Gilgo Beach LISK Serial Killer, Rex Heuermann, charged with 7 murders, July 2023 #16

[sunshineray]

The Suffolk County District Attorney's Office declared Wednesday that it has completed its obligations to turn over evidence to the defense and is ready for trial in the case against alleged Gilgo Beach serial killer Rex A. Heuermann.

Prosecutors on Wednesday turned over to the defense a final computer drive that included a 723-page master inventory of evidence in the case and a list of more than 7,000 people, both law enforcement and civilians, who "may have evidence or information relevant" to the charges or potential defense, according to the certificate of compliance filed with the court.
The disclosure also contains a list of expert witnesses who may be called at trial, the filing states."The people further announce ... that we are ready for trial," reads the statement of readiness filed by Assistant District Attorney Michelle Haddad.

The defense now has 30 days to respond to discovery obligations under New York State law. Defense attorney Michael J. Brown, of Central Islip, previously said he intended to file additional pretrial motions once the prosecution certified its case.

Gilgo Beach killings: Murder case against accused serial killer is ready for trial, court paper says

"The people further announce ... that we are ready for trial," reads the statement of readiness filed by Assistant District Attorney Michelle Haddad.

www.newsday.com

Wow, 7,000 possible witnesses!

 

[minazoe]

7000 is insane

 

[cenazoic]

the defense has no objection to a trial in the county where victims were found and where presumably at least part of each violent crime was committed.

The NY Post's motives are obvious. But they got the story from someone, and THEIR motive is not obvious to me.

I think a good theory for the why, if one assumes RH’s defense team is behind it, is as you touch upon- it could poison the jury pool with pre-baked reasonable doubt.

maybe the items discovered are related to another killer from the area, and the defense leaked this discovery now (before the trial) in order to highlight the fact that he wasn’t the only one using those beaches as a dumping ground?

But as @CuriousCricket points out later in the thread, there were a number (really, a seemingly statistically unlikely concentration) of known serial killers in the vicinity at the right times.

Perhaps LE knows that if the public was aware of what LE actually knows there would be widespread panic.

This is a deliciously spine-tingling opener! Since later in this post you discuss the many SKs operating in the area, do you have any speculation on what that might be? To @AuDHD ‘s theory, there were so many SKs in this small corner of NY in the 80s-90s, do you think knowledge of another, previously unknown SK would cause ‘widespread panic’?

 

[Ruminations]

I think a good theory for the why, if one assumes RH’s defense team is behind it, is as you touch upon- it could poison the jury pool with pre-baked reasonable doubt.



But as @CuriousCricket points out later in the thread, there were a number (really, a seemingly statistically unlikely concentration) of known serial killers in the vicinity at the right times.



This is a deliciously spine-tingling opener! Since later in this post you discuss the many SKs operating in the area, do you have any speculation on what that might be? To @AuDHD ‘s theory, there were so many SKs in this small corner of NY in the 80s-90s, do you think knowledge of another, previously unknown SK would cause ‘widespread panic’?

I hadn't had any theory as to why somebody leaked it when leaked. My only theory is that the timing is not random, and the timing, and asking who would benefit at that time, is the only breadcrumb trail I can think to suggest. Overalk, I think the leak could put a cloud of extra suspicion on the defendant, not to mention put Rex in the news again in a creepy context. So, I cant see why the defense would want to leak it. They might have, but I can't think of a reason for them to have done so.

As for the high number of serial killers on Long Island, juxtaposed with a suggestion that the police might want to avoid worrying the public? Well, acting like you didn't want the public to know about inexplicable buried clothing is exactly the wrong thing to do if you want to calm the public. In my opinion, it suggests that one reason for the high number of serial killers in the area is that LE doesn't wish to investigate murders.

MOO

 

[minazoe]

there is a huge S&M culture on the east coast...I was told by someone once that it can become an all consuming addiction and
a person can become desensitized and need more and more violent interaction and fantasy and if the person is a sadist, then things can cross the line one day and that's when the S&M life turns very dark and very dangerous and the world of snuff and murder is just another doorway down the hall.
mOO

 

[AuDHD]

I think a good theory for the why, if one assumes RH’s defense team is behind it, is as you touch upon- it could poison the jury pool with pre-baked reasonable

oh for sure! that’s what i meant up thread, too! that keeping the existence of other known killers that were active in the area (and mostly now apprehended??) during that time in the news could serve to remind potential jurors that other killers could have *theoretically* been responsible for the deaths RH is being tried for, thereby tainting the jury pool.

just my opinion of course. Idk much about the jury selection process and how much knowledge of a case a potential juror could have before being dismissed from the jury pool. i’m sure it varies case by case.

