Gilgo Beach LISK Serial Killer, Rex Heuermann, charged with 7 murders, July 2023 #15

[CuriousCricket]

Snipped: Melissa used to run scams on John’s. Different scams for different John’s.

Wonder if she ran a scam on RH? Amber did, remember?

Wonder if any of the other victims were known to run scams? Has that ever been mentioned?

LISK certainly seems to have been obsessed with Melissa. Not only did he call her sister, but he searched out the taxi driver and threatened her. His demanding the taxi driver take him to the woods may indicate he intended to harm her, don't you think? Fortunately, she had back up from her dispatcher. The fact that he could perhaps "be made" and may even have been recorded by the dispatcher (how could RH know otherwise?) and that she wasn't a sex worker may have saved her life.

Were any of Melissa's scams detailed?

 

[Mr.Dandy]

Wonder if she ran a scam on RH? Amber did, remember?

Wonder if any of the other victims were known to run scams? Has that ever been mentioned?

LISK certainly seems to have been obsessed with Melissa. Not only did he call her sister, but he searched out the taxi driver and threatened her. His demanding the taxi driver take him to the woods may indicate he intended to harm her, don't you think? Fortunately, she had back up from her dispatcher. The fact that he could perhaps "be made" and may even have been recorded by the dispatcher (how could RH know otherwise?) and that she wasn't a sex worker may have saved her life.

Were any of Melissa's scams detailed?

Yes. I included the scams part because of Amber. Melissa’s friend had told the stories of what they used to do. I don’t recall any specifics but I’ll go back and see and get back to you. It was only briefly mentioned but to me, that’s kind of a big deal. I was trying to watch “the killing season” because those same documentarians made a movie around the same time. But, as mentioned in the show, they cut parts of the movie down and put it into the show… but now it has very little LISK. Anyways, Melissa’s step dad was talking and he said if he knew her at all, he knows she would never go down without a fight and figured she probably pissed Rex off, thus the reason he called her sister.

 

[Mr.Dandy]

Wonder if she ran a scam on RH? Amber did, remember?

Wonder if any of the other victims were known to run scams? Has that ever been mentioned?

LISK certainly seems to have been obsessed with Melissa. Not only did he call her sister, but he searched out the taxi driver and threatened her. His demanding the taxi driver take him to the woods may indicate he intended to harm her, don't you think? Fortunately, she had back up from her dispatcher. The fact that he could perhaps "be made" and may even have been recorded by the dispatcher (how could RH know otherwise?) and that she wasn't a sex worker may have saved her life.

Were any of Melissa's scams detailed?

Ok. So the book says that coke was always a factor. So they would pretend to do coke but sweep it away or whatnot but they would want the guy to get really messed up because that would mean it could take them hours to perform, therefore, more money. Sometimes they’d get a guy too drunk so he wouldn’t notice that he was having sex with their hand. Another scam they would do together… one would steal a debit card while the other ran and got as much money as they could off of it. Sometimes the John would willingly give them their card, and naturally, they’d take all the money. This is directly from the book, I just kinda shortened it up.

 

[CuriousCricket]

Ok. So the book says that coke was always a factor. So they would pretend to do coke but sweep it away or whatnot but they would want the guy to get really messed up because that would mean it could take them hours to perform, therefore, more money. Sometimes they’d get a guy too drunk so he wouldn’t notice that he was having sex with their hand. Another scam they would do together… one would steal a debit card while the other ran and got as much money as they could off of it. Sometimes the John would willingly give them their card, and naturally, they’d take all the money. This is directly from the book, I just kinda shortened it up.

Thank you. Very interesting. From history, scamming or robbing Johns seems to have often been part of the sex working life. I'm thinking of Polly Nichols from the Jack the Ripper days, here. From today and the taxi driver's story, the woman she believed to be Melissa had apparently thwarted the John (shaped like RH) and called from the hotel bathroom. Since the John left first, then a terrified, crying Melissa (from memory) got into the cab, IF she had managed to "cheat" him, as Amber and her roommate did . . . well, our imaginations certainly fill in the blanks.

Perhaps she only thwarted him and his scary version of what he was entitled to from a sex worker. Wonder if that would have been enough to have enraged him?

We do wonder, though, don't we: of all the sws he encountered, why these victims?

 

[Mr.Dandy]

Thank you. Very interesting. From history, scamming or robbing Johns seems to have often been part of the sex working life. I'm thinking of Polly Nichols from the Jack the Ripper days, here. From today and the taxi driver's story, the woman she believed to be Melissa had apparently thwarted the John (shaped like RH) and called from the hotel bathroom. Since the John left first, then a terrified, crying Melissa (from memory) got into the cab, IF she had managed to "cheat" him, as Amber and her roommate did . . . well, our imaginations certainly fill in the blanks.

Perhaps she only thwarted him and his scary version of what he was entitled to from a sex worker. Wonder if that would have been enough to have enraged him?

We do wonder, though, don't we: of all the sws he encountered, why these victims?

