GK's convoluted theory... what's yours? Please share!

[zencompass]

All of the information I mentioned in my above posts were from reading other websleuths' posts. What I "discovered" on Mara Leveritt's sites was as a result of reading postings of other Websleuths. It just took me longer than most to "discover" what other Websleuths were talking about. It truly amazes me the time (years) and details you have all unearthed and analyzed on this site all towards finding true justice of this horrible crime.

 

[GoblinKeeper]

zencompass, so glad to have be a part of your discovery of the Mena murders and a possible connection to the WM3. At first I was sure they weren't in any way connected, but after a little bit of digging, and some encouragement from Compassionate Reader, I began to think along different lines and outside the box. What I've found is disturbing to say the least. Something else you might consider looking into is the documentary by Kelly Duda, Factor 8: The Arkansas Prison Blood Scandal. It's shocking, quite disruptive to the senses, and brings into focus who might be tied into all of these events, and more... don't say I didn't warn you!

Now, for everyone's dining and dancing pleasure, this week I hope to post on LGH Jr., and put up a post concerning the alibis of three young men (just some notes, not my usual type of post). It's basically some questions I feel should have been answered, but never were. LGH Jr., however, is going to be the timeline and alibi post... I hope you'll all bear with me as I get myself going this week, and hope you've all had a great weekend! Well, except for the hour ahead thing - I didn't like that one bit. Although the hour I lost was the one I was going to go to the gym, so I guess it wasn't all bad..... :laughing:

 

[Compassionate Reader]

Oh, GK! I think I lost the hour that I was going to clean out the fridge. Oh, well!

Now to the important stuff. Yes, zencompass, keep reading. Watch the doc GK recommended. If you can, read Mara Leveritt's book. I've hinted at the possible involvement before, but, as a former teacher, I know that knowledge gained by working it out yourself is stronger (and more vehemently defended) than knowledge supplied by another. That's why I always gave homework! That's where the real learning takes place. Read on! You'll soon see.

 

[GoblinKeeper]

At his own separate trial, Misskelley presented 12 alibi witnesses (including his own father) to attest that he was present at a disturbance at the Highland trailer park at 6:30 p.m. the evening of the murders and then drove to another town to attend a wrestling match at 7:30 p.m.

What are the chances that 12 people are going to provide an alibi that they know is false for someone accused of killing three little boys? Somewhere along the line, someone is going to blow the whistle and get everyone indicted for perjury, making matters worse.

And in West of Memphis specifically, Misskelley’s attorney Dan Stidham (who elsewhere in the film admits he did not do a “good job&#8221, summarily concludes that “looking through the juror’s notes, they hardly seemed to pay attention during the alibi portion of it.” Of course, in West of Memphis, Berg had access to a juror, but we never actually hear what she thought or what the jury discussed.

This is a major faux pas, as we could have learned first-hand just what went on in the jury deliberations. I blame this oversight on Berg, who failed in that regard. On the other hand, Stidham could have been more reactive (since he wasn’t pro-active, although to be fair, this was out of his league as a lawyer) in getting this information at the time of the appeals.

That is, what we are not told is that the testimony ended up being rife with inconsistencies indicating that the wrestling trip occurred on a different date. In rebuttal, the prosecution offered the testimony of the three officers who responded to the disturbance, none of whom recalled seeing Miskelley.

Why were they not asked if they specifically recalled seeing any of the other witnesses, or even to specifically recall any of the individuals there other than those who were involved in the fight? It is hard enough to concentrate on breaking up a fight, let alone trying to look around to see who might be able to become witnesses in case this goes to court.

In the interest of fairness, I have to ask, did Jessie inform the police during the time he was making statements that weren’t recorded that he was present at this time and was prevented by them from repeating this during his recorded “confession” or did this not come up until after the statements were made and Jessie was reminded of this by those who were there? We do not know, because there were approximately 4 hours of unrecorded interrogation. (And I do not buy into the 12-hour interrogation story; there is the testimony of JM Sr. as to when Jessie was picked up, when he returned to get permission for the polygraph, and then the recorded portion after he was told he failed the polygraph. Afterwards, he may have been held and under arrest, but the initial phase was not a 12-hour marathon session of interrogation as it has been made out to be, at least not to my reckoning.)

