Gilgo Beach LISK Serial Killer, Rex Heuermann, charged with 4 murders, July 2023 #10

[FromGermany1]

Good points. I had noticed the same about the dates of the murders. The times around holidays may have been opportune due to AE's travel, but also possibly beneficial for extra time off work for Rex H.

He seemed to be somewhat organized and methodical, averse to killing women during cold, inclement weather.

Maybe he killed in other regions during bad weather time?
Could he have waited for his family spending summer holidays each year? He had patience then! I would wonder.

Did his family spend other holiday times else where (fall, winter)?
Did RH spend times off work else where (visiting mother, brother, sister)?

 

[FromGermany1]

Who knows what might go on in RH's mind? Perhaps it's not US holidays, but say Norse holidays. or Druid. Your seeing ties to Medieval might suggest that, too. I see more and more mention of Norse in particular popping up. Maybe examine dates associated with those cultures.

MBB being wrapped/restrained with belts is difficult for me to find logical reasons for.

To me, the belts hint of:
an unprepared killer
maybe a new killer
restraints easily available in the setting; so was she killed in RH's home?

While I speculate RH is responsible for all the remains discovered along Ocean Parkway, why would someone go from being so careful to make victim identification more difficult to a scene that included a monogrammed family item? Something major would have changed for the killer. What was it?

Why did he sacrifice a belt of his grandpa or uncle?
First I wouldn't understand that and second: why was he so stupid to use a belt with monogram (as you said)?

 

[CuriousCricket]

Why did he sacrifice a belt of his grandpa or uncle?
First I wouldn't understand that and second: why was he so stupid to use a belt with monogram (as you said)?

Doesn't it seem he was utterly unprepared? That puzzles me.

One reason could be sheer complacency. He had been killing and using the same hiding place for so long, it felt utterly safe. No one ever looked there. No more need for dismemberment and/or destruction of tattoos.

But look at MBB compared to the other 3 Gilgo victims: She was wrapped in belts -- suggesting to me, they were easy to grab when RH unexpectedly needed restraints.

So why would he be caught off guard like that? Why did he not have supplies ready?

Also MBB was wrapped just in plastic. Just wrapped. The other 3 were in burlap bags.

I personally see the bags as Rex "problem solving" as he bragged he did in his job during one the videos that aired immediately after his arrest. So, what were the problems RH solved?

The three were restrained with tape (fortunately with hairs stuck to it). Preparation.

Burlap BAGS -- were these bags he had purchased ready made? or did he buy a big bolt of camo burlap material, then fashioned the bags around the victims -- using a staple gun or some other form of tie or connector? How exactly were the bags made?

Whatever problem he thought he solved with the bags, he certainly ended up protecting the evidence. YAY! If the bags were purchased as bags, currently they seem to sell 5-6 in a pack and either 60-inches or 72-inches long. So, what a dream if matching bags were found stored back somewhere at Rex's.

I'm thinking he may have made the bags himself. The reasons include: he could vary the size, but have the concealment advantages of a bag. If he had a big bolt of the duck blind camo burlap fabric, it could ride in the bed of the Avalanche for all his "avid duck hunting", and it could also be folded and draped over a body in matching bag so that it would be practically invisible if RH were involved in an accident or stopped by LE during transport.

I think the Avalanche made his hobby much easier for RH. I wonder if that's why he bought it, simply for the ease as he got older, or had he been injured? A yes to that question might explain so much: the purchase of the Avalanche so dismemberment was not required; the unexpected problem he appears to have had with restraining MBB.

You know, just the fact that he left the belts with her makes you wonder . . . was he too tired and weak to remove them as he relocated her as he HAD to do? He prob. had a deadline for relocating the remains and having the mess cleared away. He left a family monogram with a murdered body, for goodness sakes! That makes no sense, does it?

Complacency? Injury? Something else?

 

[Ruminations]

Good points. I had noticed the same about the dates of the murders. The times around holidays may have been opportune due to AE's travel, but also possibly beneficial for extra time off work for Rex H.

He seemed to be somewhat organized and methodical, averse to killing women during cold, inclement weather.

Sometimes the weather is more suitable to walking in front of a moving vehicle.