There seems to be a type for sure…. But there is more to it than what we know. What if they all played scam games with Rex and Amber is the only one we definitively know about? Maybe they said something to him that he didn’t like? And of course, the big question, why did he change his MO and stop dismembering? Did he destroy the G4 tattoos? We will never know I’m sure.

 

[Warwick7]

There seems to be a type for sure…. But there is more to it than what we know. What if they all played scam games with Rex and Amber is the only one we definitively know about? Maybe they said something to him that he didn’t like? And of course, the big question, why did he change his MO and stop dismembering? Did he destroy the G4 tattoos? We will never know I’m sure.

True, there is alot I don't remember, and I walked away from these threads for my own mental health....but, I will say, Rex's way of operating in moo, is he always expected the upper hand on any victim.
Second, human nature, again moo, is as we get older and have less energy we stop doing things we used to. I believe this is what happto RH. His MO changed because he got older.

The simplest reason is usually the real reason.

 

[Mr.Dandy]

True, there is alot I don't remember, and I walked away from these threads for my own mental health....but, I will say, Rex's way of operating in moo, is he always expected the upper hand on any victim.
Second, human nature, again moo, is as we get older and have less energy we stop doing things we used to. I believe this is what happto RH. His MO changed because he got older.

The simplest reason is usually the real reason.

Very possible

 

[james.coff]

Thank you. Very interesting. From history, scamming or robbing Johns seems to have often been part of the sex working life. I'm thinking of Polly Nichols from the Jack the Ripper days, here. From today and the taxi driver's story, the woman she believed to be Melissa had apparently thwarted the John (shaped like RH) and called from the hotel bathroom. Since the John left first, then a terrified, crying Melissa (from memory) got into the cab, IF she had managed to "cheat" him, as Amber and her roommate did . . . well, our imaginations certainly fill in the blanks.

Perhaps she only thwarted him and his scary version of what he was entitled to from a sex worker. Wonder if that would have been enough to have enraged him?

We do wonder, though, don't we: of all the sws he encountered, why these victims?

Very excellent point! I remember reading through all the SCPD tips on Rita Tangredi and there were so many saying that she ripped off Johns...I never connected the data as a possible commonality to the industry, but that is certainly a valid idea to consider! WOW, TY for that comment!

 

[Mr.Dandy]

Very excellent point! I remember reading through all the SCPD tips on Rita Tangredi and there were so many saying that she ripped off Johns...I never connected the data as a possible commonality to the industry, but that is certainly a valid idea to consider! WOW, TY for that comment!

I didn’t know that about Rita Tangredi. Let me ask you …. Is it possible Bittrolff is innocent?

 

[bricker]

There seems to be a type for sure…. But there is more to it than what we know. What if they all played scam games with Rex and Amber is the only one we definitively know about? Maybe they said something to him that he didn’t like? And of course, the big question, why did he change his MO and stop dismembering? Did he destroy the G4 tattoos? We will never know I’m sure.

It's all much simpler than that. This guy was a sadist who got sexual pleasure from torturing women. He would have killed them regardless of any scams.

 

[Mr.Dandy]

It's all much simpler than that. This guy was a sadist who got sexual pleasure from torturing women. He would have killed them regardless of any scams.

But he didn’t kill them all. Question ultimately isn’t why but who?

 

[CuriousCricket]

True, there is alot I don't remember, and I walked away from these threads for my own mental health....but, I will say, Rex's way of operating in moo, is he always expected the upper hand on any victim.
Second, human nature, again moo, is as we get older and have less energy we stop doing things we used to. I believe this is what happto RH. His MO changed because he got older.

The simplest reason is usually the real reason.

So, perhaps if somehow someone got the upper hand on him, he had to show them? Perhaps each victim had in some way gotten the upper hand?

 

[sunspun]

Bittrolff has wanted them to look into his case again. There’s that if anything but I do think they have some damning DNA is his case.

But isn't it true that Bittrolff never denied that was his DNA found on those victims, but he claimed it was there because he had had sex with them before they were murdered by someone else? That would sure make him one of the unluckiest guys around, but isn't it a possibility nonetheless? I'm not aware of other evidence they had against him though, if there was any. I never followed his case closely, but I assume there was more than just his DNA on them.

 

[Mr.Dandy]

But isn't it true that Bittrolff never denied that was his DNA found on those victims, but he claimed it was there because he had had sex with them before they were murdered by someone else? That would sure make him one of the unluckiest guys around, but isn't it a possibility nonetheless? I'm not aware of other evidence they had against him though, if there was any. I never followed his case closely, but I assume there was more than just his DNA on them.

Yes that’s what I have read as well. Hmm it may need a deep dive. He could be the unluckiest man alive!

 

[snooptroop88]

But isn't it true that Bittrolff never denied that was his DNA found on those victims, but he claimed it was there because he had had sex with them before they were murdered by someone else? That would sure make him one of the unluckiest guys around, but isn't it a possibility nonetheless? I'm not aware of other evidence they had against him though, if there was any. I never followed his case closely, but I assume there was more than just his DNA on them.

RH has made creating bad luck his livelihood, though, so maybe JB really was that unlucky. Totally agreed on this.