West of Memphis presents one of those girls (Jennifer Bearden) for the proposition that she was never given a chance to testify to Echols “alibi,” as she reads from a portion of a statement she made to police on September 10, 1993, indicating that she had been on the phone several times from after school through 9:30 p.m. on the night of the murders.

Wait. What? At the Misskelley trial, the prosecution stated that Damien was sighted on the South Service Road between the Blue Beacon Truck Wash and the Love’s Truck Stop between 9 and 10 pm, most likely between 9:30 – 9:40 pm. Now he’s on the telephone at 9:30 pm. It takes more time to wander from Broadway to that area than 10 minutes, unless you’re running. Plus, where was Domini supposed to be at the time he was on the phone with another girl? Just sitting there? I remember reading that she was extremely jealous of Damien even talking to another girl, so this is unlikely.

Another point to consider here is the TOD of the three boys. Originally considered to have happened between 6:30 and 8:00 pm, it has since shifted to between 1:00 and 5:00 am the following day (May 6, 1993). The prosecution is obviously trying to have it both ways; either it is one or the other. Either the three who were accused of this heinous crime were out committing it before 8 pm, or they got up really early to go back, avoid searchers, put the boys in the ditch, and get back home in time to get ready for the day (Jason, school; Damien, hanging out at Lakeshore; Jessie, working with his dad). Pick one or the other, please, so we can at least figure out how to answer the charge.

According to his alibi, supported by statements from Baldwin’s mother and uncle, Baldwin mowed his uncle’s lawn until approximately 6 p.m. on the evening of the murders, after which he went to Wal-Mart with a friend Ken Watkins. Baldwin’s brother stated that Baldwin returned home at approximately 7 p.m. accompanied by Watkins.

So how did Jason then return to the woods to help Damien and Jessie (who was afraid of Damien by his father’s admission) without being seen or heard? Given the distance it would have taken about 90 minutes to walk the approximately 5 miles and avoid traffic, using service roads to avoid the interstates. The latest time given for the early murder period is 8 pm. If Jason left right when he arrived home, that places him there 30 minutes after the boys are dead and the other two have left or are avoiding search parties out looking for the two boys. Those searchers obviously failed to notice the long-haired 16-year-old with the Metallica t-shirt as well…

Paul Ford’s failure to call anyone at all, to provide this information (I felt that if I was unable to establish an alibi, presenting an incomplete one was more detrimental than presenting one at all&#8230 did not work out as he may have thought it would. His client was basically condemned, as he had feared, through association with Damien Echols (who, truth be told, was the WM3's worst enemy, as well as his own). Inefficient counsel indeed.

That's it for now, I'm sure I will have more as I go along, but thanks for listening (reading), and I now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.

Source: http://aflixionado.com/the-west-memphis-three-documentaries/

 

[Graznik]

Oh dear, so much posting, yay!

A big thank you to GK for making sense of the Hollingsworth clan. I truly believe NH was FOS. There might be a small grain of truth somewhere in there, but it's damn near impossible to find. I definitely don't think she saw DE and DT on the service road, let along JB. None of it adds up. I'm not sure if she was trying to protect someone or not, be it LGHjr or AH (convicted sex offender http://www.jivepuppi.com/hollingsworth.html), or if she was after the reward money, but she sure had some kind of agenda. It would be interesting to know what she'd say about it all now.

CR, I can't believe it was Gitchell who knew the coat had been there for a while. How ODD. It might be a mistake on JMBs behalf, but still, odd. Consider was Zencompass mentioned about the spanish-speaking and what not. It's so hard to not start thinking about conspiracies!