 

[CuriousCricket]

But as @CuriousCricket points out later in the thread, there were a number (really, a seemingly statistically unlikely concentration) of known serial killers in the vicinity at the right times.

CuriousCricket said:
Perhaps LE knows that if the public was aware of what LE actually knows there would be widespread panic.

This is a deliciously spine-tingling opener! Since later in this post you discuss the many SKs operating in the area, do you have any speculation on what that might be? To @AuDHD ‘s theory, there were so many SKs in this small corner of NY in the 80s-90s, do you think knowledge of another, previously unknown SK would cause ‘widespread panic’?

I suggested the wish for LE to prevent public panic as a possible reason for the attempt to shut down discussion because of having read of that being done in other areas of the country and for various situations. Keeping a lid on something just to keep down panic appears to be a tactic used by certain authorities. Or as it is said and believed in high circles: "They (the public) believe what we tell them to believe."

My answer: maybe, maybe not.

I would not be surprised if there were other as yet unnamed SKs from that time. Only, maybe something more recent as well that might create the panic I mentioned. After RH's arrest, LE has announced the thorough investigation of ? is it 100 or 300 or something similar? unsolved cases. Perhaps there have been major discoveries.

When I typed that line, I was thinking of something much more current as a possibility. I was wondering if there's not one (or more) SKs that may be active - and unaccounced - now.

Since then, I've considered that public panic might not be the problem. Perhaps it is panic inside the powers that be.

James Burke comes to mind and his close relationship with Thomas Spota.

If I recall correctly, Burke became the fair-haired boy of Thomas Spota when Burke was a star witness against some teen age boys and a horrific child murder.

They were convicted, but their convictions later overturned or they had served so long they were released.

In light of Burke's later activity, I have wondered if Burke might have been responsible for that murder. Apparently, from one of the linked stories Burke's involvement was controversial even at the time. In my opinion there's no telling what JB might be responsible for. Just charging him, though, would be fairly simple.

So, perhaps the investigation has disclosed other prominent and influential people might have been involved in keeping that quiet?

OR PERHAPS, the investigation has disclosed enough to call into question more of the cases "closed" during that era. We know about John Bittrolff and the questions surrounding his conviction. Are all the cases worked by Burke and Spota tainted? Should they all be re-investigated and overturned?

If that is the conclusion LE is reluctantly coming to, then Suffolk County is facing a nightmare. Can you imagine all the lawsuits against the county that would bring? It might not be public panic that is the problem. Or maybe it is both. Makes me wonder what is really hidden in Suffolk County.

https://pix11.com/news/local-news/long-island/from-police-chief-to-perp-fbi-case-against-james-burke-isnt-over/

John Pius: How Did He Die? Who Killed Him?

John Pius, AKA Johnny, was once a young boy full of life and promise before an appalling crime suddenly brought his life to a sudden halt. In April 1979, he went missing for a night before his remains were discovered the next day. This tragic incident completely shocked the quiet suburban...

moviedelic.com

 

[FromGermany1]

CuriousCricket said:
Perhaps LE knows that if the public was aware of what LE actually knows there would be widespread panic.


I suggested the wish for LE to prevent public panic as a possible reason for the attempt to shut down discussion because of having read of that being done in other areas of the country and for various situations. Keeping a lid on something just to keep down panic appears to be a tactic used by certain authorities. Or as it is said and believed in high circles: "They (the public) believe what we tell them to believe."

My answer: maybe, maybe not.

I would not be surprised if there were other as yet unnamed SKs from that time. Only, maybe something more recent as well that might create the panic I mentioned. After RH's arrest, LE has announced the thorough investigation of ? is it 100 or 300 or something similar? unsolved cases. Perhaps there have been major discoveries.

When I typed that line, I was thinking of something much more current as a possibility. I was wondering if there's not one (or more) SKs that may be active - and unaccounced - now.

Since then, I've considered that public panic might not be the problem. Perhaps it is panic inside the powers that be.

James Burke comes to mind and his close relationship with Thomas Spota.

If I recall correctly, Burke became the fair-haired boy of Thomas Spota when Burke was a star witness against some teen age boys and a horrific child murder.

They were convicted, but their convictions later overturned or they had served so long they were released.

In light of Burke's later activity, I have wondered if Burke might have been responsible for that murder. Apparently, from one of the linked stories Burke's involvement was controversial even at the time. In my opinion there's no telling what JB might be responsible for. Just charging him, though, would be fairly simple.

