Greece - Caroline Crouch, 20, Murdered, Athens, 11 May 2021 #3 *ARREST*

[Lola68]

Guess I wasn't too far off the mark in the beginning when I said this case is one of those 'choose your own adventure' books. Today, I decided to turn to p18, in which we find the deceased lying prone on the kitchen floor with a knife in her back. The baby is sitting on top of her, the husband, nowhere to be found. It's completely different from yesterday's choice, where she was found in the laundry room, sprawled across the dryer, clearly suffocated with a lint sheet and a pair of socks. The baby was sleeping in the laundry sink with one of the cats. ...

Maybe it wasn't MSM getting it wrong - he was literally changing his story day by day to try to cover his tracks IMO

 

[TootsieFootsie]

He was trying to find a story that would look better for him.

 

[Dotta]

«Είχαν ένα παράξενο δέσιμο»: Όλα όσα κατέθεσε φίλη της Καρολάιν - Την είχε δει λίγο πριν την δολοφονία | in.gr
C's friend talking. It seems she had a tracker in her phone so B knew exactly where she was all the time.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

So he didn't care if everyone knew about something.
Sounds like an affair to me.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

So maybe he was cold to Caroline, but not so cold to someone else.

 

[Dotta]

So maybe he was cold to Caroline, but not so cold to someone else.

Or he wanted to make her jealous. Mind games.

 

[tayaway]

«Είχαν ένα παράξενο δέσιμο»: Όλα όσα κατέθεσε φίλη της Καρολάιν - Την είχε δει λίγο πριν την δολοφονία | in.gr
C's friend talking. It seems she had a tracker in her phone so B knew exactly where she was all the time.

But EM said C had no friends in the area aside from B, the baby, and the puppy. Oh wait, that was a different version from an eternity ago. Never mind.

 

[Dotta]

But EM said C had no friends in the area aside from B, the baby, and the puppy. Oh wait, that was a different version from an eternity ago. Never mind.

Never ever believe the charlatans! What I found interesting - C and friend went to a random place, a park, to have a girl talk. And surprise! Who came to meet them after a short time??? BINGO

 

[Legally Bland]

«Είχαν ένα παράξενο δέσιμο»: Όλα όσα κατέθεσε φίλη της Καρολάιν - Την είχε δει λίγο πριν την δολοφονία | in.gr
C's friend talking. It seems she had a tracker in her phone so B knew exactly where she was all the time.

It doesn't sound like C was seeing the 'psychologist' voluntarily. From the link:

One more thing I want to tell you is that Caroline went to a psychologist. In fact, she had told me many times that she did not like what the psychologist was telling her. She was a very dynamic girl and wanted to handle everything on her own. She was generally a girl with great confidence and believed that she could face and achieve everything.

 

[tayaway]

Never ever believe the charlatans! What I found interesting - C and friend went to a random place, a park, to have a girl talk. And surprise! Who came to meet them after a short time??? BINGO

Just like when she was in high school! He'd fly to the island to hang with her and her gfs! What a smothering - er... You know. What did her friend think of him showing up? Didn't she say it was a strange relationship?

 

[Patrick Jane]

AK: One member of the couple (would have to be referring to B, but not saying so explicitly presumably because the legal case is ongoing), was searching to find a house (to rent? to buy?) in Crete. That's not by chance (IMO implying the location of Souda is important and a clue), but must be investigated by the examining judge.
Newswoman: Are you saying there was an economic motive here?
AK: I don't know. (he then goes on to describe the sale of the plot of land, and the supposed cash in the house, which, he's implying, suggest there might be an economic motive, even though he's not explicitly saying it, again presumably for legal reasons, because the case is ongoing.)

 

[tayaway]

AK: One member of the couple (would have to be referring to B, but not saying so explicitly presumably because the legal case is ongoing), was searching to find a house (to rent? to buy?) in Crete. That's not by chance (IMO implying the location of Souda is important and a clue), but must be investigated by the examining judge.
Newswoman: Are you saying there was an economic motive here?
AK: I don't know. (he then goes on to describe the sale of the plot of land, and the supposed cash in the house, which, he's implying, suggest there might be an economic motive, even though he's not explicitly saying it, again presumably for legal reasons, because the case is ongoing.)

Ok, just to be clear here, as a couple, they bought the plot of land, and, B himself wanted to buy/rent an additional house in Crete? Where does a chopper pilot get that kind of money in the first place?