Regarding JM and his interrogation, he was NOT interrogated for 12 hours. That's a common supporter mistake. Like you said, he was probably in police custody for that long, but not all of that was interrogation. The fact that all of it wasn't recorded makes it impossible to determine wether or not he presented his alibi or not. Off of the top of my head, I can't remember anyone ever stating he did so.

 

[GoblinKeeper]

Again, dear compatriots, I apologize for the length of this post and the following one. I hope I have done this subject justice and have helped to clear up a little bit of the confusion surrounding this person.

May 5, 1993 started out like any other day in West Memphis, Arkansas; by the end of the next day, three little boys would be found dead in a drainage ditch and a town would soon be gripped with a “Satanic panic” mentality. Timelines for most of the individuals involved in this horrid set of events on the day of May 5 can be readily established; several individuals’ timelines are questionable. Conjectures are strictly a matter of personal opinion; do not consider these as factual or anything more than speculation. The following paragraphs contain information gleaned from the various statements and reports about LGH Jr. This in no way should be considered an official statement of fact, although the statements are taken from official documents available at http://www.callahan.com associated with each individual noted. Any other sources used will also be noted. I apologize for the length and constant citation, but I am attempting to compose a coherent and viable timeline for all individuals connected in any way to this horrendous event. Please bear with me, and if anyone has anything to suggest, add, delete, edit, correct, whatever… please let me know so it will be right! Thank you so much in advance for your help and patience, it is very much appreciated.

LGH Jr., man of mystery

LGHJr. is one of the mysteries of this case. Only 17 years old on May 5, 1993, his role in this whole sordid affair has been debated almost endlessly. Did he, as circumstantial evidence seems to indicate, help DWE dispose of incriminating evidence after the crime? NH claimed that LGHJr. was at the Laundromat where DH worked at approximately 9:30 pm May 5, 1993; on May 6, after the bodies had been recovered LGH Jr. claimed to have known what happened before anyone else did (http://callahan.8k.com/images/narlene/n_hollingsworth_notes.jpg, cf. http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/dixieh_report.html). Loosely related to DWE’s girlfriend at the time, DAT, LGHJr’s seems to have been friends with DWE and CJB.

Shortly after the murders, at the start of the investigation, juvenile parole officer Jerry Driver and his assistant Steve Jones were asked to provide detectives with a list of names of individuals they thought might be capable of such actions. Both provided lists (there are two undated lists to be found at Callahan’s: http://callahan.8k.com/images2/d_echols/list_of_names_1.jpg and http://callahan.8k.com/images2/d_echols/list_of_names_2.jpg). While DWE tops both lists, LGHJr. prominently figures on both as well. Others that appeared on the lists were CJB, DAT, and MF. All five suspects were questioned between May 7-10, 1993 (http://wm3truth.com/the-mystery-of-l-g-hollingsworth/).

A hearing held March 27, 2013 found the deceased (LGHJr. died in an automobile accident in 2001) named as one of the murderers by a pair of convicted rapists, BGD and BWS; they also named TWH, DJ and BL through the services of an attorney for PH, KS (http://www.westmemphisthreefacts.com/ cf. http://callahan.8k.com/pdf/b_stewart_affidavit.pdf, http://callahan.8k.com/pdf/b_guy_affidavit.pdf and http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/memphis3/suspectswm3.html).

Before taking a look at statements and reports concerning LGHJr’s alibi, there are a few more items of interest to examine.

LGHJr’s “Stinky Box” and Other Stories

According to his aunt NH, LGHJr. had in his possession on May 6, 1993, a “stinky box” that he warned several children not to look at, touch, or step on. This alleged box was about the size of a shoe box (http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/narleneh_statement.html). On May 10, 1993 an anonymous tip came in to the WMPD that LGHJr. had been seen at a laundromat cleaning clothing for DWE, who had a box which contained body parts (http://callahan.8k.com/images2/de_dt_lg_tip.jpg). On May 20, 1993 another tip (from Boone?) stated that DH (who worked at that Laundromat) had supposedly told someone else that two boys and a girl came in between 10:00 and 10:30 pm on May 5, 1993 and cleaned themselves and their clothing, which were muddy and bloody. It should be noted that DH reported being picked up by NH and family that night a few minutes before 10:00 pm when her shift ended (http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/dixieh_report.html). That renders this last tip somewhat suspect, as does the implication that it may have been people she knew by sight or was related to, yet never identified by name except for H family name. Perhaps she was trying to protect someone, but how would she know what had happened that anyone needed to be protected? (See http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/dixieh.html.) DH did state that when LGHJr. had been in the Laundromat that she believed he had on a white shirt and a tie (http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/dixieh_report.html).

