Greece - Caroline Crouch, 20, Murdered, Athens, 11 May 2021 #2 *ARREST*

[Dotta]

Equally, if your hands were tied, you might try using your teeth to untie/bite through the string.

(But if only your nose is free from tape, that wouldn’t be possible)

His mouth was taped - he was mumbling in phone call to a neighbour

 

[Lola68]

I know I keep returning to this, but I don’t think anyone’s been to properly answer (sorry if I’ve missed it in an earlier thread).

Is Lydia being cared for by B or by someone else?

I appreciate he has not been named as a POI, but given AK’s comments about widening the scope of the investigation, if the baby is still with B, that to me speaks volumes about where this case is going - if there was even the slightest doubt the baby could be in danger, LE wouldn’t take the risk. B is also a key witness so surprised he’d not under police protection too, but they could be watching/guarding his house undercover JIMO

 

[Tortoise]

So... I was right - you must use your teeth. It means saliva on the string. And saliva is distinct DNA.

In the case of Rebecca Zahau (for which we have many threads at WS) LE concluded that she bound her own hands (and feet) before hanging herself. The family is exhausting all avenues to have the case reopened and re-classified as murder. In this video you will see the problems with the evidence but at 3:58 in the video you can watch why the family is challenging the narrative that Rebecca bound her own wrists by the location of the final knots.

 

[Dotta]

I know I keep returning to this, but I don’t think anyone’s been to properly answer (sorry if I’ve missed it in an earlier thread).

Is Lydia being cared for by B or by someone else?

I appreciate he has not been named as a POI, but given AK’s comments about widening the scope of the investigation, if the baby is still with B, that to me speaks volumes about where this case is going - if there was even the slightest doubt the baby could be in danger, LE wouldn’t take the risk. B is also a key witness so surprised he’d not under police protection too, but they could be watching/guarding his house undercover JIMO

I think the poor baby's whereabouts is a top secret - for her safety. I also think the best place for her (for the time being) is with her maternal granny because of striking resemblance between C and her mother. It might soothe the girl's longing for her Mommy. My heart breaks for sweet little Lydia.

 

[Patrick Jane]

The LE Brigadier's initials are AK, so I'll refer to him by that for convenience.

3:20 AK: In regard to the hypnotherapist, the "framing" of the (criminal) investigation must go everywhere. Literally everywhere. Because there are so many gaps . . . so many answers (to unanswered questions) are needed.
4:30 newsman: we had heard (news reports) of a struggle (between the victim and the alleged perpetrator), but no DNA was found on her nails. The crime scene is sparse of genetic material. AK: (correcting the newsman's characterization of the crime scene as "sparse") They say: "nonexistent." Nonexistent. At least that's what I've heard and if it's accurate. Crime scenes "speak", but this crime scene, however, is "speechless."
5:15 newsman: "experienced" robbers enter (to break in) but don't even have string or tape (to bind and restrain victims), and yet the only prints (implying fingerprints here I would think) belong to the husband. AK agrees that this is an issue.
5:30 AK: there's also an additional question from my perspective, "for what reason would robbers, who commit a robbery and a murder, take the memory cards from the cameras?" They (robbers who operate in the standard modus operandi of robbers) "grab them (the cameras) and go." Removing the memory cards is a time-consuming process. A robber does his damage (whatever damage he inflicts on the victims), and leaves. (implying a robber isn't going to sit around and take the time to remove memory cards from cameras).
6:20 newsman: Do you think that things might be different than the version of things that we've been getting from the crime editors (in the general media) AK: Yes, I believe so.
newsman: Don't tell us details. Are the investigations going in a different "framing" (of the case)? AK: The "framing" (of the case) has widened/broadened. newsman: widened in regard to persons? AK: To persons. That's my assessment/evaluation. I hope that I'm wrong.
7:40 AK: Another thing that made an impression on me was that from the hypothesis that they (the alleged perpetrators) found this money, once they were informed about it, BUT without there being any disarray in the space/environment (where it was located). This is very important and must be investigated. And besides that, there wasn't any general disarray in the rest of the house.
8:00 AK: And the most important: everyone who knows about dogs knows that when strangers enter into (a dog's territory) he'll raise/whip-up a fuss (and cause a commotion by barking). Here what happened? How'd they catch the dog? How'd they tie the dog? How'd they hang dog? And the next door neighbor lady heard nothing (no barking, etc.)?
8:30 newsman: answer me this one question, did CC defend herself or not? AK: if she defended herself there would be signs, but here we have no such signs. No scratches, no bruising of her skin*, no DNA on her nails.