 

[Dotta]

Just like when she was in high school! He'd fly to the island to hang with her and her gfs! What a smothering - er... You know. What did her friend think of him showing up? Didn't she say it was a strange relationship?

Im beginning to think that both C and B were equally obssessed with each other - both addicted to this strange, love/hate, toxic and destructive "relationship". But it is only my hyphotesis. They were both struggling mentally.

 

[tayaway]

SDNA June 20 : Father of the year is chomping at the bit to get the court stuff done so he can do his time and get back to raising his daughter!

 

[Skigh]

Im beginning to think that both C and B were equally obssessed with each other - both addicted to this strange, love/hate, toxic and destructive "relationship". But it is only my hyphotesis. They were both struggling mentally.

No .I think C was used and manipulated. He was behind any mental anquish she suffered.

 

[caylee17799]

SDNA June 20 : Father of the year is chomping at the bit to get the court stuff done so he can do his time and get back to raising his daughter!

That's what happens when your justice system is a joke. He should rot in, but instead, he believes (and, unfortunately, rightfully so) that his sentence will be so short, that his child will still be a minor, when he gets out!

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Murder your wife, no big deal.

 

[Winterbells]

I get a feeling that he was gaslighting her. Some people can be so psychologically manipulative that they convince you that you are the problem. In the diary entries Caroline says 'I am not well' and that is what gaslighters do, convince you that you are mentally ill and also those around you that you're 'not normal'.

Caroline only mentions the ways in which she hurt Babis but nothing of what he did to her, because he's already convinced her that she's provoked him, is unstable and caused the fight with her hormones and episodes. Gaslighters tell their victims things like ‘You're very sick, I’m worried you may hurt the baby’ so in turn, you start to analyse yourself and feel that you are failing as a mother. They alter your perception of reality and will be very convincing after an argument, ‘you said this’ ‘you did that for no reason’, making you doubt your own recollection of things. You eventually end up actually feeling mentally ill because they have lied and manipulated you into thinking that you are ‘not right in the head’. You feel depressed and worthless because they have taken your self esteem, they tell you ‘you need mental help’.

They tell you ‘you’re paranoid’, they do something like set up cameras in the house to watch your every move when you ask why they tell you they are worried about your mental health and want to keep an eye on you just incase you hurt the baby, then play footage back to you later on with quick fire questions ‘who were you on the phone to then?’ ‘Where’s the baby whilst your doing that’ they pull at you until you doubt your abilities as a mother, wife and human being. You want to leave but they will tell you ‘I will win custody of the kids because you are mentally unstable’ you feel very trapped, isolated and useless, and are too ashamed to tell family or friends about what’s happening because you feel so embarrassed about your ‘behaviour’, because he has you convinced that you started the argument, that you were the irrational crazy abusive one and they will tell you a version of events that you’re sure never happened so convincingly that you doubt your own memory.

These people are very clever and dangerous, once they realise you are leaving them they will plan to kill you.

So eloquently put.
Plus, I think the reason they kill if you leave is that they know that once away from their spell, it starts to wear off and you'll re-enter reality and confide in others about their abusive behaviour. I think it's unbearable for them to have outsiders knowing about their behaviour - and that's why they isolate their victims. I think shame is a huge factor (not guilt). The perpetrator has shame and their victim too - possibly for ever loving their abuser, or continuing to feel love for them. The outside world never understands how complex these relationships are and thinks 'why did she put up with him?' or 'why didn't she just call the police?' etc.

 

[Patrick Jane]

Ok, just to be clear here, as a couple, they bought the plot of land, and, B himself wanted to buy/rent an additional house in Crete? Where does a chopper pilot get that kind of money in the first place?

There was a media report I posted that C didn't approve of the purchase of the plot of land, as it was in a very isolated area. And AK has a lot of questions about the purchase of the land. So I do not know that we can say yet that they bought the plot of land together.

As for the money, I have questions about B's job. I don't know much about helicopters. Maybe someone can help us on that. What is their range? I think you said it was a charter company he worked for? What else do we know? Descriptions of the company in reports I've seen in Greek media, translate as "the transit/transport business over foreign countries." Isn't it possible that B could have been making some helicopter flights "freelance" or "on the side" as part of a side business?

 

[Winterbells]

He might have been involved in sth dodgy - I agree. But I disagree that C's murder was part of shady business. The killing of Caroline was personal - the result of absolutely toxic relationship.

Yes, I think so too.
If she'd found his stash of whatever he was stashing, all he needed to do was threaten to kill her or the baby or the dog and that would keep her too scared to talk to the police, surely? And she'd know he meant it.