MOO

 

[CuriousCricket]

rbbm

Gilgo Beach Homicides: Three Victims Remain Unidentified

The unidentified Gilgo Beach homicide victims known as Asian male, Peaches, and Peaches’ about 2-year-old daughter are the three left for investigators to name following the identification of another victim, Fire Island Jane Doe.

www.longislandpress.com

''The remains of Peaches — a nickname given to her for the peach tattoo on her breast — were scattered in a fashion similar to Taylor, Mack and Vergata. Peaches’ dismembered torso was found in a bin at Hempstead Lake State Park on June 28, 1997.

Her skeletonized partial extremities were recovered near Jones Beach on April 11, 2011 — a week after the remains of her daughter and those of an Asian male were found the same day farther down the parkway.

A grouping of 4!!!!! --- Peaches (June 1997), Taylor (spring/summer 2000), Mack (September 2000 remains found) and Vergata (Valentine's Day 1996) last 3 beside each other, next to Peaches' baby. According to what we know, Peaches and her child are the two left farthest apart. Peaches at the opposite end of the line -- We've been told to look for another group of 4, including by Joel Rifkin. Interesting. Just caught this. And like the other foursome, Taylor and Mack within months of each other - similar to Waterman June 2010 and Costello Sept 2010 Look at those dates of Taylor and Mack & Waterman and Costello! Plus Shannan Gilbert was May 2010. Vergata seems to be the only one last seen in cold weather.

(sorry if everyone else is already aware of this. It's just new to me.)

 

[minazoe]

there is a simple explanation for the belts , it's called bind, torture, kill. mOO

 

[dotr]

Speculation, imo, fwiw..
Maybe the belt reminded him of something humiliating or scary and perhaps he was triggered somehow by this particular victim, got carried away and wrapped her up for what he expected, to be forever?
Or, he just had to leave his unique mark, distant ownership, like a novice carpenter writing his initials underneath the wood.

Serial Killers and Their Fathers

Mothers often get blamed for the development of violence in their offspring, but paternal belittling and abuse show up in backgrounds of several infamous serial killers.

www.psychologytoday.com

Katherine Ramsland Ph.D August 7, 2023
''A boyhood associate of Heuermann’s mentioned that he had a troubled relationship with his father, Ted, who died when Heuermann was 12. Again, we don’t know enough to speculate about the man’s level of influence, but research on paternal influence on kids at risk to become violent has been spotty''.

''More research is needed to identify negative paternal influence on boys becoming killers, especially those who engage in repetitive serial murder.''

Belting (beating) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Betty P]

A grouping of 4!!!!! --- Peaches (June 1997), Taylor (spring/summer 2000), Mack (September 2000 remains found) and Vergata (Valentine's Day 1996) last 3 beside each other, next to Peaches' baby. According to what we know, Peaches and her child are the two left farthest apart. Peaches at the opposite end of the line -- We've been told to look for another group of 4, including by Joel Rifkin. Interesting. Just caught this. And like the other foursome, Taylor and Mack within months of each other - similar to Waterman June 2010 and Costello Sept 2010 Look at those dates of Taylor and Mack & Waterman and Costello! Plus Shannan Gilbert was May 2010. Vergata seems to be the only one last seen in cold weather.

(sorry if everyone else is already aware of this. It's just new to me.)

If so, this puts him at the dump site in Manorville, NY. Some bodies were first left there, but as he began to feel like LE wasn't looking, he moved some of those Manorville remains to Gilgo Beach - so he could look across the water from his neighborhood and imagine them all there.

Also, was Shannan Gilbert placed at what he considered a new site - Oak Beach, across the road from Peaches, etc.? When Shannan went missing and police were called in, it must have scared Rex, caused him to stop killing, or at least leave bodies in other locations. It would be interesting to know how he reacted when all the bodies were found at Gilgo Beach.

With the witnesses that John Ray has helped to bring forward, the puzzle pieces start to fall into place.
In earlier years, around Manorville, the witness testimony of the woman cab driver who was called to a motel around Sayville, NY by Shannan, where Rex became violent. Same cab driver saw him in that area when another woman called a cab.

Rex Heuermann's 'violent behavior' displayed in bombshell witness statement

REX Heuermann, the Long Island Serial Killer suspect, displayed violent behavior, a witness has claimed. Heuermann was arrested in July after being linked to the deaths of three women whose re…

www.the-sun.com

I suppose we need a new map.