On May 10, WMPD took a knife, a sheath and four pairs of shoes from LGHJr’s home (http://callahan.8k.com/images/lgh/lg_confiscated.jpg). They also appeared to have interviewed him on that date, according to documentation from RL to the defense teams. (However, this cannot be found at the Callahan site, so if someone knows where this information may be found, please let me know so I can cite it, and thank you.) A polygraph was given but Callahan only gives one page of the report, with handwritten notes by detective BD, the most notable of which is the notation, D-I (deception indicated) #11 – says he suspects D(WE) (http://callahan.8k.com/images/lgh/holl_lg_poly.jpg). It would appear from the notes that the question referred to here would have been “Do you know who killed those three boys?” LGHJr. had answered in the negative; confronted with the suspicion that he was being deceptive might have led to the notation about suspecting D(WE), although that is purely a speculative statement. RS, who played some role in LGHJr’s life, appears to have told police that LGHJr. suspected DWE (http://callahan.8k.com/images2/r_simpson/r_simpson_polygraph_2.JPG).

[Interesting sidelight: When DWE was interrogated on May 10, 1993, LGHJr’s name came up. BR’s report (http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/dwe.html) states, “Damien stated that he knew LGH through Domini … He stated that LG was kind of weird in that on one occasion he wanted to trade girl friends with Damien for night.” DWE’s response to question #6, “Did you or do you know who did this?” (killed the three boys) mentioned LGHJr. as a possibility as well as a JB (not CJB, but JHB) (http://callahan.8k.com/images2/d_echols/d_echols_may10_answers.jpg).]

LGHJr. was said to have had personal conflicts with DWE, as attested to by KCW (an acquaintance of CJB, DWE and DAT) to BR of the WMPD in a statement (http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/kenw1.html). However, an article in the February 10, 1994 Memphis Commercial Appeal quoted LGHJr. as saying, “I think they got the wrong people. Damien he’s not that stupid.” (http://westmemphisthreediscussion.yuku.com/topic/2697#.VPYiMOF9XQI).

LGHJr. and RRS – An Alibi?

LGHJr. tried to set up an alibi using RRS when he was interviewed on 5/26/1993. Denying any knowledge of the murders, he said he at RRS’s house between the hours of 5:30 – 9:30 pm. At that time LGHJr. went home and got there just before his mother LH arrived at 10:00 pm. LGHJr. claimed to have phoned DAT and was discussing problems she and DWE were supposed to be experiencing (http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/lghreport.html).

On May 13, 1993, RRS authorized a search of his house and his yellow 1979 Ford LTD by Detectives BR and JS, but they did not find anything suspicious (http://callahan.8k.com/images2/r_simpson/r_simpson_search.JPG). The next day (May 14) RRS was interviewed and polygraphed and the reports given to BR (handwritten and typed) both indicate that RRS was truthful in answering the questions posed (http://callahan.8k.com/images2/r_simpson/r_simpson_polygraph_1.JPG and http://callahan.8k.com/images2/r_simpson/r_simpson_polygraph_2.JPG). On May 26, 1993, RRS was interviewed once more and subjected to another polygraph administered by BD, and focusing on where LGHJr. was on May 5th. Previous to the polygraph, RRS alibied LGHJr. and said he borrowed a white shirt and a tie, and he (RRS) drove him (LGHJr.) back home between 5:00 – 9:30 pm; notation at the bottom states that deception was indicated involving the date (http://callahan.8k.com/images2/r_simpson/r_simpson_polygraph_5.JPG). The polygraph questions page contain BD’s notes that RRS attempted to distort test results (http://callahan.8k.com/images2/r_simpson/r_simpson_polygraph_4.JPG). A handwritten statement taken on May 26, 1993 from RRS is a bit confusing. The first paragraph indicates that LGHJr. called RRS to come and get him, but that RRS did not, and was not with LGHJr. at that time. Further down in the statement RRS remembers the shirt and tie incident, and thinks that he drove LGHJr. home that evening “at about 9:30 PM that night” (http://callahan.8k.com/images2/r_simpson/r_simpson_statement.JPG). Which night is unclear from the format of this statement. Was it Wednesday, May 5th or Thursday, May 6th? BR does not clear up the question, but states that RRS was polygraphed concerning that incident.

