbearably cold during the winter months. When the waters freeze over, they can't even operate the ferries. All these people that live there on Fire Island year-round stock up on supplies like "Life Below Zero." But I looked up NY weather for Feb and it doesn't at all look especially bad for that week in Feb 1996. (But it's usually worse on Fire Island, which is so open to the elements.) Mobility on the island for those who'd drive in is very, very limited. Still, I believe this is open and as far as I can see, accessible by vehicle:

Otis Pike Fire Island High Dune Wilderness​

Fire Island Wilderness - Fire Island National Seashore (U.S. National Park Service)

www.nps.gov

Wilderness Visitor Center - Fire Island National Seashore (U.S. National Park Service)

Wilderness Visitor Center

www.nps.gov

Fire Island: Otis Pike Wilderness

Fire Island: Otis Pike Wilderness is an out-and-back trail that provides a good opportunity to view wildlife located near Mastic Beach, New York.

www.theoutbound.com

Who'd be out there in February other than an SK?? Maybe a few adventurers. Depending on how he concealed remains, would anyone even catch on?

This trail for the Otis Pike Wilderness is very near to Mastic Beach, where John Bittrolff grew up. He went to William Floyd High School, Mastic Beach. I'm really, really starting to think it perhaps wasn't just RH. Not sure on anything at this point, but finding this pretty interesting.

Manorville Man Arrested for ’90s Murders Suspected in 3rd Cold Case

John Bittrolff was charged with the murders of Rita Tangredi-Beinlich and Colleen McNamee.

www.longislandpress.com

 

[Ruminations]

On Karen Vergata's remains, I believe that's February and the cold water preserved the remains. Did RH actually go up to Fire Island or did the remains drift there? That's what I'm wondering. There was a fierce, fierce blizzard in NY that year, but it was in January. But Fire Island is supposed to be unbearably cold during the winter months. When the waters freeze over, they can't even operate the ferries. All these people that live there on Fire Island year-round stock up on supplies like "Life Below Zero." But I looked up NY weather for Feb and it doesn't at all look especially bad for that week in Feb 1996. (But it's usually worse on Fire Island, which is so open to the elements.) Mobility on the island for those who'd drive in is very, very limited. Still, I believe this is open and as far as I can see, accessible by vehicle:

Otis Pike Fire Island High Dune Wilderness​

Fire Island Wilderness - Fire Island National Seashore (U.S. National Park Service)

www.nps.gov

Wilderness Visitor Center - Fire Island National Seashore (U.S. National Park Service)

Wilderness Visitor Center

www.nps.gov

Fire Island: Otis Pike Wilderness

Fire Island: Otis Pike Wilderness is an out-and-back trail that provides a good opportunity to view wildlife located near Mastic Beach, New York.

www.theoutbound.com

Who'd be out there in February other than an SK?? Maybe a few adventurers. Depending on how he concealed remains, would anyone even catch on?

This trail for the Otis Pike Wilderness is very near to Mastic Beach, where John Bittrolff grew up. He went to William Floyd High School, Mastic Beach. I'm really, really starting to think it perhaps wasn't just RH. Not sure on anything at this point, but finding this pretty interesting.

Manorville Man Arrested for ’90s Murders Suspected in 3rd Cold Case

John Bittrolff was charged with the murders of Rita Tangredi-Beinlich and Colleen McNamee.

www.longislandpress.com

So close to large bodies of water, temperatures are moderated by the ocean. (Less hot on summer, less cold in winter.) but the exposure to wind, storm swells, and the bad effect of the moderation being snow on mainland can be crippling ice on the island make them very vulnerable to weather, particularly wind, flooding and ice.

I guess it is possible Karen's legs were preserved by being frozen, but as a person with no forensic expertise, I can't comment on whether the difference between flash frozen remains and fresh remains would be obvious.

MOO

 

[CuriousCricket]

On other threads here on WS I always had the impression, it would be rather luck to not get stopped by police, so very risky to have a dead body in the car. My impression might be wrong. Idk, I'm living in another country.

I suspect it may depend on what area of the US you live in. I'm small town in a rural area, but have lived in two city locations and driven all over the country.

I've been driving since I was 15 (drivers ed in high school) and am now 75. The number of times I've been stopped can be counted on both hands with fingers left over. The only time I was requested to pop the trunk was at a border crossing with Canada. I, too, speed and have for many years. Only one ticket.

So, for me, interaction with LE is almost always positive.