So, perhaps the investigation has disclosed other prominent and influential people might have been involved in keeping that quiet?

OR PERHAPS, the investigation has disclosed enough to call into question more of the cases "closed" during that era. We know about John Bittrolff and the questions surrounding his conviction. Are all the cases worked by Burke and Spota tainted? Should they all be re-investigated and overturned?

If that is the conclusion LE is reluctantly coming to, then Suffolk County is facing a nightmare. Can you imagine all the lawsuits against the county that would bring? It might not be public panic that is the problem. Or maybe it is both. Makes me wonder what is really hidden in Suffolk County.

https://pix11.com/news/local-news/long-island/from-police-chief-to-perp-fbi-case-against-james-burke-isnt-over/

John Pius: How Did He Die? Who Killed Him?

John Pius, AKA Johnny, was once a young boy full of life and promise before an appalling crime suddenly brought his life to a sudden halt. In April 1979, he went missing for a night before his remains were discovered the next day. This tragic incident completely shocked the quiet suburban...

moviedelic.com

Which interest has the ex NY Mayor Giuliani, to keep this case pending (IF!!) and not condemn RH as the right SK? He had interest enough to visit the crime scene at RH's address.

 

[Betty P]

there is a huge S&M culture on the east coast...I was told by someone once that it can become an all consuming addiction and
a person can become desensitized and need more and more violent interaction and fantasy and if the person is a sadist, then things can cross the line one day and that's when the S&M life turns very dark and very dangerous and the world of snuff and murder is just another doorway down the hall.
mOO

As I've always believed with serial killers and similar sexual killers, a lot of it is the result of addiction to sex, beginning with an active fantasy life and increasing from there.

 

[CuriousCricket]

Which interest has the ex NY Mayor Giuliani, to keep this case pending (IF!!) and not condemn RH as the right SK? He had interest enough to visit the crime scene at RH's address.

At first glance, I saw Guiliani's showing up at the Heuermann home for a photo op as an old man with a new TV show to promote, so I cut him a lot of slack. Maybe that was all it was.

Then, when I learned that his long time best friend and employee, Msgr Alan Placa, was the next-door neighbor of Joseph Brewer in Oak Beach, my mind started going "Hmmmmm" . . . .

And I wonder . . .

Cops storm house of Joseph Brewer as families of missing women mourn their disappearances

Cops raided the Long Island home last night where a missing hooker was last seen, 3 miles from the sand dunes where the bodies of four women have been found. Investigators – who met with the …

www.nydailynews.com

 

[AuDHD]

At first glance, I saw Guiliani's showing up at the Heuermann home for a photo op as an old man with a new TV show to promote, so I cut him a lot of slack. Maybe that was all it was.

Then, when I learned that his long time best friend and employee, Msgr Alan Placa, was the next-door neighbor of Joseph Brewer in Oak Beach, my mind started going "Hmmmmm" . . . .

And I wonder . . .

Cops storm house of Joseph Brewer as families of missing women mourn their disappearances

Cops raided the Long Island home last night where a missing hooker was last seen, 3 miles from the sand dunes where the bodies of four women have been found. Investigators – who met with the …

www.nydailynews.com

ugh that article made me visibly cringe like 14 times— I really feel like the word “hooker” is disrespectful and dismissive. I doubt legitimate journalism outlets would use that word outside of quoting someone… “cop” is a bit too informal as well.

 

[sunshineray]

I think a good theory for the why, if one assumes RH’s defense team is behind it, is as you touch upon- it could poison the jury pool with pre-baked reasonable doubt.



But as @CuriousCricket points out later in the thread, there were a number (really, a seemingly statistically unlikely concentration) of known serial killers in the vicinity at the right times.



This is a deliciously spine-tingling opener! Since later in this post you discuss the many SKs operating in the area, do you have any speculation on what that might be? To @AuDHD ‘s theory, there were so many SKs in this small corner of NY in the 80s-90s, do you think knowledge of another, previously unknown SK would cause ‘widespread panic’?

And they're also looking into LISK's time in the Carolinas and Vegas...so some of these unsolved murders in other states could come back to LI. How many other SK's on East coast could be multi-state too? Just another question/aspect of all this that the defense may bring up. SODDI by lottery.

 

[TOMBISHOP]

At first glance, I saw Guiliani's showing up at the Heuermann home for a photo op as an old man with a new TV show to promote, so I cut him a lot of slack. Maybe that was all it was.