According to RRS's new story, LGHJr. called RRS at 6:30 pm on May 5th asking for a ride, but RS refused. In the typed report from BR dated 05/27/1993 concerning the interview and polygraph of the day before (05/23), RRS still denied LGHJr’s presence at his home on May 5th, but that he wouldn’t argue if that was what LGHJr. claimed, although he didn’t remember it that way (http://callahan.8k.com/images2/r_simpson/r_simpson_report.JPG).

Continued in Part Two...

 

[GoblinKeeper]

LGHJr. and TC in the County Jail

TC, a convict at the county jail, shared a cell with LGHJr. in February 1994. He passed a note to jailers that accused LGHJr. of involvement in the triple homicide as a punishment for JMB over a drug deal that had gone bad. Allegedly, LGHJr. was the fourth person present during the murder; however it wasn’t made clear whether he took part in the murders or was a lookout for the murderers. TC offered to testify to this in court, if he was released on bond. JS interviewed TC at the jail, found nothing in his story to be substantial enough to stand up in court, and dismissed TC’s statement (http://callahan.8k.com/images/t_cotten/t_cotten_report_on_interview_01.jpg and http://callahan.8k.com/images/t_cotten/t_cotten_report_on_interview_02.jpg). When LGHJr. was interviewed after TC, he denied everything that had been said. He did, however, offer up a new story that he and DWE had a conversation before the murders where DWE asked him if he could kill someone, to which LGHJr. replied, not “unless they did something really bad to me” (http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/lg_3_8_94.html). He and DWE discussed killing someone as opposed to fighting them, the consequences of each action, and ways to hurt or kill someone (http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/lg_3_8_94.html).

Reviewing the Rumor Mill

It is fairly clear that LGHJr. was not present for the murders. If he had any involvement in this crime, it would have been after it was committed. Even then, there is only circumstantial evidence and unanswered questions in his wake.

Was there blood on LGHJr’s clothes on the evening of May 5, 1993? Why, if he did, did he go to the Laundromat where DH worked at approximately 9:30 pm May 5, 1993? Did he take bloody clothing from DWE, CJB, JLMJr., or anyone else to wash or dispose of there? Were the two boys and one girl supposedly sighted at the Laundromat that evening DWE, DAT and LGHJr.? (This seems highly unlikely, as DH never mentioned them being there, and since she knew DAT on sight, being related, surely she would have recognized the girl.)

Where exactly was LGHJr. on May 5, 1993 between the hours of 6:00 and 9:30 pm? His alleged alibi, RRS, started to corroborate his story, then recanted and was suspected of being asked to lie for LGHJr. If this was the case, why did LGHJr. ask him to lie? Did RRS suspect LGHJr. of something, and refuse to become party to it?

NH mentioned the “stinky box” that her children said LGHJr. had in a car he was driving, and that he didn’t want them around the box at all. Since the children said it was “stinky,” what could have been in that box? And where did LGHJr. get that box?

These are questions that need answers. Unfortunately, since LGHJr. has passed on, it is unlikely that we will get any answers from him. Or from anyone he may have told about any of these events/incidents/items, for fear of becoming an accomplice after the fact (which is pretty much not going to happen).