*ecchymosis: a discoloration of the skin resulting from bleeding underneath, typically caused by bruising. (Oxford dictionary)

I'd like to add this part.

5:33 AK: (in regard to the memory cards being removed from the cameras) "as far as I know, this is the first time in Greece that this has ever happened"

 

[Dotta]

So...If I understood correctly (mind the mechanic translator , police connect 2 robberies (C and B house, another pilot house). And in these 2 cases there is the same perp (short, stocky and with "honey" coloured eyes) and whose mask fell off TWICE!

 

[tayaway]

So...If I understood correctly (mind the mechanic translator , police connect 2 robberies (C and B house, another pilot house). And in these 2 cases there is the same perp (short, stocky and with "honey" coloured eyes) and whose mask fell off TWICE!

No comment?

 

[Dotta]

No comment?

I have only 1 comment: Justice for Caroline!

 

[Frannie]

This is looking more and more obvious. Let’s hope that justice is not so corrupt in Greece that greasing the proper hands gets you off. Sitting on my hands. This should not go unpunished.

 

[Orgona]

So...If I understood correctly (mind the mechanic translator , police connect 2 robberies (C and B house, another pilot house). And in these 2 cases there is the same perp (short, stocky and with "honey" coloured eyes) and whose mask fell off TWICE!

Door NR 1 : The same gang really has been robbing both pilot’s house
Door NR 2 : Someone conveniently remembered to recite a story heard earlier from a colleague

 

[Lindsay Lou Who]

I know I keep returning to this, but I don’t think anyone’s been to properly answer (sorry if I’ve missed it in an earlier thread).

Is Lydia being cared for by B or by someone else?

I appreciate he has not been named as a POI, but given AK’s comments about widening the scope of the investigation, if the baby is still with B, that to me speaks volumes about where this case is going - if there was even the slightest doubt the baby could be in danger, LE wouldn’t take the risk. B is also a key witness so surprised he’d not under police protection too, but they could be watching/guarding his house undercover JIMO

From what I remember reading, Lydia returned home with her Father B after Caroline's funeral. But that was a a few weeks ago so maybe things have changed?

 

[Lindsay Lou Who]

Anyone else hoping that all evidence was gathered correctly from Caroline? Her funeral was very soon after her murder and with how the direction of the police investigation is changing I only hope that no evidence was initially missed or overlooked.

 

[Jenesaisquoi]

Is it thought that CC’s murder was the prime reason for events that night, or a spontaneous consequence?

 

[Winterbells]

Is it thought that CC’s murder was the prime reason for events that night, or a spontaneous consequence?

I'd say it depends on the identity of the murderer, which, in turn, might provide insight into the motive for her murder.

 

[everybodhi]

I know I keep returning to this, but I don’t think anyone’s been to properly answer (sorry if I’ve missed it in an earlier thread).

Is Lydia being cared for by B or by someone else?

I appreciate he has not been named as a POI, but given AK’s comments about widening the scope of the investigation, if the baby is still with B, that to me speaks volumes about where this case is going - if there was even the slightest doubt the baby could be in danger, LE wouldn’t take the risk. B is also a key witness so surprised he’d not under police protection too, but they could be watching/guarding his house undercover JIMO

Like in the Maya Millete case, many worry about the children being hurt before arrests are made, but they have no right to remove children from a home before they have gathered the evidence they need to prosecute someone.