 

[iamshadow21]

A grouping of 4!!!!! --- Peaches (June 1997), Taylor (spring/summer 2000), Mack (September 2000 remains found) and Vergata (Valentine's Day 1996) last 3 beside each other, next to Peaches' baby. According to what we know, Peaches and her child are the two left farthest apart. Peaches at the opposite end of the line -- We've been told to look for another group of 4, including by Joel Rifkin. Interesting. Just caught this. And like the other foursome, Taylor and Mack within months of each other - similar to Waterman June 2010 and Costello Sept 2010 Look at those dates of Taylor and Mack & Waterman and Costello! Plus Shannan Gilbert was May 2010. Vergata seems to be the only one last seen in cold weather.

(sorry if everyone else is already aware of this. It's just new to me.)

I don't understand what you mean by 'last 3 beside each other, next to Peaches' baby'. The only one anywhere close to Toddler Doe was Valerie Mack. Jessica Taylor was over 1.4 miles away. Karen was even further, with her legs found on Fire Island and her skull on Jones Beach. That's not close at all.

MOO

 

[snooptroop88]

Totally agreed I want a new map. I might play around at some point and try to make one. And agreed on Peaches' baby placement, I've always seen VM as the one closest to her.

When I was looking at the chart, I started looking for groups of 3s and 4s, and maybe other info. I'm wondering if Asian Male was killed in 2005 because there is a victim in 2003, 2007, and then 2009. I'm wondering if the gap that skips over 2005 isn't the time frame for Asian Male. That would mean four victims with a pattern of "every two years" (Jessica Taylor, 2003; if Asian Male has the date 2005, then 2005; MBB 2007; MB 2009)

More 4s=
Four victims dismembered (Karen Vergata, Peaches, Valerie Mack, Jessica Taylor)

Four Adult Female Victims/Not Dismembered:

MBB, MB, MG, AC

3s=
-Three victims with burlap
-three victims who were not white female sex workers (based on info I can confirm online/might have to rework this point): Peaches, listed on NamUs as the only African American victim on Ocean Parkway; Peaches' baby; and Asian Male
-if you count SG, three victims in 2010

Also noting the fact that two victims' familes and/or friends were contacted by the SK (Melissa Barthelemy and Maureen Brainard-Barnes), and the calls were obscene, disgusting, and threatening

Also seeing really, really strong similarities to this SK and Richard Cottingham, and I see YouTubers mentioning RC and RH in the same breath sometimes. I watched Cottingham's detective interview and he said none of the NY sex workers would do anything without being paid first, so he would flash a wad of like $1,000, $1,200 to get them to agree. Then, he never paid them, which really is reminding me a lot of RH. I saw this in one newspaper article:

Woman noted she met RCottingham who pretended to befriend her in a bad situation and gave her a "wad of money and said he would take her to a bus terminal so she could return home. She told the jury that she came to New York after fighting with her boyfriend, and became involved in prostitution because she had no money. When she met Cottingham shortly after arriving in New York, 'He said he felt sorry for me and was going to help me get back home.' Cottingham said he'd leave her at bus depot in New Jersey because she was afraid to go to the closer Port Authority terminal in New York, she said. 'It was really nice. I finally found someone to help me,' she testified."

"But they stopped at a New Jersey motel room where Cottingham farced her to lie down, put a knife to her throat, hand- cuffed her and bit, raped and beat her, the witness said. When Cottingham began threatening her, 'I said it didn't have to be this way . . .We would just have a nice evening and everything would be O.K. He told me shut up.'"

 

[FromGermany1]

Speculation, imo, fwiw..
Maybe the belt reminded him of something humiliating or scary and perhaps he was triggered somehow by this particular victim, got carried away and wrapped her up for what he expected, to be forever?
Or, he just had to leave his unique mark, distant ownership, like a novice carpenter writing his initials underneath the wood.

Serial Killers and Their Fathers

Mothers often get blamed for the development of violence in their offspring, but paternal belittling and abuse show up in backgrounds of several infamous serial killers.

www.psychologytoday.com

Katherine Ramsland Ph.D August 7, 2023
''A boyhood associate of Heuermann’s mentioned that he had a troubled relationship with his father, Ted, who died when Heuermann was 12. Again, we don’t know enough to speculate about the man’s level of influence, but research on paternal influence on kids at risk to become violent has been spotty''.