Finally

From all of those statements, it appears that there is some agreement, and yet some details are noted that others do not mention. Only TH mentions that LGH was in the car and he was the one who saw DT and DE on the Service Road. This statement contradicts those of the others in the car at that time. However, most agree on the fact that it was DT and DE, not DE and anyone else, such as JB or JM. Where LGH is concerned, there are various stories, both given by LGH and others such as RS, TC, BS and BG, a pair of convicted rapists probably trying to cut deals to lessen their time for an exchange of information, should it provide useful. Unfortunately for them, it seems as though their stories are neither able to be verified or disputed, as the subject is deceased (having been killed in an automobile accident in 2001).

 

[Ausgirl]

The polygraph questions page contain BD’s notes that RRS attempted to distort test results

I have always thought RRS himself an extremely suss individual and very probably a predator of some kind. Due to hinky behaviour in general/changing stories, but also, he just makes my skin crawl, that's pure gut speaking. Also his weird looking house guest, for no particularly logical reason. But there was something very 'off' there, says my usually reliable 6th sense.

I wish he and all his household at the time were looked into a bit more thoroughly.

 

[Compassionate Reader]

GK, All I'll say is thanks for the thorough synopsis, most especially for reviving the knowledge of two Jason Baldwins!

 

[Graznik]

I have always thought RRS himself an extremely suss individual and very probably a predator of some kind. Due to hinky behaviour in general/changing stories, but also, he just makes my skin crawl, that's pure gut speaking. Also his weird looking house guest, for no particularly logical reason. But there was something very 'off' there, says my usually reliable 6th sense.

I wish he and all his household at the time were looked into a bit more thoroughly.

I agree. It's a little odd for a grown man to have the kind of relationship with a teenage boy that he had with L.G.

Also, as always, great summary GK.

 

[GoblinKeeper]

I have always thought RRS himself an extremely suss individual and very probably a predator of some kind. Due to hinky behaviour in general/changing stories, but also, he just makes my skin crawl, that's pure gut speaking. Also his weird looking house guest, for no particularly logical reason. But there was something very 'off' there, says my usually reliable 6th sense.

I wish he and all his household at the time were looked into a bit more thoroughly.

IIRC, it was Compassionate Reader who first posited a pedophile ring in the WM area. I believe that TWH, JKM, RRS, OBJr., and at least one or more of the WMPD could have been members, actively recruiting younger males like LGHJr., BSL, CM, BH(?)and perhaps others. It is very possible that SB, and to a lesser extent, CB and/or MM might have experienced molestation at one point or another from one or more of these individuals. Is it likely (although one must consider the source of the testimony and the animosity toward TWH by his in-laws) that SB was being molested or abused at the hands of TWH and perhaps someone else? Considering the behavior of CB and MM according to testimony by SRC (his older brother, and a couple of his friends) behind Weaver Elementary School, and the suspicion of MB/JMB of possible molestation, that one or both boys had been "sexualized." This is a disgusting thought, but one that must be considered. Further investigation of RSS in light of his "involvement" with LGHJr., as well as his Hungarian architect "friend" should have been warranted, but once again, the ever-(in)competent cadre of cops dropped the ball. I trust in your 6th sense, Ausgirl, and believe it will serve us well in this quest for justice for three little boys and exoneration for three young men. Thank you for the reminder that these people should have been looked at more carefully than they were, especially in light of statements attributed to LGHJr., RSS, and JKM's extremely graphic and disgusting statement (confession?).

 

[GoblinKeeper]

GK, All I'll say is thanks for the thorough synopsis, most especially for reviving the knowledge of two Jason Baldwins!

Thank you, CR! It is one of the ironies of this case that I believe the JB JLMJr. was referring to was most likely NOT CJB, but JHB. He would have made much more sense as someone capable of murder than CJB, whose most heinous crime before this one he was unjustly accused of was possibly breaking car windows and shoplifting M&Ms (at least he had good taste in candy).