Then, when I learned that his long time best friend and employee, Msgr Alan Placa, was the next-door neighbor of Joseph Brewer in Oak Beach, my mind started going "Hmmmmm" . . . .

And I wonder . . .

Cops storm house of Joseph Brewer as families of missing women mourn their disappearances

Cops raided the Long Island home last night where a missing hooker was last seen, 3 miles from the sand dunes where the bodies of four women have been found. Investigators – who met with the …

www.nydailynews.com

What you say is very interesting, I didn't know...
I continue to think that even though certain crimes were committed by a single individual, there was a circle of deviant people who knew each other well...

 

[CuriousCricket]

What you say is very interesting, I didn't know...
I continue to think that even though certain crimes were committed by a single individual, there was a circle of deviant people who knew each other well...

exactly. Murder is most likely a solitary "sport" but was it always? Did occasionally some of them work together? Do you wonder how many of the non-killers thought of certain people in the group when body parts were discovered? Did certain snipets of conversation come to mind?

In the book "Bloodstains" published by H.H. Holmes' great-great-grandson, I seem to recall Holmes writing in his diary something to the effect: "There is another one of us here" supposedly in London during the time of Jack the Ripper, even though the g-g-grandson tried to paint Holmes as the Ripper.

So, since multiple SKs were working at the same time, do you think they recognized there were others like them? Did they know who was doing what?

We have speculated about Bittrolff and RH knowing each other, perhaps working together, perhaps RH following and copying JB . . . . wonder if we'll ever know?

Because of my own recollections when something jogs my memory, I feel certain members of that group do recall conversations, incidents that made them wonder at the time. People who moved in that group surely have very unsettling memories, wouldn't you think? Wonder if any will ever be willing to talk "on the record"?

 

[Ruminations]

CuriousCricket said:
Perhaps LE knows that if the public was aware of what LE actually knows there would be widespread panic.


I suggested the wish for LE to prevent public panic as a possible reason for the attempt to shut down discussion because of having read of that being done in other areas of the country and for various situations. Keeping a lid on something just to keep down panic appears to be a tactic used by certain authorities. Or as it is said and believed in high circles: "They (the public) believe what we tell them to believe."

My answer: maybe, maybe not.

I would not be surprised if there were other as yet unnamed SKs from that time. Only, maybe something more recent as well that might create the panic I mentioned. After RH's arrest, LE has announced the thorough investigation of ? is it 100 or 300 or something similar? unsolved cases. Perhaps there have been major discoveries.

When I typed that line, I was thinking of something much more current as a possibility. I was wondering if there's not one (or more) SKs that may be active - and unaccounced - now.

Since then, I've considered that public panic might not be the problem. Perhaps it is panic inside the powers that be.

James Burke comes to mind and his close relationship with Thomas Spota.

If I recall correctly, Burke became the fair-haired boy of Thomas Spota when Burke was a star witness against some teen age boys and a horrific child murder.

They were convicted, but their convictions later overturned or they had served so long they were released.

In light of Burke's later activity, I have wondered if Burke might have been responsible for that murder. Apparently, from one of the linked stories Burke's involvement was controversial even at the time. In my opinion there's no telling what JB might be responsible for. Just charging him, though, would be fairly simple.

So, perhaps the investigation has disclosed other prominent and influential people might have been involved in keeping that quiet?

OR PERHAPS, the investigation has disclosed enough to call into question more of the cases "closed" during that era. We know about John Bittrolff and the questions surrounding his conviction. Are all the cases worked by Burke and Spota tainted? Should they all be re-investigated and overturned?

If that is the conclusion LE is reluctantly coming to, then Suffolk County is facing a nightmare. Can you imagine all the lawsuits against the county that would bring? It might not be public panic that is the problem. Or maybe it is both. Makes me wonder what is really hidden in Suffolk County.

https://pix11.com/news/local-news/long-island/from-police-chief-to-perp-fbi-case-against-james-burke-isnt-over/

John Pius: How Did He Die? Who Killed Him?

John Pius, AKA Johnny, was once a young boy full of life and promise before an appalling crime suddenly brought his life to a sudden halt. In April 1979, he went missing for a night before his remains were discovered the next day. This tragic incident completely shocked the quiet suburban...

moviedelic.com

You have nailed exactly why integrity in LE is an absolute must. If LE is incompetent or corrupt in a few cases, it calls into question all cases, even if the vast majority were handled competently and in good faith.