 

[Patrick Jane]

Since the hypnotherapist is now a POI, I'm permitted to post this here.
This is a media interview with the "President of the Greek Psychological Association."

She says that the hypnotherapist has neither the university degree nor the professional license to practice which are required in order for her to declare herself a psychologist. Under Greek law these two requirements are needed to declare oneself as a psychologist. She talks with the newspersons about how a real psychologist is forbidden to go on TV and make disclosures about the confidential relationship between psychologist and patients, and reveal details about their life and the case. The newsman asks her if they intend to file a lawsuit against the hypnotherapist, and she says that they certainly will do so.

 

[tayaway]

Since the hypnotherapist is now a POI, I'm permitted to post this here.
This is a media interview with the "President of the Greek Psychological Association."

She says that the hypnotherapist has neither the university degree nor the professional license to practice which are required in order for her to declare herself a psychologist. Under Greek law these two requirements are needed to declare oneself as a psychologist. She talks with the newspersons about how a real psychologist is forbidden to go on TV and make disclosures about the confidential relationship between psychologist and patients, and reveal details about their life and the case. The newsman asks her if they intend to file a lawsuit against the hypnotherapist, and she says that they certainly will do so.

Finally! I've been chopping at the bit to get a translation of what she was saying!

 

[Patrick Jane]

Γλυκά Νερά: Νέα στοιχεία για την ταυτότητα του αρχηγού – Ο ξανθός που μισεί τις γυναίκες και ο «Γιάννης» - ΤΑ ΝΕΑ

 

[catchingdelivery]

Γλυκά Νερά: Νέα στοιχεία για την ταυτότητα του αρχηγού – Ο ξανθός που μισεί τις γυναίκες και ο «Γιάννης» - ΤΑ ΝΕΑ

My phone auto-translates this into English as;

Police are approaching one of the killers of the brutal robbery and murder of Caroline inside her house in Glyka Nera, while new facts are coming to light for the perpetrators of the heinous crime.

According to a STAR report, the police seem to have focused on a specific person, of Albanian origin, who is said to be the leader of the gang. Described as' blonde, short-haired, husky, around 1.70. "He hates women, whom he brutally abuses and does not even hesitate to commit crime."

"John"
There is also another person who is wanted by the police, listens to the name "John" and cooperates with the spiral.

The evidence also shows a shoe print on the small wall, right next to the window where the robbers broke in. It seems to be a shoe with tractors, like the ones used by climbers on ascents, especially elastic and light.

It is noted that the data are enough and there is the announcement of 300,000 euros, a very good incentive to open their mouths.

 

[catchingdelivery]

Continued..

The "carbon" robbery
The profile of the half-hearted perpetrator fits perfectly with what the trainer of the 32-year-old pilot testified, who fell victim to an identical robbery at his home in Alepochori three years ago.

"They are intimidated, they came to me at the fourteenth, summer, of July. They do not calculate anything. They are brutal and use their hands against women, who consider them weaker. They are brutal and half-hearted. I hope the Police find an end to this story and if there is anything in common with the case of the unfortunate Caroline, I will help too ".

"The leader looks awful in both cases and because he was not recognized by either me or Babi by the photos in the databases," said the pilot instructor, from whom the unfortunate Caroline's husband received his pilot's license.

He added: "Babis knew about the incident, when he heard his own characteristics, we talked to Babis again, we saw that the leader was suitable and I also talked to the Security. Unfortunately, his photo did not exist, otherwise we would have recognized him. Obviously not marked yet. They showed us 250 photos. "


I'm surprised B's pilot trainer has been allowed to disclose information that neither he or B could identify the alleged suspect from 250 photos. It just feels like Police would want to keep information like that to themselves. 250 photos also seems like a lot.
Maybe it's a tactic by Police to allow the media and public to form their own opinion and let the pressure mount? My thoughts only
(Edited to make myself clearer)