 

[GoblinKeeper]

I agree. It's a little odd for a grown man to have the kind of relationship with a teenage boy that he had with L.G.

Also, as always, great summary GK.

Thank you, Graznik! I also found it odd that he transported LGHJr. to Kentucky (IIRC) for a "date" with an underaged female, bought him alcohol, let him stay at his place, loaned him his vehicle, and introduced him around to other men that he knew. Sounds like CR's pedophile ring with a twist... I just have my suspicions about them both, and their "relationship" doesn't tend to make me any less suspicious that one or the other may have been involved in some way with the triple homicide... but I'm still investigating!

 

[zencompass]

I keep going back to Aaron's first statements about the boys hiding in their "clubhouse" and that they "saw five men" supposedly having sex, no one being a particular leader, mentioning one in a white t-shirt who Aaron may have been able to identify. Aaron was clear in that they were men and not teens. Unfortunately before Aaron was allowed to give detailed information about the five men, he was fed information that it was Jessie, Damien and Jason who were there and that they murdered the boys and that he witnessed this and got away.

He had already told the police that his mother would not let him go that Wednesday, he told of the boys asking the mother and she telling them that Aaron could not go. He told the police that the men must have spotted the boys spying on them and probably killed them. His initial statements were disregarded.

If only his mother was not trapped in the jaws of the police. If only she didn't tell the lies she and her son were fed about J, J and Damien. I do believe that the key to who did this is buried in Aaron's memories but after he was traumatized and his mind confused by what he was told to say, then true justice could not prevail. Collateral damage all around and so many people were traumatized just to follow the "satanic" line they were fed. I just feel that there were clues in what Aaron initially said in his "purer" statements before he was "told" what to say. The clubhouse for one, the five men, maybe the Spanish-speaking was something he made up as the story did get outrageous with exaggerations however what stands out to me the most is the "clubhouse", seeing five men having sex and smoking something they rolled and that he said that he thought they spotted the boys and killed them. Then I return to my "if only"s. JMO

 

[Graznik]

GK,
That was exactly what I was refering to. I am all for socialising accross "the generational borders", whether it be within a family or a community. But whatever relationship them two had, it wasn't that. He wasn't just uncle R, he showed no adult responsibility at all. The muddled up alibis are suspicious, but I'm not quite sure what to think case wise. It may just be another oddity.

Zen,
You've actually made me reconsider AH's statement. I've always written them off as complete BS and not worthy of any kind of consideration. But the way you put it has kind of made me realise there might be a small grain of truth in there somewhere, and that it might be worthy of consideration.

 

[GoblinKeeper]

I keep going back to Aaron's first statements about the boys hiding in their "clubhouse" and that they "saw five men" supposedly having sex, no one being a particular leader, mentioning one in a white t-shirt who Aaron may have been able to identify. Aaron was clear in that they were men and not teens. Unfortunately before Aaron was allowed to give detailed information about the five men, he was fed information that it was Jessie, Damien and Jason who were there and that they murdered the boys and that he witnessed this and got away.

He had already told the police that his mother would not let him go that Wednesday, he told of the boys asking the mother and she telling them that Aaron could not go. He told the police that the men must have spotted the boys spying on them and probably killed them. His initial statements were disregarded.

If only his mother was not trapped in the jaws of the police. If only she didn't tell the lies she and her son were fed about J, J and Damien. I do believe that the key to who did this is buried in Aaron's memories but after he was traumatized and his mind confused by what he was told to say, then true justice could not prevail. Collateral damage all around and so many people were traumatized just to follow the "satanic" line they were fed. I just feel that there were clues in what Aaron initially said in his "purer" statements before he was "told" what to say. The clubhouse for one, the five men, maybe the Spanish-speaking was something he made up as the story did get outrageous with exaggerations however what stands out to me the most is the "clubhouse", seeing five men having sex and smoking something they rolled and that he said that he thought they spotted the boys and killed them. Then I return to my "if only"s. JMO

I agree with you, zencompass... AH's first statements were likely closer to the truth than anything that came later, as DWE-tunnel vision took hold of law enforcement. The videos taken of the area clearly show boards laying on the ground, including some lattice type. Could those have been used by the boys as their "club house"? I still wonder about that to this day. It is only too sad that the area was destroyed and can no longer be investigated; all we have are photos, videos and a few reconstructions. I wish I had paid closer attention to that area when I was there. Hindsight is always 20-20, isn't it?