The evidence I've always heard they used was the DNA and the woodchips. So the argument (to my understanding) was not just that JB happened to go to both of these murdered sex workers, but that he was a carpenter, explaining the wood chips/shavings. So in terms of totality of the evidence, I would think, they got the conviction. I would hope there was more to it as well because if that's the case, I mean... There was a compost heap right on an abandoned property extremely near where Sandra Costilla's body was recovered.

And nobody's going to like to admit a mistake on JB, so it's going to be an uphill battle for his attorneys. Also, there's still the lingering possibility of some association between RH and JB, imo. (Does anyone else think this is a possiblity?)

Is RH is really that meticulously and (for lack of a better word) creatively devious, that he'd be stalking not just workers, but clients? HK would seem like a huge red flag that yeah, he is. It seems like a logical extension from the HK "mindset" that he may have stalked both workers and other clients. BUT at the same time, wasn't he reckless? The hairs with the victims' remains. The murder of Amber with a witness to ID him. Am hoping LE will get it sorted out and get a good picture of how RH "operated" because I'd guess that will aid LE in identifying some of RH's other victims.

 

[Mr.Dandy]

So, perhaps if somehow someone got the upper hand on him, he had to show them? Perhaps each victim had in some way gotten the upper hand?

Running scams like Amber could very well be a possibility.

 

[Mr.Dandy]

RH has made creating bad luck his livelihood, though, so maybe JB really was that unlucky. Totally agreed on this.

The evidence I've always heard they used was the DNA and the woodchips. So the argument (to my understanding) was not just that JB happened to go to both of these murdered sex workers, but that he was a carpenter, explaining the wood chips/shavings. So in terms of totality of the evidence, I would think, they got the conviction. I would hope there was more to it as well because if that's the case, I mean... There was a compost heap right on an abandoned property extremely near where Sandra Costilla's body was recovered.

And nobody's going to like to admit a mistake on JB, so it's going to be an uphill battle for his attorneys. Also, there's still the lingering possibility of some association between RH and JB, imo. (Does anyone else think this is a possiblity?)

Is RH is really that meticulously and (for lack of a better word) creatively devious, that he'd be stalking not just workers, but clients? HK would seem like a huge red flag that yeah, he is. It seems like a logical extension from the HK "mindset" that he may have stalked both workers and other clients. BUT at the same time, wasn't he reckless? The hairs with the victims' remains. The murder of Amber with a witness to ID him. Am hoping LE will get it sorted out and get a good picture of how RH "operated" because I'd guess that will aid LE in identifying some of RH's other victims.

Someone saw him dump Jessica too… I mean, they didn’t see her but they saw his truck and knew it was a dark colored Chevy. He knew it too because he got rid of his truck. Yea. I’m puzzled how he got so much hair onto his victims… regardless of taking precautions.
I feel like he worked alone. Only because he’s taken such an “I’m completely innocent” approach to his defense. He’s not just pleading not guilty…. He’s really trying to sell it.

 

[sunspun]

Someone saw him dump Jessica too… I mean, they didn’t see her but they saw his truck and knew it was a dark colored Chevy. He knew it too because he got rid of his truck. Yea. I’m puzzled how he got so much hair onto his victims… regardless of taking precautions.
I feel like he worked alone. Only because he’s taken such an “I’m completely innocent” approach to his defense. He’s not just pleading not guilty…. He’s really trying to sell it.

Was every one of the hairs from a female family member of RH's, or were there also hairs from RH himself? I know it may just be because Rex has shorter hair than his wife or daughter, but it still seems odd to me that theirs was found, but not his. Or is that wrong, was his hair ever found as well?

If not, maybe it's because he wore a skullcap or bathing cap or hairnet of some sort each time. Ugh. He's scary enough as it is. Can you imagine him with a skullcap or something on his head too? Super creepy.

 

[iamshadow21]

Was every one of the hairs from a female family member of RH's, or were there also hairs from RH himself? I know it may just be because Rex has shorter hair than his wife or daughter, but it still seems odd to me that theirs was found, but not his. Or is that wrong, was his hair ever found as well?

If not, maybe it's because he wore a skullcap or bathing cap or hairnet of some sort each time. Ugh. He's scary enough as it is. Can you imagine him with a skullcap or something on his head too? Super creepy.

His hairs were found on Megan, Sandra, and Jessica.

https://npr.brightspotcdn.com/01/11/804664d84239aa23400cb6afb4d7/superseding-bail-application-6-6-2024.pdf

 

[Vaderman]

Was every one of the hairs from a female family member of RH's, or were there also hairs from RH himself? I know it may just be because Rex has shorter hair than his wife or daughter, but it still seems odd to me that theirs was found, but not his. Or is that wrong, was his hair ever found as well?

If not, maybe it's because he wore a skullcap or bathing cap or hairnet of some sort each time. Ugh. He's scary enough as it is. Can you imagine him with a skullcap or something on his head too? Super creepy.

I'm watching a YouTube dive on the recent charges and came here with this same exact thought. Why only his wife and daughter's hairs found on the victims and not his own?

Wearing a skullcap is a good theory. Meticulous planning to prevent his own DNA being discovered while overlooking the other clues he was leaving behind.