 

[CuriousCricket]

On Karen Vergata's remains, I believe that's February and the cold water preserved the remains. Did RH actually go up to Fire Island or did the remains drift there? That's what I'm wondering. There was a fierce, fierce blizzard in NY that year, but it was in January. But Fire Island is supposed to be unbearably cold during the winter months. When the waters freeze over, they can't even operate the ferries. All these people that live there on Fire Island year-round stock up on supplies like "Life Below Zero." But I looked up NY weather for Feb and it doesn't at all look especially bad for that week in Feb 1996. (But it's usually worse on Fire Island, which is so open to the elements.) Mobility on the island for those who'd drive in is very, very limited. Still, I believe this is open and as far as I can see, accessible by vehicle:

Otis Pike Fire Island High Dune Wilderness​

Fire Island Wilderness - Fire Island National Seashore (U.S. National Park Service)

www.nps.gov

Wilderness Visitor Center - Fire Island National Seashore (U.S. National Park Service)

Wilderness Visitor Center

www.nps.gov

Fire Island: Otis Pike Wilderness

Fire Island: Otis Pike Wilderness is an out-and-back trail that provides a good opportunity to view wildlife located near Mastic Beach, New York.

www.theoutbound.com

Who'd be out there in February other than an SK?? Maybe a few adventurers. Depending on how he concealed remains, would anyone even catch on?

This trail for the Otis Pike Wilderness is very near to Mastic Beach, where John Bittrolff grew up. He went to William Floyd High School, Mastic Beach. I'm really, really starting to think it perhaps wasn't just RH. Not sure on anything at this point, but finding this pretty interesting.

Manorville Man Arrested for ’90s Murders Suspected in 3rd Cold Case

John Bittrolff was charged with the murders of Rita Tangredi-Beinlich and Colleen McNamee.

www.longislandpress.com

Can't help being curious . . . are you saying you are considering that perhaps JB and RH may have worked together some?

 

[snooptroop88]

Can't help being curious . . . are you saying you are considering that perhaps JB and RH may have worked together some?

Possibly. The same hand, the same twisted "vibe" runs through those three murders of SCostilla, CMcNamee, and RTangredi. But RH is charged on one and JB convicted of the other two. There has to be a tie-in somewhere. I mean like RH was stalking JB to frame him? And I mean, it's possible. But why stalk JB? RH would have to know JB's personal business to begin with to stalk him. If he knew JB's personal business, there's still some link/association between them.

RH was a very "hands on" type of guy in his architectural firm. He was out there with the construction crews "getting his hands dirty." JB was a carpenter.

So maybe. I'm one of the last you'll see looking for collusion on crimes of this magnitude, but at this point, even I'm wondering. And it frightens me to think about it because if you get two cooperating like that-- are they the only two? Or are there more?

 

[Forest_Wood]

RH was a very "hands on" type of guy in his architectural firm. He was out there with the construction crews "getting his hands dirty." JB was a carpenter.

They were both hunters also. Maybe they shot together at a range or hunted together at some point, and maybe while hunting, they shared "stories" about their experiences with sex workers and maybe RH researched and stalked JBs patterns like he did the SWs. And maybe RH set him up to take the rap for those dead SWs in the eastern range of LI. RH might have started out trying to frame other men (miss-leaders), and ended up changing his MO over time to suit his current circumstances.
MOO.

 

[james1962]

Possibly. The same hand, the same twisted "vibe" runs through those three murders of SCostilla, CMcNamee, and RTangredi. But RH is charged on one and JB convicted of the other two. There has to be a tie-in somewhere. I mean like RH was stalking JB to frame him? And I mean, it's possible. But why stalk JB? RH would have to know JB's personal business to begin with to stalk him. If he knew JB's personal business, there's still some link/association between them.

RH was a very "hands on" type of guy in his architectural firm. He was out there with the construction crews "getting his hands dirty." JB was a carpenter.

So maybe. I'm one of the last you'll see looking for collusion on crimes of this magnitude, but at this point, even I'm wondering. And it frightens me to think about it because if you get two cooperating like that-- are they the only two? Or are there more?

I am still of the thinking that it was a sex ring and yes I think the dirty cops were involve. My belief LE can't have just been so stupid to bungle the investigations so bad.

 

[Baby baby Jane]

So close to large bodies of water, temperatures are moderated by the ocean. (Less hot on summer, less cold in winter.) but the exposure to wind, storm swells, and the bad effect of the moderation being snow on mainland can be crippling ice on the island make them very vulnerable to weather, particularly wind, flooding and ice.

I guess it is possible Karen's legs were preserved by being frozen, but as a person with no forensic expertise, I can't comment on whether the difference between flash frozen remains and fresh remains would be obvious.