''More research is needed to identify negative paternal influence on boys becoming killers, especially those who engage in repetitive serial murder.''

Belting (beating) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Today suddenly the 3 belts reminded me of "being beaten with a belt", which I mostly heard of being done by fathers. It would make sense to me, if RH during a violent process (murder) used tools, that had at some point caused himself harm.

 

[Betty P]

Totally agreed I want a new map. I might play around at some point and try to make one. And agreed on Peaches' baby placement, I've always seen VM as the one closest to her.

When I was looking at the chart, I started looking for groups of 3s and 4s, and maybe other info. I'm wondering if Asian Male was killed in 2005 because there is a victim in 2003, 2007, and then 2009. I'm wondering if the gap that skips over 2005 isn't the time frame for Asian Male. That would mean four victims with a pattern of "every two years" (Jessica Taylor, 2003; if Asian Male has the date 2005, then 2005; MBB 2007; MB 2009)

More 4s=
Four victims dismembered (Karen Vergata, Peaches, Valerie Mack, Jessica Taylor)

Four Adult Female Victims/Not Dismembered:

MBB, MB, MG, AC

3s=
-Three victims with burlap
-three victims who were not white female sex workers (based on info I can confirm online/might have to rework this point): Peaches, listed on NamUs as the only African American victim on Ocean Parkway; Peaches' baby; and Asian Male
-if you count SG, three victims in 2010

Also noting the fact that two victims' familes and/or friends were contacted by the SK (Melissa Barthelemy and Maureen Brainard-Barnes), and the calls were obscene, disgusting, and threatening

Also seeing really, really strong similarities to this SK and Richard Cottingham, and I see YouTubers mentioning RC and RH in the same breath sometimes. I watched Cottingham's detective interview and he said none of the NY sex workers would do anything without being paid first, so he would flash a wad of like $1,000, $1,200 to get them to agree. Then, he never paid them, which really is reminding me a lot of RH. I saw this in one newspaper article:

Woman noted she met RCottingham who pretended to befriend her in a bad situation and gave her a "wad of money and said he would take her to a bus terminal so she could return home. She told the jury that she came to New York after fighting with her boyfriend, and became involved in prostitution because she had no money. When she met Cottingham shortly after arriving in New York, 'He said he felt sorry for me and was going to help me get back home.' Cottingham said he'd leave her at bus depot in New Jersey because she was afraid to go to the closer Port Authority terminal in New York, she said. 'It was really nice. I finally found someone to help me,' she testified."

"But they stopped at a New Jersey motel room where Cottingham farced her to lie down, put a knife to her throat, hand- cuffed her and bit, raped and beat her, the witness said. When Cottingham began threatening her, 'I said it didn't have to be this way . . .We would just have a nice evening and everything would be O.K. He told me shut up.'"

Cottongham was a very sick, dangerous man, but he ran out of luck and got caught. I’m not sure about linking any of these serial killers, though. Some true crime blog also tries to link Cottingham to Rodney Alcala. IDK, why would serial killers hang out with each other?

As for Cottingham and Heuermann, Cottingham was arrested in 1980. Rex didn’t graduate high school until 1983.

In High School, Gilgo Beach Suspect Was an Angry Loner, Schoolmates Say (Published 2023)

People in Massapequa Park described him as awkward, solitary, and volatile. Though few knew him well, his presence pervaded a Berner High School reunion.

www.nytimes.com

New York City is a huge metro area with over 20 million people. Statistically speaking there are probably a few serial killers operating there at the same time and thousands of sex workers to prey upon. Scary to think about. As sex addicts, they weren’t about to spend a fortune on paying sex workers so they tried to find ways to rip them off.

JMO Heuermann is unique because he seemed to be somewhat social with his alleged activity in swingers clubs and groups.

 

[FromGermany1]

I suppose we need a new map.

If the murders of several SWs were years apart, but buried close to each other ( possibly in groups of 4), then RH probably himself needed something like a map of the whole area for coordinating the places. As an architect, it certainly was no problem to create a location plan for all his victims.

 

[snarast]

there is a simple explanation for the belts , it's called bind, torture, kill. mOO

I think the belt wrapped around her legs might just have looked that good to him. So he couldnt remove it. ”She looked good in ribbons”

And maybe its not a coincidence that he is leaving a mark on the first victim in the G4 and then continues with burials in ”the family plot”.