Since he was unable to go that day, as his mother said no to the request earlier (and all we have for that is their word, so we must be cautious here), just who was the fourth boy that a witness mentioned going into the Robin Hood woods? Could the WMPD and prosecution have been laying a foundation for calling AH as a possible witness at the E/B trial? No one else seemed to have seen a fourth boy; indeed, most saw only two, and CB was only mentioned by a couple or three witnesses as being with the other two that afternoon. This is something that needs closer attention as well.

VH... where to begin? Under scrutiny for a credit card problem at the truck stop where she worked (and was cleared by LE, then fired), she seems to have brought AH with her perhaps as an insurance policy. If things got too hot for her, she could always (and did) play the "my boy knows what happened" card. LE interest waned in her, and focused on him. His initial statements should be the most carefully studied, as the kernel of truth must be there; subsequent statements began to become so outrageous (to the point of him being forced to drink the boys' blood) as to be worthless. I still think you're onto something with the Spanish-speaking men, though, zencompass. Don't be so quick to dismiss that angle; for all we know, there was a contingent from western AR that dealt with WM LE and others in the net, and the boys accidentally stumbled onto that. As Compassionate Reader has said, there's many levels to this whole mess, and no telling who was involved, but it very well could have included politicians with greater ambitions...

Thanks for all the great information, speculation, and discoveries, zencompass, and keep on digging!!! I enjoy reading and speculating on your posts.

 

[Userid]

For what it's worth, the tree house was supposedly "high up" in the trees. VH (I believe) said that it was an old deer stand left abandoned by a hunter, and that you could kind of see it from the pipe bridge, even before you crossed and entered the immediate area; and if you go on Callahan's and look at some of the crime scene photos, you'll see investigators on ladders looking at certain trees -- they were looking to corroborate the tree house location. They never definitively corroborated it, but never denied it either -- since they did find strange markings (as if something had been nailed or drilled) high up in the trees, which quite possibly indicated that a structure was once there.

There was also a local on a WM3 message board a while back who claimed that the tree house "was huge," that it was high up in the trees, and that it was still there the day before the murder (the 5th).

Take it for what's it worth.

 

[Ausgirl]

Aaron has always reminded me of other 'Satanic Panic" kids, who made up incredibly elaborate stories about cult activity and pedo rings, which never actually existed. I don't think he or his mother would know the truth if they fell over it. And I think certain members of WMPD's Christmases all came at once when they realised they had a pair of malleable "witnesses" who'd back up whatever story they wanted to spin (for different reasons). As they demonstrably did.

So I can't buy into gays/pedos in the trees. Just can't do it.

 

[Cappuccino]

I completely agree with Ausgirl, I can't take anything either AH or VH said seriously. I think she used her son's connection to the victims to insert herself into this case for reasons of ego and greed, and in doing so she had a mischievous effect on the whole affair.

 

[Userid]

Well -- don't really know where I said anything about "gay pedos up in the trees" in my original post, at all -- but I guess people interpret posts in their own way sometimes.

I was specifically talking about the tree house, and only the tree house.

What we know about the tree house is the following:

A) That it did indeed exist, somewhere in Robin Hood (many people questioned acknowledged its existence -- not just AH and VH -- TH being one that I can think of off the top of my head).

B) That a tree house was never found when the entire woods (Devil's Den and BB Woods) were searched.

C) That markings were found high up in the trees by investigators.

I really don't think it's all that much of a stretch to imagine a tree house, actually up in a tree, but to each their own.

I agree -- AH and VH are unreliable and lied about a great many things, but this was somewhat corroborated by the markings.