MOO

Also consider the plastic bag, floating, sinking, in the currents of the Great South Bay. How long would it retain the contents before breaking apart? The men who found it, walking looking for driftwood, ripped it open, saw toes, & secured it to shore by the “string” on the bag. Reports don’t say if it was normal garbage bag, lawn & leaf type bag, double bagged or heavy duty builders waste bag. Could the bag keep contents & keep preserved for 2 months given exposure to sea currents and winter elements?

By keeping the date of disappearance “open” from 14 Feb to 20 April, then can consider dates when a suspect could have done the crime. Isolate to 14 Feb, and suspect has an alibi for that day, that limits investigation & ability to tie to suspect.

 

[Ruminations]

On other threads here on WS I always had the impression, it would be rather luck to not get stopped by police, so very risky to have a dead body in the car. My impression might be wrong. Idk, I'm living in another country.

There are marked disparities for who gets stopped in the USA, but the disparities favor Rex H and John B.

MOO

 

[FromGermany1]

Possibly. The same hand, the same twisted "vibe" runs through those three murders of SCostilla, CMcNamee, and RTangredi. But RH is charged on one and JB convicted of the other two. There has to be a tie-in somewhere. I mean like RH was stalking JB to frame him? And I mean, it's possible. But why stalk JB? RH would have to know JB's personal business to begin with to stalk him. If he knew JB's personal business, there's still some link/association between them.

RH was a very "hands on" type of guy in his architectural firm. He was out there with the construction crews "getting his hands dirty." JB was a carpenter.

So maybe. I'm one of the last you'll see looking for collusion on crimes of this magnitude, but at this point, even I'm wondering. And it frightens me to think about it because if you get two cooperating like that-- are they the only two? Or are there more?

The SWs could have talked to RH. Certainly he knew ways to inquire about other clients. You know: knowledge means power. RH could have used his knowledge then to his advantage, when it suited him well. Family relationships, profession, education, property, owned buildings, hobbies - maybe, the girls knew a lot and weren't always discreet? Maybe, it was well worth an extra sum of money to RH. IMO

 

[Onlyguessing23]

Possibly. The same hand, the same twisted "vibe" runs through those three murders of SCostilla, CMcNamee, and RTangredi. But RH is charged on one and JB convicted of the other two. There has to be a tie-in somewhere. I mean like RH was stalking JB to frame him? And I mean, it's possible. But why stalk JB? RH would have to know JB's personal business to begin with to stalk him. If he knew JB's personal business, there's still some link/association between them.

RH was a very "hands on" type of guy in his architectural firm. He was out there with the construction crews "getting his hands dirty." JB was a carpenter.

So maybe. I'm one of the last you'll see looking for collusion on crimes of this magnitude, but at this point, even I'm wondering. And it frightens me to think about it because if you get two cooperating like that-- are they the only two? Or are there more?

And, remember, RH included Bittrolff in his many web searches.

Edited by me: Added images:

 

[CuriousCricket]

And, remember, RH included Bittrolff in his many web searches.

Wouldn't it be interesting to know the dates of the searches? Or do we? We know RH enjoyed games of scaring people, hunting, stalking . . . and from Amber, he was spiteful. So, if Bittrolff had "wronged" or cheated him in some way, I can see RH coming up with a plan.

The Golden State Killer Joseph DeAngelo, as a member of LE, recognized that DNA was dangerous to him, probably in the early 80s as he stopped killing in 1981, then in 1986 committed one more murder -- per Wikipedia. BTW, DeAngelo was mainly a rapist.

So, killers outside LE could have been learning that a little later. I can see RH thinking of the benefit of having a more likely suspect if DNA was ever used to solve a case. From memory, in those early days DNA was widely used to prove parentage from semen. At that time, the testing was only on 12, then 25, markers.

By the time Bittrolff came to the attention of LE, DNA understanding was considerably more advanced. However, IF RH wanted a fall guy for an early murder and if JB had angered him, I can see him stalking JB.

Apparently, after the early 1990s murders, RH changed his methods, using dismemberment to hide victims' identities and to make disposal easier. Later on, we know he moved to bagging his victims (the Gilgo 4) without dismembering them.

Does anyone else wonder if he had a close call that might have led him to decide to rig up a safe, more secure place in his home? I think he thought that a man in his position would never be suspected, so his home was a safe location.

Or perhaps he wanted an indoor location to experiment more and keep the victims alive longer. I think there were good and logical reasons for the changes in MO over the years.