 

[Betty P]

If the murders of several SWs were years apart, but buried close to each other ( possibly in groups of 4), then RH probably himself needed something like a map of the whole area for coordinating the places. As an architect, it certainly was no problem to create a location plan for all his victims.

He also worked at Jones Beach during his college years, so he was familiar with all those beaches and Ocean Parkway. This was a place where he felt comfortable. He must have cruised around other remote spots on Long Island, probably as part of his hunting hobby.

 

[CuriousCricket]

I don't understand what you mean by 'last 3 beside each other, next to Peaches' baby'. The only one anywhere close to Toddler Doe was Valerie Mack. Jessica Taylor was over 1.4 miles away. Karen was even further, with her legs found on Fire Island and her skull on Jones Beach. That's not close at all.

MOO

I meant next in the line-up along Ocean Parkway. None of them were directly "beside" each other as rubbing shoulders. As I interpreted it and understood the map, Peaches' baby was at one end of the group of remains and some of Peaches' remains at the far end . . . now doesn't that raise more questions? Was Karen NOT on Gilgo at all? I thought some of her remains were?

 

[CuriousCricket]

If the murders of several SWs were years apart, but buried close to each other ( possibly in groups of 4), then RH probably himself needed something like a map of the whole area for coordinating the places. As an architect, it certainly was no problem to create a location plan for all his victims.

Yes, he must have kept up with exact placement, don't you think? I wonder at Peaches seemingly being on one end of the "row" there along Ocean Parkway and her baby on the opposite end. If not for Shannan Gilbert would he still be using them as endposts? Is that what he did? Was it purposeful?

 

[Betty P]

Next in the line-up along Ocean Parkway. None of them were directly "beside" each other as rubbing shoulders. As I interpreted it and understood the map, Peaches' baby was at one end of the group of remains and some of Peaches' remains at the far end . . . now doesn't that raise more questions? Was Karen NOT on Gilgo at all? I thought some of her remains were?

There is a map that shows the distance between them, but they weren’t shoulder to shoulder. Close enough to consider some of them in groups.

Gilgo Beach serial killings - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[iamshadow21]

I meant next in the line-up along Ocean Parkway. None of them were directly "beside" each other as rubbing shoulders. As I interpreted it and understood the map, Peaches' baby was at one end of the group of remains and some of Peaches' remains at the far end . . . now doesn't that raise more questions? Was Karen NOT on Gilgo at all? I thought some of her remains were?

Some of Peaches' remains and Karen's skull were found on Jones Beach. Next beach to the left of Gilgo. Gilgo is actually only a small part of that coast. Toddler Doe wasn't on Gilgo either. That section is Cedar Beach. Fire Island, where Karen's legs were, is further right still.

There are maps out there, some of which are more accurate than others, but I think the most comprehensive I've seen are on Reddit, and even still, one of those doesn't have the Fire Island location for Karen marked despite being wide enough in scope and showing her Jones Beach remains, so it isn't just that they don't count her. Many other maps from MSM haven't been updated with Karen, Valerie, and Jessica's names since their IDs. Despite being a bit older, the Suffolk County official map is great because it has distances marked and it's on a satellite photo that shows the land exactly, but it doesn't include the victims outside the boundaries, including all of Karen's remains, the Manorville remains, and all of Peaches' remains. Despite a few inaccuracies that I've found about the victims and being a bit out of date, Kolker's interactive map is great - except it doesn't work on mobile phones. You can only view it using a computer browser.

Basically, you have to google something like 'lisk victims map' and open a bunch of different ones in tabs and compare them. There's no one resource that covers everything easily and accurately and is also up to date.

MOO

 

[Betty P]

From Lost Girls web site

Lost Girls

The New York Times non-fiction best-selling book by Robert Kolker, published by HarperCollins, about the Gilgo Beach serial-killer case. A "true-crime masterpiece" (Slate), a haunting and humanizing chronicle of sex work in the 21st century, and a compelling true-life investigation of a se

lostgirlsbook.com

Some of these remains have since been identified. The ones at Jones Beach were Karen Vergata. Other UI remains at Gilgo Beach and Manorville were Valerie Mack, I believe.

Here's a Google Map of this area, including Massapequa Park, where Rex H lives.

Jones Beach to Manorville

www.google.com