MOO

 

[Adrian33]

Woman says she went on two dates with Rex.

 

[snooptroop88]

exactly. Murder is most likely a solitary "sport" but was it always? Did occasionally some of them work together? Do you wonder how many of the non-killers thought of certain people in the group when body parts were discovered? Did certain snipets of conversation come to mind?

In the book "Bloodstains" published by H.H. Holmes' great-great-grandson, I seem to recall Holmes writing in his diary something to the effect: "There is another one of us here" supposedly in London during the time of Jack the Ripper, even though the g-g-grandson tried to paint Holmes as the Ripper.

So, since multiple SKs were working at the same time, do you think they recognized there were others like them? Did they know who was doing what?

We have speculated about Bittrolff and RH knowing each other, perhaps working together, perhaps RH following and copying JB . . . . wonder if we'll ever know?

Because of my own recollections when something jogs my memory, I feel certain members of that group do recall conversations, incidents that made them wonder at the time. People who moved in that group surely have very unsettling memories, wouldn't you think? Wonder if any will ever be willing to talk "on the record"?

I'm super glad you mentioned this because I had just been thinking about this same thing, honestly. I was looking up info on Robert Wayne Beckett Sr. who murdered a young woman back in the early 80s-- by getting his son involved, the son brought this poor woman out on a date to be murdered. AND this same killer was part of a murder-for-hire plot that involved not one, but two other men. So that's three actors aside from the perp aware of his activities, and involved in them to varying degrees. Then, I was reading about Royal Russell Long, suspected SK and convicted kidnapper. I've often wondered if he didn't have some assistance as well, but he's dead so we'll probably never know.

jmo, you're absolutely right to mention this. I tend to kind of move away from the idea of collusion. But-- it happens. And it's not "that" rare, really. Maybe it's only "rare" that one perp will rat out others. With Bittrolff, though, I'd be equally fearful he had nothing to do with it and spent years and years of his life incarcerated for crimes he didn't even commit.

Have always been alarmed by the matter-of-fact, conversational, "notes to self" qualities of HK. It's like he was used to dicussing matters with at least one other person. Too comfortable. (But jmo.)

 

[AuDHD]

I'm super glad you mentioned this because I had just been thinking about this same thing, honestly. I was looking up info on Robert Wayne Beckett Sr. who murdered a young woman back in the early 80s-- by getting his son involved, the son brought this poor woman out on a date to be murdered. AND this same killer was part of a murder-for-hire plot that involved not one, but two other men. So that's three actors aside from the perp aware of his activities, and involved in them to varying degrees. Then, I was reading about Royal Russell Long, suspected SK and convicted kidnapper. I've often wondered if he didn't have some assistance as well, but he's dead so we'll probably never know.

jmo, you're absolutely right to mention this. I tend to kind of move away from the idea of collusion. But-- it happens. And it's not "that" rare, really. Maybe it's only "rare" that one perp will rat out others. With Bittrolff, though, I'd be equally fearful he had nothing to do with it and spent years and years of his life incarcerated for crimes he didn't even commit.

Have always been alarmed by the matter-of-fact, conversational, "notes to self" qualities of HK. It's like he was used to dicussing matters with at least one other person. Too comfortable. (But jmo.)

I’m too sleepy to know what HK stands for here, but I agree in some cases more than one person is involved even in horrible circumstances like these….
I recently read about a terrible serial killer in new mexico who had a soundproofed trailer he called the “toy box” as he called it on his property where he held women for months at a time. His adult daughter, an ex girlfriend, and at least one friend of his were convicted accomplices who participated in rape of the victims or in the case of the daughter knowingly brought him victims from her college etc.
I am not sure that’s where evidence will lead in this case… but SG’s murder and 911 call do lend it weight, if it’s confirmed RH was involved in that one, which i’m not sure of.

 

[Betty P]

You have nailed exactly why integrity in LE is an absolute must. If LE is incompetent or corrupt in a few cases, it calls into question all cases, even if the vast majority were handled competently and in good faith.


MOO

This exactly. It doesn’t happen often, but when it does, cases should be reinvestigated.

It’s sad and wrong when elected officials feel the need to adopt the Good Ole Boys system of public management. Maybe they think it’s like typical corporate management style, but we have to demand higher standards from the democratic government systems that protect us and make our communities healthy.

 

[snarast]

Have always been alarmed by the matter-of-fact, conversational, "notes to self" qualities of HK. It's like he was used to dicussing matters with at least one other person. Too comfortable. (But jmo.)

Indeed. Indeeeed.